[BeerDog99]

I am the HERO (loser) in this hand....

The opponent was was playing tight for the 43 hands I saw.

What did I do wrong, how would you have played it?

I would love some constructive criticism/advice.

________________________________________ _______
Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50 USD)
9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: ElSheikh-PE ($50 in chips)
Seat 2: ShadoWKy ($50 in chips)
Seat 3: robthegr8 ($53.80 in chips)
Seat 4: hah0l ($58.75 in chips)
Seat 5: Nookx ($57.30 in chips)
Seat 6: Liegeson ($104.80 in chips)
Seat 7: Pablix77 ($14.25 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO ($46 in chips)
Seat 9: el rey448 ($42.30 in chips)
Nookx: posts small blind $0.25
Liegeson: posts big blind $0.50

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Kc Ks]
Pablix77: folds
HERO: raises $1.50 to $2
el rey448: folds
ElSheikh-PE: calls $2
ShadoWKy: folds
robthegr8: calls $2
hah0l: folds
Nookx: folds
Liegeson: folds

*** FLOP *** [5d Qc 4h]
HERO: bets $5.50
ElSheikh-PE: folds
robthegr8: calls $5.50

*** TURN *** [5d Qc 4h] [Kh]
HERO: bets $8.50
robthegr8: calls $8.50

*** RIVER *** [5d Qc 4h Kh] [6h]
HERO: bets $12.50
robthegr8: raises $25.30 to $37.80 and is all-in
HERO: calls $17.50 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($7.80) returned to robthegr8

*** SHOW DOWN ***
robthegr8: shows [3h 5h] (a flush, King high)
HERO: shows [Kc Ks] (three of a kind, Kings)
robthegr8 collected $91.75 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $94.75 | Rake $3
Board [5d Qc 4h Kh 6h]
Seat 1: ElSheikh-PE folded on the Flop
Seat 2: ShadoWKy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: robthegr8 showed [3h 5h] and won ($91.75) with a flush, King high
Seat 4: hah0l (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Nookx (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Liegeson (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: Pablix77 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: HERO showed [Kc Ks] and lost with three of a kind, Kings
Seat 9: el rey448 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
________________________________________ ________

[BGboothA]

Its tough....I can't say that I would have played it that much different than you did. However if you look back at your math, you priced him in to that flush draw.

Preflop there was 6.75 in the pot with three players.

Flop comes Rainbow, 4,5,Q. With your raise of 3x bb preflop, you can reasonably assume you have him beat or he has a set. There are no real other options at this point. Some would argue that he could be sitting on 67 suited or something.

You bet 5.50 or about 80% of the pot, you get one fold, and one call. Now the second he called I would have put him on a hand like AQ, KQ, or possibly a set of 4, set 5. Maybe a straight draw with the 45, but thats slim IMO.

Turn card come and its your K. Here is where one could argue that you made a mistake (although I have to say I would have played it similar I think). Your bet of 8.50 into a pot of 17.75 is only 47% of the pot. Giving him 3-1 pot odds to make the call, knowing that you are betting he can reasonably assume that the implied odds can include your remaining 30 as you are likely to go all in if he hits his flush or his 3. At this point he can assume he that he has 2 outs with the 5, 3 outs with the 3 and 9 outs with he flush. Totaling 14 outs, or roughly a 28% chance of hitting one of them. At this point he should have called your the to see the river. He is getting the right price, if you are looking at the implied odds here.

Now the shitty part comes when he hits his flush and you are screwed, at this point your pot committed with your remaining bankroll and there is nothing you can do to get rid of this hand after the river.

If you made a mistake you made a too small of a bet after you hit your trips. You gave him the right price to chase that flush on the river.

That being said, he played like a total donk preflop, flop and pre-turn. But he made the right call once he got to the post-turn and river.

My $0.02. Hindsight is always 20/20 and there is a good chance that many players would have lost that hand just they way you did.

[Pajda]

I would play it the same.
I hate that runner runner suck outs.

[Czu81]

I would play it the same.
I hate that runner runner suck outs.

not much u can do here... next time more luck!

[politicin]

turn shove is my play

[daneblazer]

Maybe bet sizing, but if he's truly playing tight (and if he's calling 35s Im not sure thats "tight") the only thing in his range you're losing to is AQh and maybe 67h. He isn't playing KQh or AKh because the Kh is on the board. If he's set mining and hit, you have him beat.

I think you need to reevaluate whether or not he's truly tight here because he's showing tendencies of a station. Is he limping in a lot of hands, calling raises, or raising PF? Many players who do a lot of calling pf tend to play passive post flop until they hit a hand, then put in a raise or spazz shove at the pot. I don't know if you're familiar with poker tracker or hold em manager's lines, but there is a huge difference between a 15/12 and a 15/1. They're playing the same amount of hands, but playing them completely differently. Is he capable of noticing how you've been playing and have you been opening with many types of hands? Would he float you on the flop on a dry board? These are things that are tough to tell with 40 something hands.

Now if the flop had two hearts and he spazzes at the river like that, you could lay it down. I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about this one.

[daneblazer]

You're missing a lot of value on the turn if you shove. If the villain has a draw, he needs to bet to extract value from that. Otherwise you probably aren't getting value from it unless the villain is a huge station.

[politicin]

Nope turn shove is the absolute best possible play in that spot

[FuzzyDunlop]

Villain is giving the appearance of playing tight when he isn't. Your early raise tips your hand to about 6-8 possible and he has position on you. Your primary concern post flop acting first is getting one of the two guys out, which you did. I would have checked the turn to him seeing has he has position to pick you off. Sell AQ and come over the top.

[BeerDog99]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the analysis.

I intentionally left out that I thought it was (as noted above) an AQ or 67s but even the 67 did not seem in his range. OBV hoping it was a big pocket pair that I cold decked but with his calling, I figured AQ trying to get to showdown cheaply. That is the reason for my smallish bet on the turn. I was totally shocked he showed up with a shitty backdoor flush draw so I was not trying to protect against this.

One other piece of information is that he only played 5 (with only 2 raises ) of the 43 hands I saw so the current view was that he was tight-weak. Granted 43 hands is not a huge sample.

Thanks again.

[BeerDog99]

I don't know if you're familiar with poker tracker or hold em manager's lines, but there is a huge difference between a 15/12 and a 15/1. They're playing the same amount of hands, but playing them completely differently.

I am using Pokertracker but I am not familiar with what you are refering to as their lines. I believe his number was something like 11/2. He played 5 hands, with 2 pf raises, on 43 hands.

If you have more info on how to analyze the poker tracker data and/or recommendations on the HUD stats, I would appreciate it. I am pretty weak on the analysis side of the data. Right now I am just using the VPIP/PFR numbers effectively and I there is more but I not sure how to use them effectively to make live decisions.

I did not record what my current stats at the table were but I imagine they were approx. 20/12 (in that area is where I have generally played).

Cheers.

[alyepes]

you were pt commited some times numbers dont matter

[daneblazer]

I am using Pokertracker but I am not familiar with what you are refering to as their lines. I believe his number was something like 11/2. He played 5 hands, with 2 pf raises, on 43 hands.

If you have more info on how to analyze the poker tracker data and/or recommendations on the HUD stats, I would appreciate it. I am pretty weak on the analysis side of the data. Right now I am just using the VPIP/PFR numbers effectively and I there is more but I not sure how to use them effectively to make live decisions.

I did not record what my current stats at the table were but I imagine they were approx. 20/12 (in that area is where I have generally played).

Cheers.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...-stats-699669/

This is a good start. Good luck!

[lolguy999]

wouldn't have played it much differently but to bet more on the turn because u realize he prolly called with a Q and 4th card brings a flush. Even if he still woulda raised u all in you still should bet more on the turn

[RANDAZZO]

Just as most here I would have played it the same most likely. Even if you raise pot I find a lot of people can't seem to fold flush draws online.

[BeerDog99]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...-stats-699669/

This is a good start. Good luck!

This is a great link, thanks Dane!!! For all reading this, if you have not yet, check this thread out. I am really going to work at this over the coming weeks.

SBR and its members are the best, thanks!

[jotoha]

Small stakes, online, I preflop raise a lot more than normal with AA, KK or QQ. Other than that, I would of played it the same.

[Kaladarus]

You played it perfect. There's no draws on the board that hit. Unless someone is drawing a gutshot or a backdoor you got them dominated. If they are drawing to those then you will dominate them in the long run anyways. Winning in the long term is what poker is all about. Instead of thinking how much you lost on this hand you should think how much you won on this hand. If the hand went the exact same way until the turn 1000 times and then the river was a random card, how much money would you average playing this hand the exact same way?

You can not put an opponent on a flush here the way it was played.

[Kaladarus]

Several people have said to check-raise the turn which is also an option. Depending on what read you have on the opponent this would be a good spot to check-raise him if you think he will bet. Overall though I prefer leading out since the most likely hand he called with on the flop was a pair and the king makes his hand worse more often than it makes it better. This makes him more likely to take a free card.

[BigLouie66]

the guy you were in against is a donkey and probably shouldnt even have been in the hand...and then chased it down to get lucky. I would track him down and kill his pets..

[apkboston]

i would call that a cooler and chalk it up to bad luck, nothing you can do to avoid, he could easily have a lower set or be bluffing

[BeerDog99]

I think the concensus is that I probably should have bet more on the turn but either way (especially with a bigger turn bet/pot) I was losing my stack to that cooler.

Thanks again all.

[levski2006]

not a good play at all, most of the things were trully said by BGbootha! Your bet sizes are too small- which leads to 2 main mistakes- giving them the right price to call u( mathematically) and not getting the required information. Right ammounts- flop- nice bet, turn 13.5-14.5, river direct push( u cant do anything with this runner runer flush)!

[scarface2738]

raise more preflop
/thread