[vividjohn45]

they did get there money back.

[vividjohn45]

and hamilton violated many laws. so he's not totally scott free right now. but yes. if he makes it into prison. he mite not want to devise a system to see JoJO's (cell block ruler) hole cards.

[borednaz]

Math in poker is useful. To ignore it just for the sake of being Manly is a sure fire way to go broke. Yes people take it to the extreme, but people do that with everything like say Gambling in the first place. I do play live, I do use basic poker math to keep myself in line. It's my money going into the pot and as such I'm going to do everything I can to make sure I get it back with interest or lose as little of it as possible.

This is why I might be a smaller winner but I don't go home broke.

[Congruency]

You're not in it for the sport, you're in it to prove your mathematical intellect.

Why can't it be both?

If it makes dollars, it makes sense

[The Madcap]

If it makes dollars, it makes sense

True. But if you or any of these other math geeks had figured it out well enough to make any real money you wouldn't be here.

Real gamblers get annoyed by people who gamble by using formulas but don't know jack about sports. To us gambling is an art, and you ruin the beauty of it by trying to turn it into a concrete set of blueprints. It's the difference between why Led Zeppelin rocks and Arcade Fire is gay.

[Congruency]

Fair enough. I would just like to say I'm not one of the "math geeks" you are referring to, but I tend to favor their side over yours.

I think a lot of "gambling is an art" individuals have it set in their minds that these math geeks know nothing about sports, which is pretty dumb. It's like online vs. live poker players. Your idea of gambling is very old-school. Gambling has evolved to where more and more people are seeing the value of using analytical formulas. You see this with a number of systems/models that people create. If you think that using math is pussifiying how gambling is to be done, then that's fine. But really it's just another way of analyzing the game.

Not saying that anyone is right or wrong. It's just another way of looking at the game, that's all.

[The Madcap]

Fair enough. I would just like to say I'm not one of the "math geeks" you are referring to, but I tend to favor their side over yours.

I think a lot of "gambling is an art" individuals have it set in their minds that these math geeks know nothing about sports, which is pretty dumb. It's like online vs. live poker players. Your idea of gambling is very old-school. Gambling has evolved to where more and more people are seeing the value of using analytical formulas. You see this with a number of systems/models that people create. If you think that using math is pussifiying how gambling is to be done, then that's fine. But really it's just another way of analyzing the game.

Not saying that anyone is right or wrong. It's just another way of looking at the game, that's all.

I'm not saying bringing in analytics can't be useful. And I've got no problem with poker players who do it. To me poker is just as inherently about numbers as anything else, and analytics have proven over time to be a useful and consistent way to make money. But sports gambling is different.

Yes some math is involved with sports gambling. Especially when looking at trends, totals, and trying to find value in a line. But in these instances the math is little more than the numbered manifestation of one's perception. It isn't some complex theorem. And while some math geeks might know a thing or two about sports, the overwhelming majority of the ones I've encountered don't. It's why they became geeks that got good at math in the first place, they were no good at sports.

Obviously there are exceptions. But we don't base our judgments in life on exceptions do we? (Well unless you're a liberal)

Point is, if you've never played organized sports at a competitive level, it's damned hard to really figure it all out after the fact. It reminds me of my buddy Al who thinks he's a football genius just because he's good at Madden. (He took Randy Moss with his first round fantasy pick this year. Shows you what he knows). And so while some athletes become good at math, and some folks good at math learn how to understand the game without ever playing it, these are rarities.

If you ever find me a guy who really knows what he's talking about on the court and in the math, let me know. Because that would be a damned interesting conversation. A guy like that might be able to possibly figure out something useful. The rest of them are just dorking up the cool table.

[jjgold]

Only people that win in sports are math guys that have zero risk

they are not gamblers

[AzNDooM]

How can you not consider math into gambling. Its the principle foundation on what gambling is built on.
If you dont believe in maths, then im sure your willing to give me a 100-1 odds at Roger Federer playing the 1000th seed in Tennis or Pocket Aces all in every time when your holding 7-2 offsuit.

[WvGambler]

[icancount2one]

ITT: Players with postcount > bankroll explain why ESPN > Math

Only poker equation I need: $50 > wire > ATM > Titties

[teaserpleaser]

Only people that win in sports are math guys that have zero risk

they are not gamblers

[FourLengthsClear]

I love how all the math geeks are so concerned with defending the numbers game they fail to see the dude's point.

Hey math geeks, everybody uses some amount of math in gambling. But we use "some" math, because it's called "GAMBLING." Not, "I'm going to design some complicated calculations to devise a system where the human element is completely neutralized."

You idiots aren't gambling. And that's his point. You're not in it for the sport, you're in it to prove your mathematical intellect. And that's lame. Go build a fukkin rocket or a computer program or something.

Speaking from my own perspective, it is not that. Not trying defend or prove anything, just to make a buck or two.

The thread title says that we are "ruining gambling" and I just don't see that. The OP, you are I are all free to use whatever approach we choose, I will not attack his or yours.

[bigdog3580]

Good Luck to all doing this.

[apkboston]

[scarface2738]

lol

[levski2006]

annoying somebody could write such thing!

[The Madcap]

The thread title says that we are "ruining gambling" and I just don't see that.

And the fantasy geeks don't think they're helping to ruin football.

If you want to make money, make money. Just saying that if you were good enough at math to develop a system to consistently win at sports gambling, then you wouldn't need sports gambling to make money. Which makes all your talk a useless waste of time and energy.

[donkdown]

MadCap and BigQ Obv real gamblers!! You guy's missed my point!! If u can beat a number beat it! My theory is the nerds cant name 5 players on a 52 man roster and bet because they beat the number!! Im sick of these pussies who were kicked, spit on and hit with shit in high school telling me not to bet the game cuz I missed the best number!! STFU pussies!! Grab your lap tops download some more systems while Im fcking your girlfriend and running up her CC all the while you are paying for it!!

[ireland1946]

I am not sure if you are a 100 % right with this Post?
But I am sure that when you play Oker you use numbers to try to get
an edge, eg. you look at your Hand and start figuring out " How many
outs do I have to get a flush, maybe a straight " etc. or after the flop
you automaticly figure out " ok King on board, I have A/K in the Pocket,
at this Point high Pair showing, what are the odds or % someone has
a higher Hand, like Pocket AA
you get my Point, gambling unfortunately is all about numbers, I don't
like it most Gamblers don't like it but its a fact

[goblinburner]

right on the money with this i went to the borgota last wek and i had a dude criticize my way of play if i win or lose shit is ridunkolus i gave up in bluffing these scumbags cuz if they dont play they become whinniers

[face]

not to be argumentative, but shit kicker cowboys are nerdy in a different way

[BetterBizness]

FU HUD's, BOTS, and the Geeks you rode in on!

[FourLengthsClear]

And the fantasy geeks don't think they're helping to ruin football.

If you want to make money, make money. Just saying that if you were good enough at math to develop a system to consistently win at sports gambling, then you wouldn't need sports gambling to make money. Which makes all your talk a useless waste of time and energy.

The mathematical skills invoved in developing a model are not that complex, certainly no more complex than the tools and indicators used by financial market traders.

Ultimately that is what it is about - beating the rest of the market using the tools at your disposal. Your in depth knowledge of the sport against the primarily numbers based methods that I use. The bookie (or exchange) is just a middle man - albeit taking his cut.

Your idea that you need to have played a sport at a good standard to be able to win is patently nonsense. I am British and have never played baseball or American football but consistently make more, proportionally, in these sports than I can in soccer which I have played (at a very decent standard 15 years ago) pretty much all my life.

[Aristocles]

Becoming good at mathematics or sport requires the employment of two things, to wit: genetics and will. I recall so many athletes who were solid at a given sport who thought it was there duty/destiny to be a dumbass. All succeeded nobly.

[antifoil]

the people mad at modelers and math people using it to win at sport gambling must also be against the principles of capitalism. they are angry because these individuals have made the numbers tighter and more efficient, therefore, harder to beat.

i think sports betting offers a better ROI than the stock market so people not adverse to the higher risk will play sports rather than the market.

[Congruency]

MadCap and BigQ Obv real gamblers!! You guy's missed my point!! If u can beat a number beat it! My theory is the nerds cant name 5 players on a 52 man roster and bet because they beat the number!! Im sick of these pussies who were kicked, spit on and hit with shit in high school telling me not to bet the game cuz I missed the best number!! STFU pussies!! Grab your lap tops download some more systems while Im fcking your girlfriend and running up her CC all the while you are paying for it!!

I'm not a math nerd, but LOL at you clinging to your high school days. You sound like Al Bundy. I bet you scored 4 TDs in a game, right? Now you just sit here and post on SBR while those with sick math skills make good bank in the real world.

[donkdown]

LOL u guessed it!! Must of struck a nerve!! LOL pussy I can buy and sell you in this world!! Plz direct yourself to the next Wizards and Warcraft game b4 I have to skull fck your mom!!

[alukk]

Only people that win in sports are math guys that have zero risk they are not gamblers

Wow

[Congruency]

LOL u guessed it!! Must of struck a nerve!! LOL pussy I can buy and sell you in this world!! Plz direct yourself to the next Wizards and Warcraft game b4 I have to skull fck your mom!!

LOL. Like I said I'm not a math nerd. This whole thing is just funny to me and I'm not offended one bit.

Keep posting on the message boards though. Almost at 2000 posts! I'm sure you can buy and sell me with the betpoints you pile up on the daily, haha.

[lolguy999]

math is simply useful... and thats it... the old saying still goes, if there aint a river, there aint gon be no fish

[donkdown]

LOL. Like I said I'm not a math nerd. This whole thing is just funny to me and I'm not offended one bit.

Keep posting on the message boards though. Almost at 2000 posts! I'm sure you can buy and sell me with the betpoints you pile up on the daily, haha.

Idiot if u r so good at math u will see that u avg almost as many post a day as me!!!! Y am I even talking to you?? It's Obv u r here for the free rolls and pts!! U arent even funded at a book!! Take your ass back to 2plus2 fa\*\*ot!!

[Duff85]

He ripped off pussies that would do nothing to him and he knew it.. Rip a true gambler off for 1% of what he stole and that guy would be pushing up daisies right now!!

I don't see you bashing the corporate execs that run the off-shore books that pwn your ass everyday. If your not getting the best number, betting with value and the like - you ain't beating sports betting.

Give up son.

[durito]

You ever make $50k in a day?

[gohabsgo]

How much did you lose donkdown?