[poochiecollins]

Caught the last few minutes of Miami @ Chicago. There was a blatant travel when a Chicago ball carrier left his pivot foot before dribbling; the rule is that a ball handler can leave his pivot foot on shot and pass attempts but -not- if dribbling is their first move.

Shortly later, it was worse when LeBron, who I'm generally a fan of, clearly charged into a Bulls defender (Rose?) and actually was credited with his shot and a free throw attempt. A simple way to think of charge verses blocking foul is who was at the spot first. There might be some gray area if a defender is positioned correctly then leans into the passing opponent, but the Chicago defender stopped before LeBron got to him with his limbs in and stayed still.

I caught the first few seconds of the next game, Boston and Denver I believe, enough time to see a ball handler change pivot foots without a whistle

[demens]

Not sure what travel you're talking about but the Lebron call was not a charge AT ALL. And this is coming from someone that HATES Lebron and thinks he charges on half of his drives to the basket. It looked like it could be live, but replays showed clearly it wasn't. He faked Rose out, went left and Rose stay still, they bumped shoulders. It could have been a no call, but it was Lebron and Rose almost did a back flip trying to get the refs attention. It wasn't even close to a charge.

[Daverrd]

the Bron call, I thought it was a good one too.
Looked like Rose was moving a little bit still and got hit on the side. If he took the shot in the middle of his chest and was set, it would have been an automatic charge call.
As for the travels.. yeah it happens a lot in the NBA but I guess their thinking is, if they pull up the game every time it wouldn't be fun for casual basketball fans to watch.

[poochiecollins]

Not sure what travel you're talking about

As I said, any time a ball carrier's first move is a dribble and he lifts his pivot foot before doing so, it's legally a travel.

f. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player's hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.
g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_10...av=ArticleList

[demens]

I meant i'm not sure what travel as in i dont recall the play. Most of the time what you're talking about is called a travel. Sometimes its not, most of the time the cases its not called involves a star. But they do call travels.

[poochiecollins]

Not sure what travel you're talking about but the Lebron call was not a charge AT ALL. And this is coming from someone that HATES Lebron and thinks he charges on half of his drives to the basket. It looked like it could be live, but replays showed clearly it wasn't. He faked Rose out, went left and Rose stay still, they bumped shoulders. It could have been a no call, but it was Lebron and Rose almost did a back flip trying to get the refs attention. It wasn't even close to a charge.

How could Rose be "faked" out if he was set in a stance? How is ramming someone with your shoulder -not- a foul? Rose didn't do any acting job that anyone else doesn't do in drawing a charge; LeBron's ~270 pounds, no?

the Bron call, I thought it was a good one too.
Looked like Rose was moving a little bit still and got hit on the side. If he took the shot in the middle of his chest and was set, it would have been an automatic charge call.
As for the travels.. yeah it happens a lot in the NBA but I guess their thinking is, if they pull up the game every time it wouldn't be fun for casual basketball fans to watch.

It's a myth that you must be absolutely still to draw a charge. He just has to not be moving toward LeBron, which no one's claiming Rose did. Setting a screen with your side or back is illegal, but the contact was made with Rose's upper-right front.

NBA's charge rules: http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c....av=ArticleList Points of emphasis:
"A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path of a dribbler regardless of his speed and distance. "
"If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has estab-lished a legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored."

[demens]

How could Rose be "faked" out if he was set in a stance? How is ramming someone with your shoulder -not- a foul? Rose didn't do any acting job that anyone else doesn't do in drawing a charge; LeBron's ~270 pounds, no?

It's a myth that you must be absolutely still to draw a charge. He just has to not be moving toward LeBron, which no one's claiming Rose did. Setting a screen with your side or back is illegal, but the contact was made with Rose's upper-right front.

NBA's charge rules: http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c....av=ArticleList Points of emphasis:
"A defensive player is permitted to establish a legal guarding position in the path of a dribbler regardless of his speed and distance. "
"If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has estab-lished a legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored."

You can put up as many quotes from the rule book as you want. I held back on calling you an idiot in my first reply but if you really think the play with Rose was anything closer to a charge you need to read less and actually watch more games.

I can't say NOT EVEN CLOSE enough times to make you understand. NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!

[poochiecollins]

You can put up as many quotes from the rule book as you want. I held back on calling you an idiot in my first reply but if you really think the play with Rose was anything closer to a charge you need to read less and actually watch more games. I can't say NOT EVEN CLOSE enough times to make you understand. NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!

So you're not contesting that Rose didn't initiate contact or that LeBron rammed Rose with his shoulder, nor my rule interpretation, but you still say the play's not a foul and I'm an idiot? Lol? Are you LeBron's lawyer, or are you one of those people who never admit when they're wrong?

[demens]

So you're not contesting that Rose didn't initiate contact or that LeBron rammed Rose with his shoulder, nor my rule interpretation, but you still say the play's not a foul and I'm an idiot? Lol? Are you LeBron's lawyer, or are you one of those people who never admit when they're wrong?

I'm not contesting that Rose didn't initiate contact, i'm contesting that Lebron "rammed" into him. Noone rammed into anybody, they bumped shoulders, you can't take a charge with your shoulder. Maybe its not the interpretation that you're having trouble with its what actually happened on the play.

As for me being Lebrons lawyers...did you not see my previous post?

Not sure what travel you're talking about but the Lebron call was not a charge AT ALL. And this is coming from someone that HATES Lebron and thinks he charges on half of his drives to the basket. It looked like it could be live, but replays showed clearly it wasn't. He faked Rose out, went left and Rose stay still, they bumped shoulders. It could have been a no call, but it was Lebron and Rose almost did a back flip trying to get the refs attention. It wasn't even close to a charge.

[poochiecollins]

I'm not contesting that Rose didn't initiate contact, i'm contesting that Lebron "rammed" into him. Noone rammed into anybody, they bumped shoulders, you can't take a charge with your shoulder.

Can't take a foul with your shoulder? Yeah, there's not going to be any language in any basketball rulebook that would preclude a player from being charged with a foul after hitting someone with their shoulder. A push is a push.

As for me being Lebrons lawyers...did you not see my previous post?

I know what you said. I brought that up because you were being strangely passionate about a play that didn't change the outcome of the game and there is apparently no video of (I looked).