[Bcatswin]

Another think Rolen said he feels more healthy than he has the last 5 years, yea i know that could just be talk, but he as everyone knows is well respected around the game, and i dont think he's just blowing smoke by saying this...

[$Burm$]

as great as the cards pitching staff is, theres no way you can replace adam waino in that rotation, nooo wayy. Cards fall down to third IMO. Reds are still the favorites, and I don't think they really have to many holes in the pitching staff like you claim, but they have to be able to play this season as the team that everyone is gunning for instead of the under-the-radar, we have nothing to lose type of team, while the Brewers have to play with the pressure of this is our year that we have to do something. That's just my opinion. I think the brewers and reds will be a tight finish, and it will come down to which staff can stay healthy and be on the field. Cards will take 3rd and then stros and cubs will battle it out for 4th. with that other team in last.

[Bcatswin]

Well put...

[ttwarrior1]

at the all star break cory hart was the mvp before a fluke injury

[stevenash]

Dont foget what a healthy Cueto and Volquez can do. Reds have a very good young staff.

Looking at the way the 2011 NL Central is constituted, Reds look like the team to beat.
You got six guys in the lineup that could pop 20 homers each.

Phillips at second.
Stubbs, Gomes, and Bruce in the OF all could go deep 20x.
Rolen is four years past him prime, but the tank isn't on 'E' yet.

Oh yeah, they got that guy, what's his name? Joey Votto or something?

Starters : Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto are more than capable.

I like the Reds in 2011 myself.

p.s. good thread guys, love hardball talk in Feb.

[thericker7]

I put money on the Brewers already.

[stevenash]

I put money on the Brewers already.

To win the Central?
What you get 2:1? 5:2?

Had Rangers last year for pennant and division, got laughed at hard in March from the baseball board, I whistled to the windows in October.

I wish you well.

[Richards]

Gomez could be a wild card for the brewers if he can just learn to hit a bit and get his OBP up. Has amazing range in CF, great speed, can bunt, but hitting was woeful last year. Organization seems to really want him to succeed.

Brewers could hit a ton at time last year, but then would disappear for 2-3 game stretches sometimes. They need to maybe find some small ball manufactured runs when the power hitting isn't there.

I wish they hadn't traded Escobar. He'll be playing in the All-Star game in a few years, but not for the Brewers.

[shaq diesel 75]

I don't think anyone really understands how good Ryan Braun is, if the Brewers can put together a good starting rotation they will be contenders for winning the world series. Their lineup is as good as any in the NL.

[stevenash]

Braun is scary good.
But so is Votto.

Phillips > Weeks though.
Reds OF > Brewers OF

Just saying,

[kahnner]

Braun is scary good.
But so is Votto.

Phillips > Weeks though.
Reds OF > Brewers OF

Just saying,

So Bruce,Gomes,Stubbs are better than Braun, hart and Gomez
That's funny shit!

[ttwarrior1]

agreed, go brewers, im a phily fan and always liked the reds also. I have to be unbiased

[Pauulzcappin]

Braun is scary good. But so is Votto. Phillips > Weeks though. Reds OF > Brewers OF Just saying,

[stevenash]

Phillips average season (discarding the cups of coffee with the Indians) as a Red is 24-94-.276 (29 SB's)
Weeks average season with the Brewers are 22-57-.253 (23 SB's)

How exactly is Weeks better than Phillips.
You expect Weeks to hit 29 homers again next year? That was the first time he's had 20 + in a season.
Phillips did it 3 out of his last 5 years, (17 & 18 the other two years)
Phillips is by far the more consistent power hitter, hits for much better average, drives in more runs per 162, steals more bases..........

p.s you want to talk defense, don't even go there, Phillips makes every play at second, booting three balls all season, amazing for a middle infielder.
Matter of fact, Phillips last year was the best defensive second baseman in the league, out of seondbasemen that played more than 120 games.

Eckstein's numbers were a little bettter, but played about 2/3 of SD's season.

Phillips makes far less mistakes at second then Weeks, has better range, hits for a higher average, yadda, yadda, yadda......

You are basing your opinion one season, look at Phillip's last five, put them side by side with Weeks numbers, both offense and defense, if you can tell me Weeks is the better second baseman after doing so, I'll laugh.

Is Weeks crap? Of course not.
To say he's clearly the better second baseman is just wrong

[Pauulzcappin]

Weeks is the better on offense and Phillips is better on defense, but not by far. I'll take Weeks anyday.

I could give 1 million stats and sabermetrics that would prove that but too lazy right now

[stevenash]

Weeks is the better on offense and Phillips is better on defense, but not by far. I'll take Weeks anyday.

I could give 1 million stats and sabermetrics that would prove that but too lazy right now

Dude, it's what you want out of your second baseman.
I personally want Ultey or Cano, but can't have everything.

Not for nothing most (not all) respected projected sites have Phillips #5, Weeks #7 at 2B, the difference is not that great.
Kinsler is ranked between them BTW, I personally got Kinsler 4, Uggla 6, but that's just me.

You want defense, BP is your man.
You want on base average, Weeks is the guy.
You want batting average, it's BP.

Both can swipe 30 if they want to, Phillips has more consistent power.

Can't go wrong with either.

Here's my 2B rankings.

Cano
Utley (change 1 and 2 if you want)
Pedroia
Kinsler
Phillips
Uggla
Weeks (move Weeks up one spot if you want)
Roberts
Zobrist
Beckham

[notsosharp]

Cardinals still find a way to win. But milwaukee might win if greinke pitches well enough enough to win the cy young award.

[Jankar]

Eckstein's numbers were a little bettter, but played about 2/3 of SD's season.

[stevenash]

So Bruce,Gomes,Stubbs are better than Braun, hart and Gomez
That's funny shit!

Collectively, Reds outfield is on a par with the Brewer outfield, if not slightly better.

Nobody is going to argue that Gomes is a better left fielder than Braun, that's just dopey.
Braun is the second best outfielder in the National League behind Car-Go.

But you can't tell me with a straight face that Carlos Gomez is a better center fielder than Drew Stubbs.
Jay Bruce is every bit the right fielder that Corey Hart is, if not slightly better.

You can expect Jay Bruce to hit 30 homers this season, 35 is not out of the question.
This is Bruce's fourth full season now, totally familiar with NL pitching, parks, the MLB way of life.
His first two seasons, learning the pitching, parks, etc.etc. he hit 21 and 22 homers, playing about 75% of the games.
Had the dreaded sohomore jinx in his second year, hit only .223 but smacked 22 homers.
Last season, playing full time, Bruce proved he belongs with the top tier NL outfielders.
He raised his average 60 points, as well as his power numbers.
Expect Bruce to maintain that .280 average from last year, while hitting 30 homers driving in 85.
A 30-85-.280 projection is reasonable.

Corey Hart had a breakout year as well last season.
31-102-.283
Compare his 2009 and 2008 years to Bruce's first two years (2008-2009) you basicly have the same hitters.
There is no clear advantage Hart from Bruce.
OK, Hart steals a few more bases, but still, upside potential, I'd rather have Bruce this year than Hart.
This is what you can expect in 2011

LF
Braun 30-102-.295
Gomes 20-75-.265

CF
Gomez 8-40-.255
Stubbs 24-85-.270

RF
Hart 27-90-.280
Bruce 29-90-.265


Braun > Gomes
Stubbs > Gomez
Bruce => Hart

[stevenash]

I don't understand what you mean by "Where's the power in the OF?" Braun and Corey Hart will combine for 50 HR's. Did you want more?

Excuse that statement I was looking at another teams home page when I posted that.
What you might call a brain fart.
My multi tasking skills drop off as I get older.
Of course Hart and Braun deliver the homers.

[orlikowski]

I like the brewers to take the division. Wainwright is the best pitcher on the cardinals. Carpenter can get injured. I wont rule them out because they have albert. But it should be close between brewers, reds, cardinals and cubs

[Cantstopmenow]

Cincy>>>Brewers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cubs

And it's not even close.

[Willie Bee]

I'm not sure 85 games is going to get it done in the NL Central.

An 85-86 win team taking the division wouldn't surprise me at all. Agree with some here that the Cardinals might not be as 'done' as some of the projections are with Wainwright out. The Reds and Brewers, either one, could run away with things IF they stay entirely healthy, and there is history in both rotations to suggest that will not happen. Certainly easy to project the Cubs and Pirates adding 12 wins or so between them. Houston -- my beloved Astros -- has the potential for a very, very underrated 1-2-3 in the rotation and could easily finish right at that same 75-win plateau. I really like this division winner to come home with no more than 88 wins.

[kahnner]

Collectively, Reds outfield is on a par with the Brewer outfield, if not slightly better.

Nobody is going to argue that Gomes is a better left fielder than Braun, that's just dopey.
Braun is the second best outfielder in the National League behind Car-Go.

But you can't tell me with a straight
face that Carlos Gomez is a better center fielder than Drew Stubbs.
Jay Bruce is every bit the right fielder
that Corey Hart is, if not slightly better.

You can expect Jay Bruce to hit 30
homers this season, 35 is not out of the question.
This is Bruce's fourth full season now,
totally familiar with NL pitching, parks, the MLB way of life.
His first two seasons, learning the pitching, parks, etc.etc. he hit 21 and
22 homers, playing about 75% of the games.
Had the dreaded sohomore jinx in his second year, hit only .223 but smacked
22 homers.
Last season, playing full time, Bruce proved he belongs with the top tier NL outfielders.

He raised his average 60 points, as well as his power numbers.
Expect Bruce to maintain that .280 average from last year, while hitting 30
homers driving in 85.
A 30-85-.280 projection is reasonable.

Corey Hart had a breakout year as well
last season.
31-102-.283
Compare his 2009 and 2008 years to Bruce's first two years (2008-2009) you basicly have the same hitters.
There is no clear advantage Hart from Bruce.
OK, Hart steals a few more bases, but still, upside potential, I'd rather have
Bruce this year than Hart.
This is what you can expect in 2011

LF
Braun 30-102-.295
Gomes 20-75-.265

CF
Gomez 8-40-.255
Stubbs 24-85-.270

RF
Hart 27-90-.280
Bruce 29-90-.265




Braun > Gomes
Stubbs > Gomez
Bruce => Hart

Bruce isn't better than hart or even = to yet. Bruce had one good season. Hart has had a few good years.

2007- .295 24 81 23 sb
2008- .260 20 91 23 sb
2009 missed too many games
2010- .283 31 102 7 sb
He's a 2 time all star and has put up good numbers for a few years I'll take that over somebody that your guessing is going to have another good season.
If Bruce puts up good numbers again then maybe I'll say is is equal too hart.
As of right now hart is better!
Stubbs should be better than Gomez and Braun is WAY better than Gomes.

[VegasInsider]

You think Grienke is some great pitcher. He had one great year in KC and won a Cy Young. He's a bum..

Career record of 60-67, 3.82 ERA

[kahnner]

You think Grienke is some great pitcher. He had one great year in KC and won a Cy Young. He's a bum..

He allready said he wasn't even that interested in pitching last year. He will put up great numbers this year

[Brewers in 7]

Being a lifelong Brewers fan i can say this is the best ive felt going into the season in a long time..

[stevenash]

Astros can contend if Happ shows that 2009 12-4 form, Wandy needs to step up and win at the minimum 14 games.
Myers could very well be the biggest head case in the game, but if he wins 13 + for the 'Stros, it'll be worth the migranes.

They are going to need Barmes to revert back to the .290-.300 hitter he once was, not the .230-.240 hitter he's become.
Lee will do some damage, I like the very underrated Hunter Pence a lot.
Dude steals about 20 bases a year, while hitting .280 and hits 25 homers a year, every year.
Only knock on Pence is he doesn't get on base much, if his walk total was up, he'd steal 40 a year.
I like Bourn also.

You know what?
The more I look at this team, the more I think they could be a dark horse.
Don't know much about Chris Johnson, but I hear he can rake some.

Very interesting division.

[onetrickpony]

You think Grienke is some great pitcher. He had one great year in KC and won a Cy Young. He's a bum.. Career record of 60-67, 3.82 ERA

its hard winning in KC, and that defense is awful

[stevenash]

^
And the field temperature gets to 110 degress in August at times.

[blackbart]

look for grienke and marcum, to both benefit from the league change.
pirates and cubs battle for last, astros contend.

[ttwarrior1]

[daimoshokage]

[stevenash]

look for grienke...........

To wind up on the DL until May.

[GOB]

look for grienke and marcum, to both benefit from the league change.
pirates and cubs battle for last, astros contend.

This is pretty much what I'm thinking. 3 team race for the division, Astros in 4th but closer to 3rd than 5th, Pirates and Cubs battle for 5th.