[yisman]

Anyone who reads the Sportsbooks & Industry forum is perfectly clear on how you feel about SBR and Betfair.

[Hareeba!]

A)Perfectly relevant. Given the way you feel about SBR, I'm surprised you continue to post here. As far as I know, no one is holding a gun to your head.

I frequent this forum to learn. And, hopefully to inform and educate where I think my experience can assist others.

B)The point is that why on earth does it matter to you if someone says something negative about Betfair? You think they're great. Fine. Continue to bet with them. No one said you can't. But unless you work for Betfair, I don't see why you get so defensive. Every post I see from you is along the same lines.

I dislike reading unfair and inaccurate posts. In fairness to those who don't know better, where I have knowledge and experience to correct unfair, inaccurate and misleading stuff I like to do so.

"Every post ... is along the same lines" ?

Clearly you haven't read a very good percentage of my posts. Many of them make no reference at all to Betfair. But yes, many do. Simply because they are the best and are primarily responsible for having revolutionised betting by bringing punters in-play and lay betting and forced traditional bookies to offer more attractive odds. In summary they are the best thing to have happened to the betting scene in my time.

[Hareeba!]

Anyone who reads the Sportsbooks & Industry forum is perfectly clear on how you feel about SBR and Betfair.

you make accusations and then when called upon to back them up with evidence you fail to produce .... enough said!

[yisman]

you make accusations and then when called upon to back them up with evidence you fail to produce .... enough said!

Errr, what evidence would you like?

You want all the posts where you bash SBR and praise Betfair?

Sorry, that would take hours.... enough said!

I could create a thread with all the examples of each, but I would expect to be paid for it. My idea of fun is not digging up every one of your biased posts.

[Hareeba!]

Errr, what evidence would you like?

You want all the posts where you bash SBR and praise Betfair?

Sorry, that would take hours.... enough said!

I could create a thread with all the examples of each, but I would expect to be paid for it. My idea of fun is not digging up every one of your biased posts.

Anyone who makes accusations should be prepared to produce evidence to back them up if called upon.

You said I had made "gross attacks" on SBR's ratings integrity.
I told you what I recall saying. Is that all you are referring to or is there something more substantial?
Innocent until proven guilty is the accepted standard I understand, even in America?

[Hareeba!]

@ Hareeba

Let it go. Let SBR downgrade Betfair to an F.

SBR's rating on Betfair matters about as much as my rating on Betfair.

As I've said Pareto, let then downgrade it to Z-. It makes no difference to me. And is pretty well irrelevant to most who read them anyway as they can't use Betfair. But it really would make SBR a laughing stock.

However there would be some who fall for all the scaremongering and it would be a shame that it might put them off availing themselves of a great sports exchange for no sound reason.

[Hareeba!]

betfair will never see any money from me

well mate, that would be your loss.

btw, in preference to Betfair with which agencies are you betting?

[Dark Horse]

You're still going on about this Hareeba? You say you don't care, yet keep defending the thieves. For no other reason, apparently, than that they didn't steal from you. So they can't be thieves. Fine. We get the reasoning.

[Hareeba!]

You're still going on about this Hareeba? You say you don't care, yet keep defending the thieves. For no other reason, apparently, than that they didn't steal from you. So they can't be thieves. Fine. We get the reasoning.

I don't believe Betfair has ever 'stolen' funds from an exchange player. And I don't believe they ever will.

They may well have confiscated account balances from cheats, fraudsters and suspected money launderers etc pursuant to law enforcement authority directions. That doesn't constitute stealing.

They are accused of 'stealing' also in relation to a casino promotion which they claim some players violated their rules. This case I expect will be decided in court.

There is absolutely no concern for any exchange player who doesn't violate their rules or the law. The company is subject to strict control, audit and government supervision.

They are actively pursuing licences in new jurisdictions, including the USA.

They wouldn't jeopardise that for a few miserable 'thefts' when it would be so simple for those opposing them to throw such evidence in their faces.

[tommygun]

People complaining about Betfair in this forum are no doubt Yanks who are unable to use the site and have no idea about it. I agree with you completely Hareeba, best sportsbook on the planet. Go back to using "legendz" and "bet phoenix"...

[yokspot]

There is absolutely no concern for any exchange player who doesn't violate their rules or the law. The company is subject to strict control, audit and government supervision.

There are less concerns because the exchange is located in the UK, and there is a popular guesstimated opinion that the UK regulators are better than the Maltese. As far as I know there's not much in practice to back this up, but we might as well be optimistic.

However, the casino players also didn't violate any rules. So it may be only that small, intangible "benefit" of UK as opposed to Maltese regulation, that ultimately makes the difference.

[Salmon Steak]

Thanks justin7, I will tell everyone not to use betfair because they are obviously criminals.

[tommygun]

everyone should join up at betfair and send me a pm because i can give u a free $50.

[acw]

It will not take that long for these guys to go out of business. Share price only going one direction:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=B...BET.L;range=3m

and when did we hear these stories before of the so-called listed companies like BetOnSports, etc.

[austin]

betfair going out of business - will never happen

[Hareeba!]

betfair going out of business - will never happen

unquestionably the best business of its kind on Earth .. far far too valuable and with millions of customers it will survive even if its owner doesn't

[FourLengthsClear]

I have never had an issue with Betfair but this is disgusting behavior.
They have a lot of experience with this type of promotion and should know what to expect if they offer the player advantageous terms.

[jangheesoop]

I've been play with betfair and no problem. Yeah, the best exchange right now and no one can beat them.

"blind cheerleading" ???

I have accounts at the best books in the world and shop for the best prices at them. The fact that I do more business at Betfair than any of the others must surely say something? Certainly not "disposable" if that's what you were trying to say.

If you don't restrict yourself to US sports and aren't subject to Betfair's premium charge there is simply nowhere better to play a range of sports surebets

There are 3 essential elements to define a top sportsbook and there are no more than a handful which meet the criteria of:
1. Security/prompt payouts; 2. Low juice, 3. High limits.

The SBR ratings have very little worth. Some very ordinary outfits are highly rated and a brilliant book like SBO isn't even mentioned. And all credibility goes out the window when they downgrade Betfair.

[austin]

any update on the betfair complaint?

[loyd]

the guy who posted the video shouldn't have put "robs" and "botched" in the url of the video, if the title was "player lose money in promotion mistake" it wouldn't have been removed. i really hope that any one who have an interesting video to post on youtube don't try to sell it by using unecessary words because it will be removed and thats not what he wants.

[Justin7]

the guy who posted the video shouldn't have put "robs" and "botched" in the url of the video, if the title was "player lose money in promotion mistake" it wouldn't have been removed. i really hope that any one who have an interesting video to post on youtube don't try to sell it by using unecessary words because it will be removed and thats not what he wants.

I did the video. It was removed, not because of the title, but because someone complained it was "defamatory". I replied to the complaint sent to Youtube with my real name and contact information, and told Youtube that I stood by the video. If Betfair thought it was defamatory, they could sue me personally.

Youtube put the video back up, and it is still up.

I won't crapify how I talk about Betfair (or any other book) because someone doesn't like the url, especially when my description is more accurate and correct than a softer one.

[chance]

Well done for having the balls to stick up to this bully boy behaviour by betfair.

[acw]

The problem BetFair has, is that they discovered that their current exchange (full of traders) is not making enough money and that old fashioned style bookmaking/casinos are more profitable, but then the minute they venture into something they know f.ck all about, they get caught in a similar way as most Caribbean books get caught (bonus abuse included). I LOVE IT!

As far as I know BetFair employees are all selling their shares now.

Justin7 never wanted to listen to me when I warned him of Wagerweb and again he has not learned!
Why are these guys still an A?!?!?!?! Downgrade them!

[tommygun]

Betfair best book in world. They make millions ACW.

[vividjohn45]

definite downgrade. betfair casino. whoops.

[vividjohn45]

hareeba. i think ur being hypocritical. if u had won some erroneous. BF sportsbook bonus, where u wagered and risked ur own cash. and then they pulled the bonus on you. you would not be standing in your current shoes. saying Bf is a good book. i live a block from a casino in vegas. and their sportsbook better work just like their casino machines. and whatever promotions the casino is having.

i never seperate the two. or three if u play poker. same package bud. i bet a game, get a slice of pizza. play some black jack during commericail breaks and when the games done. i go play poker.

NOw what do you say to that.

i think ur shilling.

[vividjohn45]

like 12 feet from the sports and race book. are keno machines and slots. how can u difer the two?

[Hareeba!]

hareeba. i think ur being hypocritical. if u had won some erroneous. BF sportsbook bonus, where u wagered and risked ur own cash. and then they pulled the bonus on you. you would not be standing in your current shoes. saying Bf is a good book. i live a block from a casino in vegas. and their sportsbook better work just like their casino machines. and whatever promotions the casino is having.

i never seperate the two. or three if u play poker. same package bud. i bet a game, get a slice of pizza. play some black jack during commericail breaks and when the games done. i go play poker.

NOw what do you say to that.

i think ur shilling.

think what you want
believe what you want
I KNOW Betfair is the greatest thing ever to happen for sports punters
One day with any luck Americans will learn and experience what most of the rest of us do
I care absolutely NOTHING about casinos and bonuses

[tkim8404]

I'll make sure never to play with those guys. Thanks for the heads up Justin

[Hareeba!]

I'll make sure never to play with those guys. Thanks for the heads up Justin

yet another loser

[FourLengthsClear]

think what you want
believe what you want
I KNOW Betfair is the greatest thing ever to happen for sports punters
One day with any luck Americans will learn and experience what most of the rest of us do
I care absolutely NOTHING about casinos and bonuses

I don't disagree with your basic sentiment and this event will not stop me from playing at Betfair.
When they came on to the scene they revolutionised betting and forced bookmakers to become more competitive.

The problem though is that they have such a strong market position that they appear to be drifting into a belief that they can do whatever they want. Premium Charge demonstrates that and retroactively amending a bonus offer constitutes theft in my book.

[Sawyer]

Never had a problem with Betfair so far. Never heard any complaints either. Don't know about the casino though..

BF is the biggest & best exchange on earth.

[Hareeba!]

I don't disagree with your basic sentiment and this event will not stop me from playing at Betfair.
When they came on to the scene they revolutionised betting and forced bookmakers to become more competitive.

The problem though is that they have such a strong market position that they appear to be drifting into a belief that they can do whatever they want. Premium Charge demonstrates that and retroactively amending a bonus offer constitutes theft in my book.

And I don't really disagree with you.
There's definitely an issue in being a virtual monopoly but for exchange betting the bigger the better as liquidity is the key.
And the Premium Charge just smacks of greed to me and I doubt it is a net benefit to the company. Fortunately only a relative handful of players are subject to it and most don't need concern themselves with it (fx).
And I agee they've created a monster for themselves with this casino bonus affair and it seems they would have been smarter to just swallow the loss. But I've great regard for their legal department and if they are defending it my money would be on their side. I haven't really gone into all the detail but I do know that every special offer and bonus I've ever seen makes a point of referring to their standard terms and conditions and I suspect that is what they are probably relying on to defend their stance.

[Ace_of_Spades]

Anyone know the estimated amount of money one would have to have in their account to be hit by this premium charge?

[acw]

Anyone know the estimated amount of money one would have to have in their account to be hit by this premium charge?

Simply when they are short of cash:

12/26/2010 12:49 PM
betfair suspends player account and debits €32,000 in premium fees
betfair (SBR rating A) has charged a player €32,000 in premium fees.