[jjgold]

I think they are legit............well that is my early opinion.

[increasedodds]

I have no idea if these guys are legit. My guess is they are making a go of it, but once they get too many stiffs they will fold.

There is a chance they could get lucky at first, get a good number of honest players, cut the stiffs, close up enrollment, and have a nice business. Really they have no risk.

They can not legally report anything to a credit report. IF they do, you send certified mail to the credit report telling them it was a gambling debt, can not be enforced, and if it is not deleted with 10 biz days, you will sue them. No collection agency or credit report is going to get involved fighting you on this.

Anyways, there is nothing they can do with the last 4 of yoru SNN and license. Ever opened a bank or credit card with the last 4? They are using these details to verify identity just as Neteller did. THere are services where you can verify addreses with last 4 and license...

Seems to me they'd have a hell of a lot better chance of making a go of it if they required proof of employment and an income of $50k or $75k... Much fewer people likely to stiff if they have means to pay.

-Sean

[Panic]

I have no idea if these guys are legit. My guess is they are making a go of it, but once they get too many stiffs they will fold.

There is a chance they could get lucky at first, get a good number of honest players, cut the stiffs, close up enrollment, and have a nice business. Really they have no risk.

They can not legally report anything to a credit report. IF they do, you send certified mail to the credit report telling them it was a gambling debt, can not be enforced, and if it is not deleted with 10 biz days, you will sue them. No collection agency or credit report is going to get involved fighting you on this.

Anyways, there is nothing they can do with the last 4 of yoru SNN and license. Ever opened a bank or credit card with the last 4? They are using these details to verify identity just as Neteller did. THere are services where you can verify addreses with last 4 and license...

Seems to me they'd have a hell of a lot better chance of making a go of it if they required proof of employment and an income of $50k or $75k... Much fewer people likely to stiff if they have means to pay.

-Sean

Easy to do damage with your address and the last 4 digits of your social. Someone can call your cable company for example and find out whatever they want, ask them to send an itemized bill to a different address being a PO box. All the cable company ever ask for is the last 4 digits of your social to get into your account. This is just one avenue of accumulating information.

I wouldn't trust this site, seems like its catered for shottakers and scammers. They may just get the last laugh and say one good turn deserves another.

[Iwinyourmoney]

TWO withdraws in for Max. One should arrive this week and the next one next week. Will keep everyone updated

[tyler36]

hey guys, congrats on your wins... now i have won the max but i'm trying to get it but i'm having troubles with scanning my dl and sending it, i can scan it but can't seem to be able to send it via my computer to an email, can anyone help me out?

[rop74]

chat I just had with their online help. thought maybe some of you might find it interesting.

Please wait. A representative will be with you shortly.
George says:
Hello Ron. My name is George how can I help you?
Ron says:
Hi, just had a question regarding withdrawals
Ron says:
can you ** them or do they have to be sent as checks?
George says:
checks
Ron says:
a few people that I know of have received Moneygrams though
George says:
we did that the first two weeks
George says:
whats your account number?
Ron says:
why the change?
Ron says:
don't have one yet, wanted to figure this out before I sign up
George says:
had to get company to send checks
George says:
ok
Ron says:
what do you mean?
Ron says:
the only reason I ask is that ** is so much easier
George says:
Way to hard to send, but good to receive
George says:
we will have our debit cards in April
Ron says:
has anyone paid you yet?
George says:
of course
Ron says:
I hope your book works and it's an interesting concept, I would just have to imagine people are going to be trying to not pay
Ron says:
you know what I mean?
George says:
thats why we hired the best collection agency on the net
George says:
they collect for porn sites and they are pretty good
Ron says:
I see
Ron says:
why don't you have a phone number?
Ron says:
your site is way different than pinnacle, 5dimes, etc.
George says:
no need, as we don't take phone bets
George says:
those are two great books
Ron says:
I know, and dependable
George says:
our software is way better than both by far
Ron says:
anytime a new book opens there's always questions
Ron says:
I just like to proceed with caution
George says:
our concept is the best, over time
George says:
no rush
Ron says:
a lot of people have been worrying about scams, etc.
George says:
we are here forever
George says:
change is scary
George says:
the books are more freaked then the customers
George says:
they all have their schills out there bashing it
Ron says:
i know
George says:
does not matter, we pay and have great service and software
Ron says:
i just hope the bottom doesnt fall out from nonpayers and such
Ron says:
or that this isnt some weird identity theft thing
George says:
not at all
Ron says:
i saw that you also have like a bunch of other weird domain names
Ron says:
ipod something
George says:
we dont have them
George says:
they were pointed to our ip way before we were around and why stop the traffic
Ron says:
true
Ron says:
so if youre not down more than 400 youre cool?
George says:
yes, no settlement
Ron says:
and settlements are every wednesday night?
Ron says:
or sunday night?
George says:
week ends sunday, we send checks on weds
Ron says:
i see
Ron says:
interesting, well - thanks for your time
George says:
ok

[pimike]

Hey Ron thanks for the update. How are you attaching your live chat on here? how do u save it?

[Panic]

chat I just had with their online help. thought maybe some of you might find it interesting.

Please wait. A representative will be with you shortly.
George says:
Hello Ron. My name is George how can I help you?
Ron says:
Hi, just had a question regarding withdrawals
Ron says:
can you ** them or do they have to be sent as checks?
George says:
checks
Ron says:
a few people that I know of have received Moneygrams though
George says:
we did that the first two weeks
George says:
whats your account number?
Ron says:
why the change?
Ron says:
don't have one yet, wanted to figure this out before I sign up
George says:
had to get company to send checks
George says:
ok
Ron says:
what do you mean?
Ron says:
the only reason I ask is that ** is so much easier
George says:
Way to hard to send, but good to receive
George says:
we will have our debit cards in April
Ron says:
has anyone paid you yet?
George says:
of course
Ron says:
I hope your book works and it's an interesting concept, I would just have to imagine people are going to be trying to not pay
Ron says:
you know what I mean?
George says:
thats why we hired the best collection agency on the net
George says:
they collect for porn sites and they are pretty good
Ron says:
I see
Ron says:
why don't you have a phone number?
Ron says:
your site is way different than pinnacle, 5dimes, etc.
George says:
no need, as we don't take phone bets
George says:
those are two great books
Ron says:
I know, and dependable
George says:
our software is way better than both by far
Ron says:
anytime a new book opens there's always questions
Ron says:
I just like to proceed with caution
George says:
our concept is the best, over time
George says:
no rush
Ron says:
a lot of people have been worrying about scams, etc.
George says:
we are here forever
George says:
change is scary
George says:
the books are more freaked then the customers
George says:
they all have their schills out there bashing it
Ron says:
i know
George says:
does not matter, we pay and have great service and software
Ron says:
i just hope the bottom doesnt fall out from nonpayers and such
Ron says:
or that this isnt some weird identity theft thing
George says:
not at all
Ron says:
i saw that you also have like a bunch of other weird domain names
Ron says:
ipod something
George says:
we dont have them
George says:
they were pointed to our ip way before we were around and why stop the traffic
Ron says:
true
Ron says:
so if youre not down more than 400 youre cool?
George says:
yes, no settlement
Ron says:
and settlements are every wednesday night?
Ron says:
or sunday night?
George says:
week ends sunday, we send checks on weds
Ron says:
i see
Ron says:
interesting, well - thanks for your time
George says:
ok

Substitute the name George for Tony Soprano and the picture becomes clearer. Especially the bolded part.

[pimike]

You don't pay you wil be on the "Porn" list of deadbeats!!

So if you have no plans of paying your loses don't borrow from them its that simple. Just becuse it is a gambling loan doesn't mean you shouldn't pay.

[Panic]

By OSGA:


Credit Wagering
By Sportsbook Advocate
Mar 6, 2008, 14:37

Email this article
Printer friendly page


This website was created in December 2007 and their registration expires in December 2008. The creditwagering.com website has no phone numbers to contact and though they claim they are in Costa Rica, there is no valid information filed within their Internet registration.

The website registration or sign-up page asks for the last four numbers of your Social Security number, your birthdate and a common security question, in addition to the usual name and address info. They are dangling the credit carrot to phish player information.....there is no other explanation for this. STAY AWAY
Copyright 2008 OSGA, LLC

[runnershane14]

Alright so whats the deal guys? Has anyone got paid and verified a copy of the check with Bill Dozer yet? How long does sbr wait to put a rating on these guys?

[pimike]

The are at a b right now untill proven otherwise. No one has not been paid whofollowed all rules. None

[altoon]

I requested a withdrawl 03/19 and still have not recieved a check. In fairness mine was sent to a p.o. box by regular mail.

[TLD]

I would strongly suggest that people be very wary of this outfit.

Obviously the “business model” makes zero sense. Very few people who play with this book and lose will be honorable enough to pay their debt; there will always be a way for stiffs to rationalize stiffing, as evidenced in this very threat. So the book’s income is going to be close to zero.

And unless they’re utterly retarded, they know that. So there’s something else going on. Many possibilities have been raised, some more plausible than others, and some more potentially dangerous than others. I have no idea which is the accurate one, but I don’t recommend getting involved with them and finding out the hard way which one it turns out to be.

As far as the “payments,” keep in mind several things:

1. Almost all the reports of payments have been by posters with virtually no previous posts. For whatever reason there are a great number of newbies to all these sites who were inspired to sign up and share with the world their consistently positive experiences at this book, and to assure everyone that they are definitely paying out. Take that for what it’s worth.

2. In a Ponzi scheme, early investors are paid in order to generate more trust from them and others. The scammers do not just pretend to pay or lie and say they will pay; they in fact do pay. So it’s entirely possible some early payouts are going out, and that it’s still a scam. A book like this could pay 20 people $1,000 each in order to get them and 180 others to cough up their personal information. So they wouldn’t end up paying $1,000 a head for it, but $100.

So it doesn’t have to be the case that everyone claiming to have been paid is lying or is a plant they sent in. The book might really be paying in the early stages and still be bogus. Or it could be a combination of both: They might be making a handful of legitimate payouts, and then augmenting that by sending in sham posters to give the impression there are a lot more payouts going out.

3. This is a point I really think needs to be driven home not just concerning this book, but banking in general, because it’s one of the main ways people lose so much to Nigerian scammers and such:

A bank accepting a check, cashing a check, “partially” cashing a check, etc. is NOT a guarantee that the check is good, or that they’re accepting responsibility for it if it is not. You will sometimes be paid for a bad check. But subsequently, when it’s been discovered it was bad, you’ll be liable to give the money back. So don’t breathe a sigh of relief when a check “clears” and think you’re now at zero risk.

Because there are many reasons your bank might accept a check from you and pay you, even though they don’t yet know for sure it’s good. One is simply that you have a large enough balance in your account to cover it. So even though it feels like you’re “cashing” the check, what’s really happening in effect is that you’re depositing the check and withdrawing an equal amount of your own money.

But even when your bank truly does release the money from the check to you, you’re not fully in the clear. Banks are playing the percentages and balancing different goals. For example, for a certain type of check deposited by a certain kind of customer, it may be that if they haven’t gotten any evidence of a problem within five days, that 98% of the time there’s no problem with the check. So they deem the check “cleared” after five days, and you have access to the money. But if they find out later your check is in the 2%, they’ll take the money right back. (In answer to the question of why don’t banks then wait until the evidence is closer to 100% that the check is good, first, they want to keep their customers happy by not having overly long hold periods, and second, certain banking regulations have been put in place over the years precisely to prevent banks erring too far on the side of “safety” and locking up people’s funds indefinitely.)

Again, this goes beyond just this book. When the Nigerians and their ilk send phony checks to people and ask for some much smaller amount in return, the way people get bilked is they think, “Ah ha! I’m no dummy! I won’t send them the money they want until I see if my bank will take their check.” Then they deposit the check, it “clears,” they send money to Nigeria, the bank finds out later the original check was bad after all, and the person now has to reimburse the bank for the phony check they deposited.

But to get back to this book, don’t be misled that these reports of received payments somehow outweigh the overwhelming evidence that this book’s “business model” is absurd and they can’t possibly operate indefinitely in the manner they claim. Because, one, some or most of the reports might be phony, two, the payouts might be part of a small Ponzi batch of legitimate early payouts to build trust that will quickly cease, and/or, three, some or all of the checks might be found out later to be bogus.

[pokernut9999]

I am amazed at all the people that win the max $1000 with $100 limits. That is quit a feat in a weeks time.

[robmpink]

I'm down $800 from last week. I'll be sending them a ** for 1/2 at the least while they still have the 'pay HALF NCAA promo". They paid me so I'm not going to stiff them. Also I don't want to be part of their collections. If they really do have an aggressive collection third party I don't want any part of it. I'll let you know when I send in my ** to them. Funny, how I will be the 1st (when I actually send in the **) poster who will actually pay them in this entire post. I'm sure everyone isn't in the $399 level. When the reports start coming in on the aggresive collections tactics, I'll laugh.

[SexyMit]

I am up 350 right now I've been playing for a couple of weeks... It has taken me that long to get that far up. I get on a streak then lose it again. But if I was to go -400 I would pay them. I just hope that I get +400 the rest of the week so I can cash out and them send me a check.

[VivaJG]

I received my check today for $1,000.

It was sent 3/28 via Overnight mail... It actually came yesterday I guess but I wasn't home...

Looks good.

[Iwinyourmoney]

hmmmm weird. They must have forgot to send your friday and sent it monday overtnight to save face? I dunno. Mine hasnt arrived yet

[pimike]

I am in the waiting boat also. No check as of yet I also have request another this week. I have one approved one pending. I'm sure I will get it. Would feel so much better when I do.

I paid so they should pay! I didn't think they sent them out overnight mail. I thought it was regular mail or DHL. Thats what I was told on live chat.

[Iwinyourmoney]

ya. From what others said last week, it came on wednesday. No check in the mail today

[pimike]

We will get no reason at this time not too.

[pimike]

I just got off of live chat and they stated my money was sent via mail

[Iwinyourmoney]

ya they told me that last week. Your money will be there by Friday at the latest I bet, but everyone reports they get their money on wednesdays. Money comes from toronto

[pimike]

ya they told me that last week. Your money will be there by Friday at the latest I bet, but everyone reports they get their money on wednesdays. Money comes from toronto

So wed - Friday I will see it. Sounds about right. To be honest I have never used a book that mailed the checks. You wager and other books I have used always sent if FED ex next day.

[2Pac]

I lost and I am not ****ing paying them a cent.

This book is fishy as **** and I have subscribed to a service that watches my credit report.

[robmpink]

I lost and I am not ****ing paying them a cent.

This book is fishy as **** and I have subscribed to a service that watches me

Nice excuse. The service that watches you can't do anything about loans you signed up for. Hopefully for your sake you didn't use any of your real info or home computer. If so, you may be in for a suprise.

It kind of defeats the purpose using fake info anyway. You won't get paid if you win.

[Iwinyourmoney]

2pac thats sad. I hope you get stiffed by a book

[erybdyducksth]

2pac your a joke, they paid me just like they said there were, the guys are friendly and apologetic. I hope you get f-over bad. Your a clown you little b*tch

[picantel]

I would strongly suggest that people be very wary of this outfit.

Obviously the “business model” makes zero sense. Very few people who play with this book and lose will be honorable enough to pay their debt; there will always be a way for stiffs to rationalize stiffing, as evidenced in this very threat. So the book’s income is going to be close to zero.

And unless they’re utterly retarded, they know that. So there’s something else going on. Many possibilities have been raised, some more plausible than others, and some more potentially dangerous than others. I have no idea which is the accurate one, but I don’t recommend getting involved with them and finding out the hard way which one it turns out to be.

As far as the “payments,” keep in mind several things:

1. Almost all the reports of payments have been by posters with virtually no previous posts. For whatever reason there are a great number of newbies to all these sites who were inspired to sign up and share with the world their consistently positive experiences at this book, and to assure everyone that they are definitely paying out. Take that for what it’s worth.

2. In a Ponzi scheme, early investors are paid in order to generate more trust from them and others. The scammers do not just pretend to pay or lie and say they will pay; they in fact do pay. So it’s entirely possible some early payouts are going out, and that it’s still a scam. A book like this could pay 20 people $1,000 each in order to get them and 180 others to cough up their personal information. So they wouldn’t end up paying $1,000 a head for it, but $100.

So it doesn’t have to be the case that everyone claiming to have been paid is lying or is a plant they sent in. The book might really be paying in the early stages and still be bogus. Or it could be a combination of both: They might be making a handful of legitimate payouts, and then augmenting that by sending in sham posters to give the impression there are a lot more payouts going out.

3. This is a point I really think needs to be driven home not just concerning this book, but banking in general, because it’s one of the main ways people lose so much to Nigerian scammers and such:

A bank accepting a check, cashing a check, “partially” cashing a check, etc. is NOT a guarantee that the check is good, or that they’re accepting responsibility for it if it is not. You will sometimes be paid for a bad check. But subsequently, when it’s been discovered it was bad, you’ll be liable to give the money back. So don’t breathe a sigh of relief when a check “clears” and think you’re now at zero risk.

Because there are many reasons your bank might accept a check from you and pay you, even though they don’t yet know for sure it’s good. One is simply that you have a large enough balance in your account to cover it. So even though it feels like you’re “cashing” the check, what’s really happening in effect is that you’re depositing the check and withdrawing an equal amount of your own money.

But even when your bank truly does release the money from the check to you, you’re not fully in the clear. Banks are playing the percentages and balancing different goals. For example, for a certain type of check deposited by a certain kind of customer, it may be that if they haven’t gotten any evidence of a problem within five days, that 98% of the time there’s no problem with the check. So they deem the check “cleared” after five days, and you have access to the money. But if they find out later your check is in the 2%, they’ll take the money right back. (In answer to the question of why don’t banks then wait until the evidence is closer to 100% that the check is good, first, they want to keep their customers happy by not having overly long hold periods, and second, certain banking regulations have been put in place over the years precisely to prevent banks erring too far on the side of “safety” and locking up people’s funds indefinitely.)

Again, this goes beyond just this book. When the Nigerians and their ilk send phony checks to people and ask for some much smaller amount in return, the way people get bilked is they think, “Ah ha! I’m no dummy! I won’t send them the money they want until I see if my bank will take their check.” Then they deposit the check, it “clears,” they send money to Nigeria, the bank finds out later the original check was bad after all, and the person now has to reimburse the bank for the phony check they deposited.

But to get back to this book, don’t be misled that these reports of received payments somehow outweigh the overwhelming evidence that this book’s “business model” is absurd and they can’t possibly operate indefinitely in the manner they claim. Because, one, some or most of the reports might be phony, two, the payouts might be part of a small Ponzi batch of legitimate early payouts to build trust that will quickly cease, and/or, three, some or all of the checks might be found out later to be bogus.

Superb post. One of the best I have seen here by someone who understands the game. A check clearing your bank is not really cleared and will probably not be totally cleared until a month goes by. Available and cleared are 2 different things.

[Shark79]

2pac thats sad. I hope you get stiffed by a book

He already did

[2Pac]

He already did

I will just refer them to BetEd.

[BeatTheJerk]

tupac shukur would of paid his debt ............

[BeatTheJerk]

a man of loyalty .....

[flyingillini]

2pac your a joke, they paid me just like they said there were, the guys are friendly and apologetic. I hope you get f-over bad. Your a clown you little b*tch

Agreed! I hope their collection agency gets you for screwing them over.