1. #176
    KateG.
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    Yes I'm a lady... I Registered from my houseland, I used internet caffe and my private laptop to placed a bet . few times, and thats a reason GV conefiscated my winnings. I had 671e it is not fair due I used another computer to place a bet GV take my winnings. I'm very disappointed and sad that GV treat their customers like me...so no chance to get back my money?:-( very sad story..:-(

  2. #177
    noyb
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    why would you want to bet at an internetcafe in the first place, when you apparently have an internet-connection at home.

    using your password in a public pc is risky from a security point of view and, since every double identity bonus scamming person out there who is caught out with same ip claims he or she was logging in from an "internetcafe", it also makes you suspicious to the book. also, it seems to me to be quite a coincedence someone else in the same internetcafe also happened to be a goldvictory-member, which i assume must have happened for your account to get suspended.

    i'm sure you are telling the truth and everything, and hope it works out for you, but i can't blame goldvictory being suspicious about it, especially if you are not able to provide any further proof to back up your story.

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  3. #178
    APK
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    Quote Originally Posted by noyb View Post
    why would you want to bet at an internetcafe in the first place, when you apparently have an internet-connection at home.
    According to GVstaff2 in a post above you the internetcafe activity is not the issue, so I guess they suspect there might be a Mr. G as well...

  4. #179
    fixxer
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    "why would you want to bet at an internetcafe in the first place, when you apparently have an internet-connection at home. "

    I will answer for this question - without relating to this case - .

    There could be many reasons for this...for example, I have a friend, who only bets from Internet café, because he doesn't want his family, to find out he is betting at bookmakers.

    Also - at least here - there are some sportsbetting internet cafés, used for mainly sportsbetting only (also in many other countries in Europe), and the IC. guarantees the safety of your personal informations...so this way a bettor can safely make bets from an IC.

    That fact that "multiaccount" cheaters nowadays mainly try to argue with that fact, that they are using an internet café...
    .....
    I guess this is true. But come on, you can't think, that a usual bettor have any clue about this!?...Many of the bettors never even heard about SBR, using only 1-2 (often low rated) bookmakers, etc....yes, a professional bettor could have heard about this, but you cannot expect an usual user to know this fact....


    Good luck in solving this problem too....

    Fixxer

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  5. #180
    noyb
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixxer View Post
    I guess this is true. But come on, you can't think, that a usual bettor have any clue about this!?...Many of the bettors never even heard about SBR, using only 1-2 (often low rated) bookmakers, etc....yes, a professional bettor could have heard about this, but you cannot expect an usual user to know this fact....
    it was in their faq, and even a casual user could be expected to read the rules of the place he signed up with.

    but ok, apart from this, if you switch sides, and look at it from the perspective of the bookmaker and not the bettor. you have all these people with ip's similar to others, claiming: i always bet at an internetcafe, look, here's an id to prove who i am.

    a large majority will be lying, creating id after id, taking bonus after bonus and move on to the next account. if a bookmaker should not be allowed to act on matching ip's , what can he still do to protect himself?

    anyway, apk was right this case is apparently not about the internetcafe, but about something else, so this entire discussion might be irrelevant.

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  6. #181
    fixxer
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    As I wrote, my post was NOT about this case....I just answered for a few things you wrote.

    ...simply, it IS possible for somebody to bet from an internet café, and not to be a bonus hunter/cheater, just a honest bettor...actually, I was only betting from an internet café for more than a month 2 years ago, during I moved to another flat, and I had some issue with the net provider, which took a few weeks to solve...I just say, that if someone plays from an internet café - this fact alone only means nothing. Nor "pro", nor "contra".

    Yes, it can, and it must be expected from a user to read the FAQ and rules. (though many "newbie" bettors forget about it)
    Yes, there are many "ID-after-ID-creating" bonus hunters.
    Yes, a bookie has to protect their own interests...BUT they have to take care, to not to "shoot at" anybody suspicious without clear evidences...as this wouldn't bring good reputation for the bookmaker (just as the case of Admiralbet, abt. 5 years ago...)....and NO, this is STILL not about GV....as you wrote, and GvStaff wrote, there is possibly something other behind this case

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  7. #182
    noyb
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixxer View Post
    BUT they have to take care, to not to "shoot at" anybody suspicious without clear evidences...
    ok, but what kind of evidence should the bookmaker have to rightfully close an account. say: you have a customer, who has the same ip as another customer. you confront him and he says: i play at an internetcafe, the other guy must also play there.

    then what? what more evidence is the book supposed to deliver? the book can't prove 100% certain the bettor is lying, and the bettor can't prove to the book he is telling the truth.

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  8. #183
    HeeeHAWWWW
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    Difficult for a book - they offer bonuses, and a flood of fake ID people try doing the same offer ten, twenty times until they get caught, then complain on SBR when they got their money confiscated.

    What level of certainty should they have to take action? To have any level of effectiveness against the scammers, it's going to have to be balance of probabilities rather than proof.

  9. #184
    KateG.
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    I registered from my home ip. I used ÍC only few times in city where I work and I could only bet in IC in these days, rest of them in my home,weekends usually. due fact I place a bet in ÍC I lost my money because someone there logged in in gv also.. I dont know how can I proof my identity and fact I'm a honest player. I can send all document scans, ************, bank statement, id, bills .everything what gv want to be convince I'm clear..

  10. #185
    KateG.
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    gv rules said we can't open account in internet caffe, and it is evidence for multiple account. guys ! I AGREE I registered and placed a bets at my home from my OWN ip, only few times when I wanted to bet something and in that time I was in another city I used IC to placed a bet . and due this gv took my winnings . it's unfair. I did not registered from IC. but they don't care:-(
    Last edited by KateG.; 08-21-08 at 04:14 PM.

  11. #186
    APK
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    Kate, did you actually read the reply the Goldvictory staff member posted above you?

    The fact that you every now and then place a bet from an Internet cafe is NOT the issue.

    I hope he will post here again to try and clarify the matter.

  12. #187
    TruckerJoe
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeeeHAWWWW View Post
    Difficult for a book - they offer bonuses, and a flood of fake ID people try doing the same offer ten, twenty times until they get caught, then complain on SBR when they got their money confiscated.

    What level of certainty should they have to take action? To have any level of effectiveness against the scammers, it's going to have to be balance of probabilities rather than proof.
    But that's just not fair against honest players such as myself and some of the earlier posters on this thread. There must be more effective ways of catching people than their ip address. For example, IE Snare?

  13. #188
    noyb
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckerJoe View Post
    But that's just not fair against honest players such as myself and some of the earlier posters on this thread. There must be more effective ways of catching people than their ip address. For example, IE Snare?
    there are a number of threads on bonushunter-websites providing a step-for-step guide how to prevent iesnare working (which isn't that difficult at all). i'm sure the guys who come up with twenty id's, are the same people who read those threads, so that will problably do very little good.
    ofcourse, same ip is also not that difficult to dodge, but it still seems to me the most effective way of detecting fraud. i'm no expert, but i don't see any other more effective ways.

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  14. #189
    fixxer
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    Those who can avoid IE Snare, can easily avoid the IP problem...there are many ways to cheat this (I know a few things about computers, as this was my previous job - informatician -)...."professional bonus hunters" , - not the amateur ones - are very hard to catch for the bookies...

    But it would seem a little unjust for me, if somebody opens an account from a "never used" IP, and than a few times plays from an IP , which was used by another account a few hours - days ago, and this leads to losing all his balance...

    ...tho GVStaff wrote, that multiple events have to occur for an account to be called a multi acc, not just this "once" story....

    ...as GVStaff wrote, this case about Kate is about something else...

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  15. #190
    APK
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckerJoe View Post
    But that's just not fair against honest players such as myself and some of the earlier posters on this thread. There must be more effective ways of catching people than their ip address. For example, IE Snare?
    As far as I remember from reading this thread, and other threads concerning goldvictory, you seem to me to be the only genuine victim of their detection system.

    Women gambling / betting, give me a break.
    Edit: Okay, in the UK there seem to be a few Bingo-addicts.

    Sorry, but I give goldvictory the benefit of the doubt here.
    I just hope they will log in and shine their light on the cases that have erupted lately.

    If you do a google search on 'goldvictory', threads on SBR are the 2nd hit, so it would be useful for them as well to clear this matter.

    And yes, I have an account there as well and I've never had problems with (small) withdrawals.
    I've still got money there, but I'm not an active player because their odds are way below average.
    Last edited by APK; 08-21-08 at 09:22 PM.

  16. #191
    KateG.
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    APK how can you judge me? am I to call to proof I'm a lady or something? this is what I was affroid .it's the easier way to call me a lier because I'm a women and for sure someone has multiple account on wifes girlfriend,friend etc . and tell me how can I proof that I'm just only a honest player who wanted use great bonus 200e? GV stole my hard worked out money and I'M lost because I'm a lady and they know I won't win with them. great ...

  17. #192
    SBR Lou
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    Quote Originally Posted by noyb View Post
    why would you want to bet at an internetcafe in the first place, when you apparently have an internet-connection at home.

    using your password in a public pc is risky from a security point of view and, since every double identity bonus scamming person out there who is caught out with same ip claims he or she was logging in from an "internetcafe", it also makes you suspicious to the book. also, it seems to me to be quite a coincedence someone else in the same internetcafe also happened to be a goldvictory-member, which i assume must have happened for your account to get suspended.

    i'm sure you are telling the truth and everything, and hope it works out for you, but i can't blame goldvictory being suspicious about it, especially if you are not able to provide any further proof to back up your story.
    Pretty sharp post.

  18. #193
    holy grail
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixxer View Post
    Those who can avoid IE Snare, can easily avoid the IP problem...there are many ways to cheat this (I know a few things about computers, as this was my previous job - informatician -)...."professional bonus hunters" , - not the amateur ones - are very hard to catch for the bookies...

    But it would seem a little unjust for me, if somebody opens an account from a "never used" IP, and than a few times plays from an IP , which was used by another account a few hours - days ago, and this leads to losing all his balance...

    ...tho GVStaff wrote, that multiple events have to occur for an account to be called a multi acc, not just this "once" story....

    ...as GVStaff wrote, this case about Kate is about something else...

    What is IE Snare please?

  19. #194
    noyb
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixxer View Post
    Those who can avoid IE Snare, can easily avoid the IP problem...there are many ways to cheat this (I know a few things about computers, as this was my previous job - informatician -)...."professional bonus hunters" , - not the amateur ones - are very hard to catch for the bookies...

    But it would seem a little unjust for me, if somebody opens an account from a "never used" IP, and than a few times plays from an IP , which was used by another account a few hours - days ago, and this leads to losing all his balance...

    ...tho GVStaff wrote, that multiple events have to occur for an account to be called a multi acc, not just this "once" story....

    ...as GVStaff wrote, this case about Kate is about something else...
    yeah, true, but this thread has evolved beyond this case it seems. i read kate's case is actually solved already.

    anyway, i'm still curious, also since you seem to know a lot about the it-business. a bookie finds a matching ip between customers, what kind of extra proof should they provide (and should they be reasonably be able to provide) in your opinion before closing the account is justified?

    i can't think of anything to be honest (except almost spyware-like stuff like iesnare or something else to prove the same computer was used, which in the case of an internetcafe also tells us nothing.. who knows, some poor guy places a bet, and two hours later someone else uses the exact same computer on the same website, what a coincedence still no 100% proof).

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  20. #195
    noyb
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    Quote Originally Posted by holy grail View Post
    What is IE Snare please?
    http://www.redorbit.com/news/technol...ring_one_week/ and bodog is not the only one using it.

    in my opinion it's "white collar" spyware, it invades someones privacy and any book with some ethics shouldn't use it, but that's not the point here.

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  21. #196
    fixxer
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    Wow, we are really starting to "OFF" this topic

    Not an easy question, how to avoid, or decrease the registrations of bonus hunters - I am sure SBR can answer this question far better -...there are a few ways, of course there isn't any perfect solution...

    A few bookie only pay their generous bonuses to credit card depositors - name have to match with the name on CC -, just like Expekt (well, during the Olympics they have moneybookers dep.bon. , but usually not), Paddy Power, Sportingbet etc... and it should be a lot harder to get "fake" ************, than to create another moneybookers accounts, and ask friends to loan an ID card for a scan.
    This is a very good solution IMHO, I know, it would decrease the number of users, but mostly the fake ones...

    A few bookie (Party Bets) gives you a phone call (of course they ask for your ID too) before your first withdrawal to make a verification procedure via phone - and just then, not any other time -, and ask you a few questions about your account...so this way they scare away the 90 year old "sportsbetting grandma" and "girlfriend" users, and a couple other...

    Bet365 had an ID procedure, that they sent out a postal mail, which you had to fill in, and send back (scanned, and as an email attachment) - this is another way to decrease bonus hunters too...

    Many bookmakers choose to decline to give their bonus to risky countries, just like Eastern European ones, China, Malaysia etc...hard to say this (as I am from Eastern Europe too), but this isn't a bad idea at all...betting habits are not the same here I guess.

    About the IT solutions...now THAT'S a very hard question, as there are a couple of spyware-like softwares, but I guess using these will soon cause a serious legal problem...at least, I am sure, if a bookmaker based here would start using a similar thing, soon their ass will be sued to the ground (tho as you know, the legal system is different in most part of Europe, than the one in the U.S.) as this counts as seriously violating the personal privacy...

    The one question, which I was thinking about, why is that, that a major bookmaker never tried (If I know well...) to scare off fake users and cheaters by suing a few 100% sure case, and post a few results on the website...my guess is, that this would work a lot...All bookies have in their rules "if.....we start a legal action bla bla..."....I never heard, that a bookmaker really choosed this way, except some exceptional cases...maybe this should work to scare bonus hunters.....maybe not. I know, overseas legal action is not an easy thing to do...but a few examples, to show, that no cheaters are safe, would work IMHO...

    A question to SBR:

    As Creditwagering was promoted a lot by (paid?) forum users, I gave a look to their website (never had an intention to register, and my country is not even allowed to register just I was curious), and I found an interesting line:

    "CreditWagering.com reserves the right to turn over all of your personal information to any online gaming negative databases. "

    This is an interesting addition...any of these gaming negative databases exists? If yes, maybe that could be a solution too...

    Fixxer

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  22. #197
    GVstaff2
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    Hi All,

    Thank you all for the posts and for the assistance you are offering to this forum.

    I don’t need to explain any further as most of you answered better than I would have ever answered.

    With regards to KateG.

    You admitted that you had broken the rules by betting from an internet café! So why play yourself innocent?

    Furthermore note that what you stated in your first email is complete opposite to what you stated here.

    Once more note that! GV NEVER stated that we have with your Internet Café IP! But we have issues with a specific fixed IP.

    Thanks for your understanding and once more thank to everyone in this forum for the assistance.

    Rgs
    GV

  23. #198
    KateG.
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    GVstaff you misunderstood me, I knew I can't register in internet caffe, I didn't know I can't place any bets in IC . It is not solution- if someone for example register in gv from house ip and then goes on holiday and want to place a bet ?just can't?or if he/she ís in another city or live in academichouse? better solution is a phonecall like partybet or post mail bet365and if you would choice this way you would be know that I'm a honest player

  24. #199
    GVstaff2
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    I will assit you tomorrow please.

  25. #200
    petru
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    Sorry but this reason with "same ip" is ridiculous.
    How can they prove that someone is using another ip as another client.

    So anyone can go and open a bookmaker and don't pay winner clients for "your using another ip as another client" reason

  26. #201
    petru
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    Btw many people use modems, wireless, etc. with dynamic ip.
    Or companies often change the ip class.

    So this shitty rule is just another scam for bookies to steal some more money from clients

  27. #202
    KateG.
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    yes I agre with Petru. In my country most popular net provider is neostrada . customers get a modem and dynamic ip . you can open account in GV then reset modem and you have another ip and can open account in gv again. I found on some forum this trick use a lot of bonus hunter. but gv won't take their money because of their rule ,but they can stealing honest player from their winnings
    is that fair?

  28. #203
    KateG.
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    I spent a lot of time to search forums and contact with many bonus hunters. what I found out? whem they find multiple account from one ip they block only that one where is a big winnings,rest of account they don't touch. they are waiting when customer doposit and win then they will react. and tell me gv why bonus hunters with dynamic ip with 5 account stealing you from your 200e bonus and you do nothing and you steal honest player ?is that fair?

  29. #204
    KateG.
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    I'M still waiting from sbr Bill I still belive he will be able to help me. I can do everything to prove my identity I can call , send eyerything what is necessary. I Won't let gv just steal my hard work out winning and stupid explaining when in that time real bonus hunters are laugting with them and open 10th account. If I would like to open multiple account I Would use neostrada with dynamic ip most friends have it!just think gv! them judge!

  30. #205
    GVstaff2
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    Dear KateG,

    It seems that you still missed the whole point of your case. As promised I will assist till the end so for the fourth time kindly note that your account was not locked due to internet cafe. We have an issues with your so called home IP.In other words forget about the internet café as it has NOTHING to do.

    When I wrote about the internet café I tried to explain that when you risk using internet café you are risking your bonus and your account.

    As explained server times on this forum we don’t lock any account for just a single IP conflict, there is at least 3 days of suspect and 3 days of monitoring before any action is taken. I believe that it is more wise to read others posts before posting into forums as it might retort on to yourself.

    With regards to your comment “ they block only that one where is a big winnings, rest of account they don't touch.” it made me smile, I can’t imagine myself reporting to the lottery and gaming authority Malta that I locked your account cause of conflicts and then I don’t list the others cause they are losing money. Note that when you lock an account you have to prove all evidence to the LGA Malta. The evidence must also incorporate what actions had been taken, who are the users in conflict and how did you refund them. For LGA Malta it is irrelevant if the customers is winning big, small or none, what they strictly requests is that all accounts are to be refunded.

    If you still want to insist that you where locked due to internet café use and cause you had 300Euros BIG winnings. Then I’m sorry but I don’t believe that I can assist you any further as I can’t prove evidence on something that day by day is being manipulated at your own like to bad advertise our company.

    From this forum it is clearly understandable that really genuine cases had been given a second change while other that where really unlucky where reinstated back after even being refund back their deposit. You case is a different story at all, we have enough evidence that you had been linked to more than one account with one specific IP.

    Once more if you still have more questions I will be more then pleased to assist you.

    Rgs
    GV

  31. #206
    GVstaff2
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    Dear Petru,

    Check the below, once done please tell me what you think.

    The below only shows login. (note users and IP are modified due to privacy)

    ID Date Time IP

    User 1 15.01.2008 15:03 10.0.0.1
    User 2 15.01.2008 15:05 10.0.0.1
    User 2 15.01.2008 16:30 10.0.0.1
    User 1 15.01.2008 16:33 10.0.0.1
    User 1 16.01.2008 09:11 10.0.0.1
    User 1 16.01.2008 09:21 10.0.0.1
    User 2 16.01.2008 09:25 10.0.0.1
    User 1 16.01.2008 09:27 10.0.0.1
    User 2 16.01.2008 09:31 10.0.0.1
    User 1 17.01.2008 22:13 10.0.0.1
    User 2 17.01.2008 22:30 10.0.0.1
    User 1 17.01.2008 22:45 10.0.0.1
    User 2 17.01.2008 22:53 10.0.0.1
    User 2 17.01.2008 22:56 10.0.0.1
    User 1 17.01.2008 23:05 10.0.0.1
    User 1 18.01.2008 20:11 10.0.0.1
    User 1 18.01.2008 20:25 10.0.0.1

    This is shows login’s and logout, just to understand how it looks like. (note users and IP are modified)

    ID Date Time IP L

    User 1 16.01.2008 09:21:01 10.0.0.1 In
    User 1 16.01.2008 09:24:11 10.0.0.1 Out
    User 2 16.01.2008 09:25:45 10.0.0.1 In
    User 1 16.01.2008 09:27:51 10.0.0.1 Out
    User 2 16.01.2008 09:31:03 10.0.0.1 IN

    Note that I gave you only 4 days logs imagine this pattern for 6 days, and in addition note that when user1 changes IP to 10.0.0.2 the User2 changes IP to 10.0.0.2 as well and the pattern of login and out keeps the same.

    I believe the I answered you for the above statement;

    **************************************** ******
    Sorry but this reason with "same ip" is ridiculous.
    How can they prove that someone is using another ip as another client.
    **************************************** ******

    Some users imagine that if you used IP 10.0.0.1 a month ago and someone used that IP today we do lock your account. You can be assured that if we do so we would close all dynamic accounts which is 70% of our customers. With the above logs you can easily understand that both users are the same persons but still note that IP process is just the first part of the procedures. Just note then when browsing a site each single action is logged and detailed including seconds.

    Once more thanks for your participation.

    Rgs
    GV

  32. #207
    GVstaff2
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    Dear APK and noby,

    Thanks for assisting KateG and for your help in this forum. As you had been really helpful I would like to give you something in return. Please contact me on forums@goldvictory.com and provide me your user ID’s.

    Fixxer thanks for your help as well, next time I ll include you once more

    Rgs
    GV

  33. #208
    APK
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVstaff2 View Post
    Dear APK and noby,

    Thanks for assisting KateG and for your help in this forum. As you had been really helpful I would like to give you something in return. Please contact me on forums@goldvictory.com and provide me your user ID’s.

    Fixxer thanks for your help as well, next time I ll include you once more

    Rgs
    GV
    Hi GVstaff2,

    Thanks for the kind offer but it's not necessary to give me anything in return for offering my opinion.

    Much appreciated but I like to keep the freedom to comment on cases, whichever way my opinion may lean.

  34. #209
    KateG.
    KateG.'s Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 08-20-08
    Posts: 16

    GV staff you didn't answer what about bonus hunters who open 10 account and stealing you bonuses? from dynamic IP. I reapet If I would like to cheat you I would just use dynamic IP. You can maniplulate IP configuration to clear GV but that people who will come in here will see that GV just stealing their customers

    Thats all

  35. #210
    GVstaff2
    GVstaff2's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-11-08
    Posts: 77

    Dear KateG,

    I already answered your question in full. Kindly read post #206. I did not only answer your question about dynamic IP but I provide you with a specific case including IP’s and Logs. Post 206 was placed so that you can understand better, but it looks like that you still misunderstood.

    I like the comment about manipulating IP’s to clear GV.

    Please refer to www.wikipedia.com for more info about IP origination. Note that the IP is provided by your internet provider not by GV.

    In addition I already noted that four times that we have an issues with one of your IP’s and I already sent it to you via email. In addition you are free to paste here your IP so that everyone can check the origination. With regards to bonus hunters, dynamic, static IP and other topics I don’t believe they have anything to do with your case. Please stick to your case in order for GV and SBR to assist you, so far we no one understood what is your stand.

    Furthermore you stated “repeat If I would like to cheat you I would just use dynamic IP” can you confirm if your so called houseland IP is fixed or dynamic cause so far we understood that you where using dynamic IP but with this statement you indirectly stated that you use static. Can you please clarify? If you use a static IP that will change the view of your position.

    If you are using a static, kindly please do confirm that the IP sent to you by GV is yours and that it is static you are welcome to address it to forums@goldvictory.com

    Rgs
    GV

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