[UntilTheNDofTimE]

I play poker about 30 hours a week between live and online i wish i was 21 to apply for this. Are these normal? it dosent state the cardroom so im assuming its a small one because most of the ones i go too wudnt need this because there full at night.


Do you love to play poker? Would you like to get paid to play the game you love, while learning new skills and improving your overall game? Our cardroom is currently looking for Proposition (Prop) Players to join our team, and add to our games.



Proposition players are cardroom employees who help ensure there are poker games continuously available to cardroom patrons. Proposition players (or “props”) will fill empty seats at short tables, help start new tables and generally help ensure that patrons will be able to play poker in the cardroom at all times.



You will use your own funds to play, and are responsible for your own losses, in addition to keeping any winnings. You will be an employee of our cardroom and you must be very respectful of the fellow cardroom patrons and dealers. You must be able to afford stakes of 2/5 No Limit, 1/3 No Limit, 4/8 Limit, and 6/12 Limit.



Currently we are looking to add Prop Players to our Grave shift, hours between 2AM and 10AM.



Compensation 20.00 per hour.

Please send your resume and a brief detail of your poker experience to: propositionplayer@gmail.com

[freeVICK]

wow is this a casino or online?

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

Its a card room in sacramento. The add dosent state which one but im going to apply to the ad t just try to figure out what card room it is. There are 6 casinos and 10+ card rooms in the sacramento area so i want to know which one it is.

[OmgUrMom]

Yep fairly normal for some casinos that have a tough time keeping the tables going. They are basically just giving you your rake back, plus a little extra, so they aren't getting killed on this deal or anything. If you keep the table alive they are making at least 100+ an hour in rake.....

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

So do they just want you to play your normal game or play super aggressive to get some rake in there?

of course it depends on what kind of rake the casino takes. 5% or like 3-$5 per hand like some card rooms do.

[OmgUrMom]

you can play however you want, although if you play a supper nitty style maybe they would re-consider. I certainly wouldn't play super aggressive though, as at those stakes you would probably just end up throwing some of your $20 per hour back to the table. Unless your referring to super tight/aggressive which is the best style 4 these low stakes games.

Honestly you can crush 1/2, and 2/5 while opening a very small range of hands. People don't catch on, you can fold every hand for 2 hours straight (which will happen when you only get 30-40 hands an hour) get a premium starting hand and still get 3+ callers after you raise 8 bbs preflop lol. Games are ripe for the taking. If you know what you are doing you should make AT LEAST $30 an hour and wouldn't be surprised if you made $40, that is including your $20 of course.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

you can play however you want, although if you play a supper nitty style maybe they would re-consider. I certainly wouldn't play super aggressive though, as at those stakes you would probably just end up throwing some of your $20 per hour back to the table. Unless your referring to super tight/aggressive which is the best style 4 these low stakes games.

Honestly you can crush 1/2, and 2/5 while opening a very small range of hands. People don't catch on, you can fold every hand for 2 hours straight (which will happen when you only get 30-40 hands an hour) get a premium starting hand and still get 3+ callers after you raise 8 bbs preflop lol. Games are ripe for the taking. If you know what you are doing you should make AT LEAST $30 an hour and wouldn't be surprised if you made $40, that is including your $20 of course.

Yea I understand all that. 1-3 and 3-6 NL is what i primarily play and make money very consistently. Obviously there is variance but my main thing is im going to be playing poker anyways so i wouldnt mind making a extra $20/hr on the side. Although this is probably at a tiny card room that has decent players vs the donk city that i play in where if you play your position alone you can push most people off.

I'll probably look into it in a few months when i turn 21 for adds like this. I have my fake ID but for a casino/card room job theyll probably definitely need a SSN and do a background check.

[GiveMeaBJ]

I have been dealing at card games since about two years ago and actually had one in my basement for quite sometime. This is more common then you think. Even the biggest card rooms need help early on a Friday night until the degens roll through. Most card halls I worked for would hire 2 dealers per table. One would deal and the other would be these "props" as they call it. We wouldn't get paid an hourly wage but we would always have 25% of our buy in compensated if we lost along with the other benefits that come with it (easy loan access from the house if you need it). It's actually not as great as it sounds. I have stopped doing this simply because it is unprofitable for someone like me. It may work for you. But, I play a ton of poker online and off and I found that usually when I would be the "prop" player it would effect my head as some nights I just wouldn't want to play or would go up early and have a huge stack in front of me that I can't take off the table so I end up sitting there all night long until the game breaks at 6am and by then I am very lucky to not have lost it. It's just tough to play your same level of poker when you are being told when you have to play, where, against whom, and when you can stop. Overall, $20.00/hour isn't nearly enough to do this every night at the NL stakes listed. You will be in a whole before you know it.

[OmgUrMom]

yea, don't try and get the job till your 21. What casino offers 3/6 NL? Never seen or heard of this before(except online, you play a lot online?)...I take it some Sacramento casino if not online....

[GiveMeaBJ]

you can play however you want, although if you play a supper nitty style maybe they would re-consider. I certainly wouldn't play super aggressive though, as at those stakes you would probably just end up throwing some of your $20 per hour back to the table. Unless your referring to super tight/aggressive which is the best style 4 these low stakes games.

Honestly you can crush 1/2, and 2/5 while opening a very small range of hands. People don't catch on, you can fold every hand for 2 hours straight (which will happen when you only get 30-40 hands an hour) get a premium starting hand and still get 3+ callers after you raise 8 bbs preflop lol. Games are ripe for the taking. If you know what you are doing you should make AT LEAST $30 an hour and wouldn't be surprised if you made $40, that is including your $20 of course.

Are you kidding? Nits are grat for the house. Trust me the worst thing you can have is 9 maniacs at a table. Too many busts. The nits keep the game going for longer and will keep the stacks on the table. I don't know about casinos but in these card halls the nits are the only reason they can run a game for as long as they do 7 days a week.

[GiveMeaBJ]

Wait is this at a casino? Or a card hall/underground game type thing?

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

OMGurmom

1-3 live is all i play. The only games that are offered live are 1-2 NL 1-3 NL 1-2 NL with 4 buck minimum call, 2-5 NL, 5-8NL, and 5-10NL. I dont quit have the bankroll to play 5-8 or 5-10 consistently although i do play it from time to time. And 1-3 does get a lot of action since here in sacramento and california in general you are allowed to buy in for whatever the chip leader has

Online I mainly play 3-6 and 2-4 but mainly 3-6.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

givemeaBJ

it didnt say on the ad but its most likely a cardroom. There all legal here so there not underground. as i said theres 10+ cardrooms and 6 casinos just in the sacramento vicinity.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

I have been dealing at card games since about two years ago and actually had one in my basement for quite sometime. This is more common then you think. Even the biggest card rooms need help early on a Friday night until the degens roll through. Most card halls I worked for would hire 2 dealers per table. One would deal and the other would be these "props" as they call it. We wouldn't get paid an hourly wage but we would always have 25% of our buy in compensated if we lost along with the other benefits that come with it (easy loan access from the house if you need it). It's actually not as great as it sounds. I have stopped doing this simply because it is unprofitable for someone like me. It may work for you. But, I play a ton of poker online and off and I found that usually when I would be the "prop" player it would effect my head as some nights I just wouldn't want to play or would go up early and have a huge stack in front of me that I can't take off the table so I end up sitting there all night long until the game breaks at 6am and by then I am very lucky to not have lost it. It's just tough to play your same level of poker when you are being told when you have to play, where, against whom, and when you can stop. Overall, $20.00/hour isn't nearly enough to do this every night at the NL stakes listed. You will be in a whole before you know it.

Thanks for the input,

[OmgUrMom]

I have been dealing at card games since about two years ago and actually had one in my basement for quite sometime. This is more common then you think. Even the biggest card rooms need help early on a Friday night until the degens roll through. Most card halls I worked for would hire 2 dealers per table. One would deal and the other would be these "props" as they call it. We wouldn't get paid an hourly wage but we would always have 25% of our buy in compensated if we lost along with the other benefits that come with it (easy loan access from the house if you need it). It's actually not as great as it sounds. I have stopped doing this simply because it is unprofitable for someone like me. It may work for you. But, I play a ton of poker online and off and I found that usually when I would be the "prop" player it would effect my head as some nights I just wouldn't want to play or would go up early and have a huge stack in front of me that I can't take off the table so I end up sitting there all night long until the game breaks at 6am and by then I am very lucky to not have lost it. It's just tough to play your same level of poker when you are being told when you have to play, where, against whom, and when you can stop. Overall, $20.00/hour isn't nearly enough to do this every night at the NL stakes listed. You will be in a whole before you know it.

it's good to have a word of caution as well although i don't necessarily agree with this. It all depends how you approach it, if you approach it like you would any other job (plus have good poker skills already) then you can make very good money at it. If you show up for you 2 A.M. shift having not slept for 20 hours or something, well yes then there most certainly will be problems.

Keys to pulling this off:

1. Have the poker skills needed (it's hard to judge this accurately for most people, but if you have kept good records of your sessions you should be able to answer this for yourself)

2. Approach it like any other job, you can't treat this like a joke and you are gonna have to take it seriously and try to play your A game as much as possible.

If you can do those things I can see you being very successful at this. Of course there are a million more factors to consider, but those are just a couple major points.

[GiveMeaBJ]

givemeaBJ

it didnt say on the ad but its most likely a cardroom. There all legal here so there not underground. as i said theres 10+ cardrooms and 6 casinos just in the sacramento vicinity.

Then from my experience they will have no problem with any style you want to play and it probably isn't worth the $20/hour they are offering if the hours are strict. There is just too much they want you to do. They want you to play nights you don't really want to, if you bust they want you to rebuy, if you go up early your going to be there until the game breaks or your stack is gone, and if you ever want to cash out you can't until the game fills.

It's just not a profitable situation for a good player. Knowing when to play and when not too and when to get up and when to go back in is just as much a part of being a good player as playing your players right.

[GiveMeaBJ]

it's good to have a word of caution as well although i don't necessarily agree with this. It all depends how you approach it, if you approach it like you would any other job (plus have good poker skills already) then you can make very good money at it. If you show up for you 2 A.M. shift having not slept for 20 hours or something, well yes then there most certainly will be problems.

Keys to pulling this off:

1. Have the poker skills needed (it's hard to judge this accurately for most people, but if you have kept good records of your sessions you should be able to answer this for yourself)

2. Approach it like any other job, you can't treat this like a joke and you are gonna have to take it seriously and try to play your A game as much as possible.

If you can do those things I can see you being very successful at this. Of course there are a million more factors to consider, but those are just a couple major points.

Yes, it is definitley something that can work for someone and make them extra money on the side but all I was saying was that it didn't work for me. If you are the type of guy who can play your A game 100% of the time then this is perfect for you. If you never go on tilt and stick to your game all day then this is perfect.

Unfortunatley, I only bring my A game like 60% of the time. If I don't hit cards for a while I try to force the action and if my stack goes down a bit I force it. If you have good discipline and can bring the heat everynight then do it. But be honest with yourself if you think you can't.

[OmgUrMom]

Then from my experience they will have no problem with any style you want to play and it probably isn't worth the $20/hour they are offering if the hours are strict. There is just too much they want you to do. They want you to play nights you don't really want to, if you bust they want you to rebuy, if you go up early your going to be there until the game breaks or your stack is gone, and if you ever want to cash out you can't until the game fills.

It's just not a profitable situation for a good player. Knowing when to play and when not too and when to get up and when to go back in is just as much a part of being a good player as playing your players right.

not playing the limits he is(if he was playing 5/10+ i would agree with you), $20 per hour should about double his win-rate (total $ per hour). Doubling your win-rate is huge. Honestly it will hard for him to have any break-even stretch (of meaningful length) with $20 on top of his winnings.

Endoftime, have you calculated your winrate at 3/6 online? 3/6 online is a tough game to beat, he!! if you even break even at 3/6 online I'm sure you could crush 5/10 live, although like you said you don't currently have the br for it.

[GiveMeaBJ]

not playing the limits he is(if he was playing 5/10+ i would agree with you), $20 per hour should about double his win-rate (total $ per hour). Doubling your win-rate is huge. Honestly it will hard for him to have any break-even stretch (of meaningful length) with $20 on top of his winnings.

Endoftime, have you calculated your winrate at 3/6 online? 3/6 online is a tough game to beat, he!! if you even break even at 3/6 online I'm sure you could crush 5/10 live, although like you said you don't currently have the br for it.

Yes, but my argument is while you increase your winrate you have to also consider how it may potentially make your game a little worse. Thats all I am trying to say.

[OmgUrMom]

Yes, but my argument is while you increase your winrate you have to also consider how it may potentially make your game a little worse. Thats all I am trying to say.

Your argument is certainly valid, but if he approaches it like a job and already has the skill he needs it will just be a $20 extra on top. Even if he is feeling tired ect. all he has to do is play on auto-pilot and expect to break-even during this poor level of play. (he still is making that $20 per hour) and he won't have any problems.

If your going to try to play poker professionally at the low stake level this is really the only way to do it. Doing it without the $20 per hour on top and you will literally want to kill yourself. So if he is set on playing professionally with his current BR this is the best option.

GivemeaBJ, im not knocking you, you have some good points and it would probably be better for his game in the long run to only play when he feels like it, so that may be the better option if he one day wants to crush the 10/20+ games!

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

OMG i havent been playing online long enough to have any sort of meaningful win rate online. Just started playing on full tilt around a month ago and am up a few thousand overall. Been playing live since i was 16 though. And poker in general since i was around 12 so have a pretty good background in it.

Would you be referring to win rate in regards to amount made per hour? or session win rate( average amount won/lost per session).

[GiveMeaBJ]

Your argument is certainly valid, but if he approaches it like a job and already has the skill he needs it will just be a $20 extra on top. Even if he is feeling tired ect. all he has to do is play on auto-pilot and expect to break-even during this poor level of play. (he still is making that $20 per hour) and he won't have any problems.

If your going to try to play poker professionally at the low stake level this is really the only way to do it. Doing it without the $20 per hour on top and you will literally want to kill yourself. So if he is set on playing professionally with his current BR this is the best option.

GivemeaBJ, im not knocking you, you have some good points and it would probably be better for his game in the long run to only play when he feels like it, so that may be the better option if he one day wants to crush the 10/20+ games!

Didn't read where he said he wanted to do it professionally at these stakes. If that is the case then he should jump at the offer because it is the only way to make this work. If you are just doing this to win some extra money on the side (like me) and have some fun (like me) then this is not what you want to be doing.

[GiveMeaBJ]

Oh, and I didn't take anything you said as a knock on me. I love the friendly argument. Makes me see both sides of the spectrum and use my head. This is why I should have worked hard in school and been in law school.

[GiveMeaBJ]

OMG i havent been playing online long enough to have any sort of meaningful win rate online. Just started playing on full tilt around a month ago and am up a few thousand overall. Been playing live since i was 16 though. And poker in general since i was around 12 so have a pretty good background in it.

Would you be referring to win rate in regards to amount made per hour? or session win rate( average amount won/lost per session).

UTEOT my last take on the subject. You seem like one of the good players I know who has the rare added discipline to succeed long term. If you are fine with playing these stakes and can go in there and play good every night then you have to do it.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

OMG is regards to playing professionally i dont even have close to the bankroll and i still have a lot to learn. I believe your always learning i this game. My main thing with this post was i play 20 hours a week live already and will continue to do so, so i wouldnt mind getting paid on top of it.

If i had to estimate my win rate live it would be in the range of 4-6 BB a hour.

[French Tickler]

First step to finding out this is a SCAM is the @gmail email address.

You would think a REAL casino would have a REAL website and inhouse email. Instead of using a FREE PUBLIC address.

Respond to it, I guarantee they will ask you to either

A. Send Money to either hold the job, pay for a credit report/background check
B. Ask you to click a link, where it will send you to a phishing website, or ask yu to fill out an "online application" which you will have to enter your SS#, etc, and all personal details
C. Send you to an affiliate website to sign up for a Background Check, or Credit Check.

[OmgUrMom]

OMG i havent been playing online long enough to have any sort of meaningful win rate online. Just started playing on full tilt around a month ago and am up a few thousand overall. Been playing live since i was 16 though. And poker in general since i was around 12 so have a pretty good background in it.

Would you be referring to win rate in regards to amount made per hour? or session win rate( average amount won/lost per session).

big blinds won per 100 hands is the general conversion for win rate. So if you made $18 per 100 hands your winrate would be 3bb/100. (playing 3/6)

If you have any profit playing 3/6 online after a 100,000 hands (need a big sample size to be sure) you are one hell of a player my man. A 4bb/100 win-rate would be phenomenal. (what an online pro is striving 4 at this stake)

[OmgUrMom]

OMG is regards to playing professionally i dont even have close to the bankroll and i still have a lot to learn. I believe your always learning i this game. My main thing with this post was i play 20 hours a week live already and will continue to do so, so i wouldnt mind getting paid on top of it.

If i had to estimate my win rate live it would be in the range of 4-6 BB a hour.

oh ok, are you currently going to school or unemployed? I would assume it would be very difficult to have a regular job along with playing grave shift hours. Even if you aren't doing it professionally, if you don't mind playing the graveyard shifts (and if they are flexible with what hours you work, a big if here) I would still go for it.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

Didn't read where he said he wanted to do it professionally at these stakes. If that is the case then he should jump at the offer because it is the only way to make this work. If you are just doing this to win some extra money on the side (like me) and have some fun (like me) then this is not what you want to be doing.

BJ thanks again for all your input on this. I do this for a little bit more than to have fun it has been a lucrative side income for me over the past 6 months. But i will say i wouldnt be doing this to play professionally at low limits so i get your point that its probably not for the right reasons given all the points you made in regards to playing when you dont really want to play and not being able to leave when you want to leave.

With all that being said i wouldnt even be able to consider this offer for about 6 more months. When the time comes i will reconsider the idea if i can continually increase my BR as i have been doing.

[OmgUrMom]

French could be right, although many casinos do employ shills (paid players) and if you ask around you can probably find a position.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

oh ok, are you currently going to school or unemployed? I would assume it would be very difficult to have a regular job along with playing grave shift hours. Even if you aren't doing it professionally, if you don't mind playing the graveyard shifts (and if they are flexible with what hours you work, a big if here) I would still go for it.

OMG in my current predicament it wouldnt be a good gig those hours but this is why i also said im not 21 yet so its not even a issue at the moment. In the future it would be something im willing to consider.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

ill be back in about a hour

[mrmarket]

Winrate can be expressed as $/hour but it usually BB/100 hands (at least online). It takes a few hundred hours to see if you're actually profitable live but even then there is still uncertainty because variance can skew results. What you need to calculate if you're profitable is standard deviation, winrate and desired confidence interval. Ask Thremp he knows more than I do about it.

Anyway as for the prop job my thoughts: You are forced to play. You do not get to table select. You have to deal with drunk degenerates and irritable old codgers. You cannot switch tables while playing these imbeciles and cannot say anything because you're under obligation as a prop player to have a certain attitude. You have to play the graveyard shift which can screw up your schedule/routine if you're not used to it. This can in turn mess with your family/life if you aren't prepared. The novelty of playing poker for a living wears off fast and it can end up like any other job except for the fact that you can lose money. Not to mention the mental wear and inevitable tilt from long hours.

Essentially it boils down to the fact that you are playing suboptimal poker but at $20 an hour (which is rakeback really as someone stated earlier) but all you need to do is breakeven which is harder than it sounds especially at the low limit games where the rake/tips will absolutely rape you into being unprofitable. I would expect that you can achieve a positive winrate at the NL games if you got to play them enough but this is not at your discretion and up to the employer.

Not having much information to go on I would say the $20 an hour is what you can expect on average. Taking work conditions into account any menial office job would offer a better quality of life. Some people are suited for poker though so it's really up to you.

[OmgUrMom]

MrMarket, I agree with most of your post. His hourly would depend in a large part if he gets stuck in the low limit fixed limit games (where break-even or slightly + is an accomplishment) or if he gets to play the $1/$3 and $2/$5 no limit games where he should be able to average $20 (maybe more) or so an hour if he is an accomplished player.

Also depends what the buy-in is for the no limit games, hopefully $300+ in 1/3 (200 wouldn't be terrible though) and $500+ for the 2/5. The more big blinds you can buy in for the bigger edge you will have against bad players, also rake has less of an effect since it is almost always capped. (the big pots only have the max rake of $5-6, not the usual 10% or whatever)

[eidolon]

Whats up Until?
Is this the card room Capital Casino? I've played there a couple of times. I knew a guy that did this for them. He would just stand around getting payed and then play if there were enough ppl to start a game. pretty chill, just horrible hours...plus you can't win every time you play. So on the down days, it was very depressing he said.