1. #71
    SBR_John
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    Curious - I changed the title due to this thing mushrooming. I hope you don't mind.

    With the recent scams by sportsbook.com and cascade this scam is not getting the attention it desereves. I'm going to stick it to the top for a while.

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  2. #72
    increasedodds
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    SBR, why are these guys not an F? Why is sportsbook not an F?

    I used to feel comfortable putting some money at your D books. Not anymore.

    Enough of these shitheads. They are both Fs and should be ranked as such.

    It is one thing to slow pay, make mistakes, lose money, etc.

    Once you outright steal you will almost always do it again.

    These should absolutely be F books. And yes, thatwould get their attention. Downgrading from D to D- is meaningless.

    They should be Fs with a big note on the front page not to play there.

    Sean

  3. #73
    SBR_John
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    They are both D- and we will review that rating.

    You really should never be comfortable putting money in a D book. They are D books because they will pull these stunts.

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  4. #74
    curious
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    edit
    Last edited by curious; 12-03-07 at 02:55 AM.

  5. #75
    curious
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    edit
    Last edited by curious; 12-03-07 at 02:55 AM.

  6. #76
    SBR_John
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    Did the handicapper get robbed too? I think we would like to talk to him or have we?

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  7. #77
    increasedodds
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    John - the problem is a lot of the D books for years were OK. THey would pay almost always, maybe take a few weeks, maybe a whine a bit, but they would pay 99%+ of the time.

    We are seeing more of them ok with pure thefts at this point. I think any pure theft where there is no doubt in SBR's mind should automatically become and F.

  8. #78
    curious
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    edit
    Last edited by curious; 12-03-07 at 02:55 AM.

  9. #79
    Doug
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    I know of this Sebastian person. I don't think he can be expected to win at this rate. I think he got HOT.

    I see no kind of record-keeping on his site...sebastiansports

  10. #80
    JBC77
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    Curious-good luck with these guys man. Hopefully the attention this gets will help put some pressure on them.

    The manner in which SBG and Sportsbook.com conduct business absolutely makes me sick.

    I wouldn't even call what they do business. It's like an organized crime racket.

  11. #81
    curious
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I know of this Sebastian person. I don't think he can be expected to win at this rate. I think he got HOT.

    I see no kind of record-keeping on his site...sebastiansports
    What does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

    If you want to bash Sebastian, then start your own thread. You don't know anything about Sebastian. All you know is you don't like his web site.

  12. #82
    curious
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I know of this Sebastian person. I don't think he can be expected to win at this rate. I think he got HOT.

    I see no kind of record-keeping on his site...sebastiansports
    You know nothing about Sebastian. When you wrote to me your big complaint is that you don't like his website. You know nothing about his track record.

  13. #83
    Doug
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    I've listened to him on the radio, talked to him on radio.I've met him in person at Rookies Sportsbar.

    He used to put his picks out free, then went tout. He doesn't even use lines, he says stuff like "under the total".

    There is no record keeping.

    He is just a tout, but probably one of the better ones, esp. in football.

    He steered you into a bad book for profit. Beware of touts that don't keep records.

  14. #84
    curious
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I've listened to him on the radio, talked to him on radio.I've met him in person at Rookies Sportsbar.

    He used to put his picks out free, then went tout. He doesn't even use lines, he says stuff like "under the total".

    There is no record keeping.

    He is just a tout, but probably one of the better ones, esp. in football.

    He steered you into a bad book for profit. Beware of touts that don't keep records.
    Well, I get his paid picks every day, he always gives very detailed instructions on what lines he wants you to get and what to do if you can't get them (either bet less or buy the points). Perhaps in his free picks he doesn't give lines, I don't know.

    I told you how you could validate your accusations. Get his picks for a month, play them for small wagers every day and see for yourself. You wrote me back saying you were a professional and you didn't like his web site so you would not do that. I don't know what else to tell you except I turned $2000 into $34,000 following his picks from the All Star break till the 4th week of football when my account was frozen.

  15. #85
    Doug
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    It's a great run for certain, but I question his ability to maintain it.

    Would anyone else have more long-term records ( of their own) for Sebastian ?

    I know he's been around about 5 years. I'm not a fan of touts, most are losers.

    Directing you to a SHIT book should show you something about tout ethics.

    You are doing the right thing by getting RX involved, since they advertise there. Your case sounds like absolute theft, I hope you get paid.

  16. #86
    curious
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    edit
    Last edited by curious; 12-03-07 at 02:56 AM.

  17. #87
    Doug
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    Royal has had problems going back many years. I used to play there, and have been slow-paid from them before.

    They also have done some good things with bailing people out of failed books.

    A search here would bring up many Royal complaints.

  18. #88
    increasedodds
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    Sebastion may or may not be a good handicapper. I promise he is not a 70% handicapper. Likely somewhere btwn 46 and 54% long term.

    He's not a very honest businessman though. ANyone in this business for 5 years knows Royal had multiple problems over the years and the SBG has been a nightmare.

    Anyone charging $6000 for picks should know enough to send clients to Cris or Olympic or Pinny or WSEX. The reason he chose Royal is they paid him more. I guarantee he knew of the other books and knew which ones were safer.

    I do hope you get paid.

    -Sean

  19. #89
    Scooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by increasedodds View Post
    SBR, why are these guys not an F? Why is sportsbook not an F?

    I used to feel comfortable putting some money at your D books. Not anymore.

    Enough of these shitheads. They are both Fs and should be ranked as such.

    It is one thing to slow pay, make mistakes, lose money, etc.

    Once you outright steal you will almost always do it again.

    These should absolutely be F books. And yes, thatwould get their attention. Downgrading from D to D- is meaningless.

    They should be Fs with a big note on the front page not to play there.

    Sean
    Sean's post is right on.

    Bill and John - downgrading from D to D- is definitely meaningless.

    Sean - "They should be Fs with a big note on the front page not to play there."

  20. #90
    20Four7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigboydan View Post
    It shows that you can multiple transactions via Moneybookers.



    They should have changed it after you called them out on it 20four7. This is yet another reason this books rating is a "D-"
    You can have multiple $1,000 @ $25 per thousand per week at one per day according to CS.

  21. #91
    louis
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    SBR and Sportsbook at D- now, but they will most likely drop soon

    I think SBR reserves the F rating for books that stiff everyone. Sportsbook.com will still pay players betting $100 at a time on straight wagers that are not advantage plays. SBG would probably pay a $400 balance to someone, so they are just stiffing some of their players. However, there is a danger they will start stiffing everyone because I don't see how a sportsbook that stiffs even 1% of their customers can stay in business.

  22. #92
    curious
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    edit
    Last edited by curious; 12-03-07 at 02:56 AM.

  23. #93
    rotty508
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    Sebastian has said many times during the MLB season this was his best year ever, and i wouldnt expect him to do the same next year. As far as recommending us to Betroyal as Curious said we did nto have any problems until SBG bought them out. I received 4 or 5 payouts without any problem other then it taking about 7-10 days to receive it. Also Sebastian also recommended Heritage sports which i also opened an account at and they were fine until they started to adjust the lines against his picks and limit action on his big plays. So it just seems that books only like the customers that dump mad $$$ into their pockets and they will just screw the ones that win. I wish i had just stayed with a local guy who after Sebs MLB season probably would have cut me off as well but atleast i would have gotten my winnings.

  24. #94
    Bill Dozer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    Sean's post is right on.

    Bill and John - downgrading from D to D- is definitely meaningless.

    Sean - "They should be Fs with a big note on the front page not to play there."

    There wasn't a downgrade for SBG. SBG already has a rating indicative of a book that keeps winnings. An ESB & WorldWager as F books kept deposits. We are talking about the difference between death row and jail in a lot of cases. Neither should babysit your kids or your cash.

    In regards to Royal, They were C- before they were bought by SBG and D+ after. D+ down to D when this issue was first reported and now have SBG's D-.

  25. #95
    milwaukee mike
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    curious, a couple quick questions (yes, i'm nosy):
    1) you claim to be new to sports gambling (1st year) yet you almost certainly have a bunch of accounts (would be a great coincidence to have only a betroyal and sbg account). yet you claim you never scalped lines or did anything strange.
    you also claim your bets were small potatoes yet $4000 wagers are not small by anyone's measures. why did you have multiple accounts if not to shop around, get bonuses, scalp, etc?
    2) you seem to be very knowledgeable for someone that would call in bets and have to ask if you were laying a dime or betting to win a dime. yet you claim that sebastian has been winning 70% and seem to think that can continue? i don't think i have ever met a sharp that thinks they can win 70% for any great length of time on spread bets/totals.
    3) you talk about sebastian like he's god's gift to this world. yet if the only bets you made are the ones you have discussed on this thread, you made $2100 in postups, withdrew $4000, paid $6000 for the picks and had $30k stolen by sbg.
    so sebastian has cost you a lot of time and effort, as well as $4100 based on his sports picks AND sportsbook picks.
    i would hardly be defending a guy that cost me money, regardless of whether or not his picks were winners.
    are you completely honest that your only link to sebastian was to get his picks? what possessed you to start betting and paying $6000 for picks?

    these questions in no way change the fact that you should be paid. and i hope you take no offense by them.

  26. #96
    copper
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    Curious is very accurate in his statements. I too have listened to Sebastian on the air for a long time. In June, I decided to start up at Bet Royal for $1000. My account got frozen at $8000+ and I made a $1200 withdraw in their. The main point is that Bet Royal took the bets and we should be paid. We all followed the same picks and because we got hot, we are accused of being a syndicate or whatever excuse they want to use. The main point is that SBG is stealing our money.
    Now, as for Sebastian, anyone can say whatever they want about him. It's a run, whatever. The fact is that I have been playing baseball, football, everything. At about 5 games per days for 3 months. You can see how my account changed. Sebastian charges by the day, week, month or year. I chose to pay wekely because it is managable that way for a small time player like myself. Anyone, let's get off the Sebastian beating and concentrate on the real issue: SBG stealing people's money!

  27. #97
    HedgeHog
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    This is similar to the SB fiasco. Theft is theft, and D books are starting to make a habit of it. After all, the worst you can go is D- in the SBR ratings as long as you pay somebody, so why not take a shot at winners if you're a crap book. SBR needs to stay ahead of the curve and "F" these places now. Yes, I know this rating is reserved for deposit only books, but the times they are a changin'.

  28. #98
    norest
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    Why would a winning handicapper refer his clients to any sports book? I"m sure I'm missing something here, but don't most sports books pay affiliate earnings based on referred player losses?

    I know everyone hits losing streaks, but I just can't understand why it would be worth it to Sebastion to refer his clients to a shady book when they are going to be winning with his picks, at least over the long term.

    Not just sebastion, alot of tout sites have ads for sportsbooks on their sites, just never made sense to me.

    Hope you guys get your money back, GL

  29. #99
    copper
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    His account manager who is was with for years left another book for Bet Royal. She promised continued service and so he directed new clients to her. He admitted he didn't do the research he should have. He was going on her word.

  30. #100
    mshanedub420
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    bodoglife has lines that are not very good at times, but from what ive seen they dont **** you around with payouts less than 5000. 30,000 is big but you would like to think there are bigger fish. Im shocked that these people have not been chased down by someone, if I lost 30,000 there would be a chance I spent 10,000 more just to have a bounty hunter find them and give them a beat down. Do these sites display who the exact owners are? Who exactly is pocketing this money?? Whoever it is, i hope they know they have something like this coming.....http://www.wptfan.com/article.php?st...543&mode=print

  31. #101
    mshanedub420
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    The founder of BetonSports.com, Gary Stephen Kaplan, 47, was charged with 20 felony violations of federal laws, including the Wire Act, Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, interstate transportation of gambling paraphernalia, interference with the administration of Internal Revenue Service laws and tax evasion, the Justice Department said. .....I mean is there a price on your life.....aparently its 30,000 of curious's money

  32. #102
    curious
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    edit
    Last edited by curious; 12-03-07 at 02:56 AM.

  33. #103
    curious
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    edit
    Last edited by curious; 12-03-07 at 02:57 AM.

  34. #104
    mshanedub420
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    All Bets are FINAL..........wish that would go both ways..., they juice you 10%(OR MORE)like bodoglife( -115 jags, -135 colts), u win, and then they still try to **** you around....makes me sick, greedy greedy mother****ers
    Last edited by mshanedub420; 10-22-07 at 07:32 PM.

  35. #105
    curious
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    edit
    Last edited by curious; 12-03-07 at 02:57 AM.

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