My bottom line on Rich Coast

[SBR_John]

I was right and they were wrong .

I have talked to Roberto and put the issue to bed. Basically, should we sit on news while he arranges a bailout?? It's a good question that after 20 minutes on the phone I'm still not sure we agree.

But in 2006 we will try to work with TOW. Although if another rookie gets in trouble and we find out about it, it will be reported. Hopefully it won't hurt some kind of behind the scenes deal. For sure it prevents others from being unnecessarily hurt.

Let's hope no more of these books get in trouble.

Good luck to Roberto and Jake in 2006.

[JC]

My bottom line, reposted from TOW:

I'm sorry the guy had a heart attack.

I'm glad for the players that CRIS took over.

But the whole SBR thing doesn't explain why they stopped processing withdrawals. The fact that they only had 40% of the customer's deposits does. They were insolvent and susceptible to a run.

What does CRIS get out of this?

New loyal customers who will always remember them for saving them, or for the most part a collection of bonus hunters (not that there is anything wrong with that) who will move as soon as a new opportunity presents itself?

It's really interesting if you think about it. You have a new book that gives away the store and draws business away from fiscally sound operations, then one of those same fiscally sound operations bails them out. In a sense, they end up subsidizing their competition. Players feel no pain, so many feel they can take the same risk again, especially the ones who feel they have one to give then they will not do it again, but until then... bonus on.

[jay88]

I guess the entire situation prooved that TOW doesn't rest until the best is done for their players.

[TOW]

eheheheheh John...lets just say that we were right and you guys were wrong.

Other than that its always a pleasure to talk to you. We had a chance to go over the details of the situation (a bit different from what you guys reported) and why I believe transitions should be assisted.

Its not about keeping a lid on things. Its about ensuring several things: first and foremost players funds safety. Then help preserve the purchased party good will (most precious intangible asset a sports book has) and so on.

I also have had the opportunity to disclose the several layers of protection the Rookie Projects guarantees and the reasons for which I believe in this project.

Its not about "trying" to work together. Its about DOING IT if and when the situation requires.

We at TOW are proud of having facilitated this transfer of assets (and employees).

Best of luck for 2006 !

[Chuck Sims]

TOW, is lying, keeping players in the dark, allowing players to send money to a book that has gone up part of being a "Watchdog" site? You should be ashamed and embarrassed.

Next time tell the truth. you won't feel so dirty.

[TOW]

Chuck,

I consider you an intelligent and entertaining poster most of the times.

I'm available to receive your call any time should you wish to go thru all the details of this sale of assets. Mind, CRIS does not impose any rollover and took over part of the equipment and employees of RCS as well.

You may reach me at 866-5740-TOW

As John recognizes my name is positively associated to the largest rescue operations in the gaming industry. From Gamblers Avenue (over 400 players saved) to a tangible contribution in the Blue Marlin case (over 20 players) through the 48 gotten paid from Betpanam and many other minor cases.

Trust me if I say that I'm not impressed when I read that someone is calling me a liar based on emotions and not facts. If after we talk you will still believe I lied be my guest and blast the net. Until then I'd appreciate a different approach.

I'm awaiting your call. Thanks.

[Bill Dozer]

It's no mystery what happened. The initial report tells the story and no one needs an inside scoop to know what happened next.

BTB offices were closed and the site was getting its "new IP address". RCS employees were at BTB. BTB calls SBR asking us to update players to let them know they will get an email regarding the roll in a few hours. RPM has no idea this is happening but calls Roberto. That must have been when the layers of protection kicked in.

Great NYs info. Glad everyone can enjoy the night.

[bigboydan]

i'm just glad somebody stepped up the plate finaly and, covered the players money over all this bullshit. unfortunately, i feel there will be alot more of these types of situations comming up right around superbowl time

i hope "EVERYONE" learned a lesson after this whole mess. but, i'm sure most people haven't and, it's very sad if they didn't.

[SBR_John]

At SBR you have to have thick skin, it just goes with the territory.

Its a very strange dynamic but there are some checks and balances in the industry. We gave the players the knowledge that RCS was in trouble and criticized TOW for sending players to this book.

TOW worked feverishly to find a bailout and succeeded.
Yes, it was new twist for a watchdog to blame another for their key sponsor failing so we broke some rather bizarre new ground there. That's where the thick skin comes in handy.

[bigboydan]

TOW worked feverishly to find a bailout and succeeded.

now that he sure the fvck did. i'm just glad that nobody got stiffed over this one at all.

[RPM]

HERE IS PROOF THAT JOHN IS LYING.

he says that they reported all this info to save any other players from depositing there and possibly getting sucked into a bad book.

the problem with that lie is that anyone who was paying attention to the situation KNOWS that due to the need to work out the exact accounting details, richcoast was NOT taking deposits or withdrawals.

so obviously the poor attempt john is making at an excuse has not merit whatsoever.

[Sam Odom]

Roberto or RPM, be honest! What % of player's deposits did RCS have in CA$H ? Anything less than 100% then RCS was a shit book.

Now answer my question.

[Sam Odom]

SO, what's the answer?

[sharp_E]

now that he sure the fvck did. i'm just glad that nobody got stiffed over this one at all.

No! He got lucky somebody bailed out his ass out this time.

[acw]

John,

Happy New Year to start with!

You are wasting way too much time trying to make yourself look better than other forums. There is absolutely no need for that! I know that of all watch dog sites books get 7x more traffic from your site than from the 2nd most. 7x more! I know that most forums will stand in line to say that you must be having some software that manipulates these stats, but if that is not the case, why do you still pay any attention to (the owners of) those other watch dog sites?

[RPM]

Roberto or RPM, be honest! What % of player's deposits did RCS have in CA$H ? Anything less than 100% then RCS was a shit book.

Now answer my question.

sam,

i can't answer your question. i don't have info other than what was in their merchant accounts this week. but imo, if they had 40% of total liabilities sitting in merchant accounts, then i'm pretty sure they would have had the rest of the money somewhere.

[SBR_John]

Thanks ACW. I know you are absolutely right. I was never good at ignoring BS but I'm going to try.

Have a Happy New Year yourself!!!

[Brooks]

isnt this kind of simple?

did cris pay any money to take over richcoast sports?

if they did, then we have a sale of assets.

if cris simply took over the accounts to avoid a minor disaster in the offshore world and gain some goodwill then we have a bailout.

[raiders72001]

Sale- I don't know why everyone is crying about a business being sold. It happens many times daily.

[raiders72001]

BetCRIS.com has purchase Rich Coast Sports. Your account number and balance is secured with no roll over requirement. Now you can enjoy 24 hour world class service and have access to our sports book, poker room, casino, horses (with rebate), cash games, office pools, and much more. If you have any reluctance or doubt due to past experience, please be assured, BetCRIS has been in business since 1985 and our reputation in the gaming industry is impeccable. Please call 866-670-3192, for more details.

Sale

[SBR_John]

So Raiders would you say this is accurate or not?????

Quote:
bail·out - A rescue from financial difficulties:

Its not a trick question. I know this difintion right from the dictionary hurts the spinners attempt to pretend RCS was fine.

[JC]

It was a "takeunder."

CRIS assumed all of the liabilities, hired the staff. The old management walked away with a nice Xmas bonus at best. In exchange for assuming the player liabilities they own the place. Call it a sale, call it a bailout, it doesn't matter.

Who's going to pick up the pieces next time?

Why all the secrecy? Why were deposits halted? The place was so small I could have squared up the accounting by hand in one evening. Why were so many different stories coming from the clerks?

The only negotiation involved was how much of the 40% of customer deposits left in their merchant accounts was RCS going to give to CRIS and how much were they going to bonus out to their staff, a very nice gesture on the part of CRIS.

For those of you who want to call this a sale, ask yourself if you think CRIS actually wrote a check to them on top of taking over the liabilities? That should answer your question.

Roberto and RPM did a great job selling this thing to CRIS. It may be the sale of the year. I really don't see what they get out of it, probably 5% overlapping accounts, 80% bonus hunters, and 15% other. The bonus hunters won't show much loyalty to CRIS when a better bonus comes along, the 5% were already there. So in the end they probably paid a high price for 15% of RCS's retail player base and some good will in the industry.

The best defense once it was announced RCS was being bailed out, if it was incorrect, would have been for RCS to start processing payouts faster than ever. Unfortunately, I don't think they could have sustained a run on deposits without a fresh cash injection. And to keep an open and honest line of communication going, not vague answers and intermittent phone service.

Companies need to have operating accounts in the company name. They shouldn't have to rely on the good graces of the owner to pay the customers? (The Royal/Tej method, which is apparently widespread)

This whole way of doing business where owners sweep the company bank accounts before the house can call that money their own has got to end.

[Avatar]

JC,

When you say the Royal/Tej method is widspread, could you put an estimate on what percentage of books operate in that manner?

[raiders72001]

I don't think they could have sustained a run on deposits without a fresh cash injection.

not that it's correct, nor am I saying that this is the case with RCS, but what percentage could withstand a run w/o fresh cash.

[TOW]

15% or less.

[SBR_John]

spin spin spin spin. Its all good. You guys got the money right?

At the end of all this... I'm sure glad SBR does not promote thos kind of books. I know you guys are spinning for your lives in this. Can't be any fun.

[JC]

normal year, 15%

this year 10%

[raiders72001]

So RCS was in the same boat as most books. RCS was paying all players and obligations and was working on a sale. SBR yelled fire and delayed the sale. Cris has now bought RCS and everything is fine but SBR is still complaining.

[JC]

So RCS was in the same boat as most books. RCS was paying all players and obligations and was working on a sale. SBR yelled fire and delayed the sale. Cris has now bought RCS and everything is fine but SBR is still complaining.

Just because they were in the same boat didn't make it right.

SBR is trying to get people to look at the big picture and where we go from here.

I don't believe SBR made the BTB phone call story up, and therefore they did the right thing. It's not like SBR had RCS rated hire then D+ before all of these shenanigans.

[raiders72001]

I'm not quite so sure that SBR was looking at the big picture in this case. SBR had no idea of the financial state of RCS at the time. They just got word that a TOW book was having trouble and ran with it. They should have contacted a few more sources than just TB. A call to RCS is mandatory before publishing this type of information. TB ultimately had nothing to do with this sale but that's what SBR went with.

[natrass]

I think its great that it has all worked out, thats important as everyone agrees.

The snag I would have is this. What if CRIS said "no chance. After the season we're having" and all the other books had said likewise ... noone wanted to do the bailout/sale?

That it never came to this is perhaps fortunate. To continue the fire analogy, its like a fire broke out in a building but someone was around who managed to put it out. That someone was able to save the day was fortunate but, like with the tedious fire analogy, the real conversation would be "how did a ****ing fire break out?" not how lucky we were.. Thats the first thing Id want to know.

[raiders72001]

How did SBR even know that there was a fire? They said that RCS was broke and didn't even look into their Neteller acct which had 40 or 50k. RCS just wanted out and SBR did no homework except passing on information from one guy that called them. I'll bet Dozer was posting the article on SBR while still on the phone with TB.

[SBR_John]

raiders you are a paid advertiser. When we said they were done they were done. After we reported they were done there WERE NO MORE PAYOUTS. You don't get any more accurate than that.

[raiders72001]

John- When Dozer came out with his first report on RCS how many people did SBR contact to determine that RCS failed?

[SBR_John]

No idea... I'm in charge of posting this week

The report was 1,000% accurate. We said they were done and they were.