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i think either the pilot wanted to show he could fly even in "bad" conditions and/or has done it before. i think he wanted to impress Kobe and look good. was he pressured to do so? only few know. either way, the pilot is responsible to resist the pressure and say we are not flying today.
Kobe could have also refused to fly in those conditions. I don't care what kind of pilot is in the cockpit if he can't see where he/she is going I'm not going up with them.Originally Posted by pologq
when the conditions are so bad just call a car service, some vips think the world will end if they dont either get there or are late imo.
California law is quite clear. Every victim on that chopper was totally incapable of controlling the fate of that chopper except the pilot. That makes the pilot and his company responsible for the crash. The company has already bellied up, so according to California Civil Law, victims can sue the next person or group that could have had something to do with the crash. That is Kobe's estate. It is totally impossible to determine just how much pressure any passenger was able to put on the pilot, so talking about it is total stupidity. What makes this case so open and shut is the fact that the pilot had been cited for flying under these same conditions previously.
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^ This. BigDaddy nailed it.
some of you on here have no idea what you are talking about. the skies were clear in ORANGE COUNTY when the copter took off. copter only met the heavy low clouds and fog when up in the LA area. the pilot has been cited for making this mistake before. when the investigation completes you will see ZERO mechanical issue. it will be 99% PILOT ERROR and i am leaving 1% for the control towers if he was given incorrect route flying instructions.
as far as suing goes. YOU ABSOLUTELY SUE THE COPTER COMPANY NO MATTER RICH YOU ALREADY ARE. A DEATH OR 9 DEATHS THAT DID NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN SHOULD BE PURSUED LEGALLY AT ALL TIMES.
ALL TIMES. AT ALL TIMES.
what is wrong with some of you people? how low is the collective intellect around here so low? sometimes i feel like i'm talking to a bunch of uneducated clowns.
learn something about life. Unfukkingreal
it was clear skies in OC. learn the facts.
it was clear skies in OC. learn the facts.
exactly.
^^so why was the police helicopters told not to fly??
it will all boil down to what comes out of the investigation imo as to what the law suit will amount to a settlement or not.only time will tell.either way a very sad accident.
LAPD copters bro. LAPD. they were up in that area.
when Kobe's copter left OC, it was sunny skies. they met the fog and low thick clouds in LA, not OC
Los Angeles Police Department spokesman Josh Rubenstein said the department’s Air Support Division grounded its helicopters Sunday morning because of foggy conditions and didn’t fly until the afternoon.
“The weather situation did not meet our minimum standards for flying,” Rubenstein said. The fog “was enough that we were not flying.”
LAPD’s flight minimums are 2 miles of visibility and an 800-foot cloud ceiling, he said. The department typically flies two helicopters when conditions allow: one in the San Fernando Valley and one in the L.A. Basin.
The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department made a similar assessment about the fog and had no helicopters in the air Sunday morning “basically because of the weather,” L.A. County Sheriff Alex Villanueva said.
Kurt Deetz, a former pilot for Island Express Helicopters who used to fly Bryant in the chopper, said weather conditions were poor in Van Nuys on Sunday morning — “not good at all.”
The crash was more likely caused by bad weather than engine or mechanical issues, he said.
it will be pilot error due to not being instrument rated to fly in those conditions, plus the helicopter manufacturer will be sued for not installing or equipping a system called TAWS (terrain awareness and warning system)
please guys, let the educated people discuss this. not amateurs.
An aviation accident never has one single cause. Instead, investigators will determine the chain of events that lead to disaster
correct, but often times one event or reason is determined as the final cause.
case in point: JFK jr was not instrument rated to fly, he had a cast on his foot (causes issue when pedaling the rudders), and became spatially disoriented during the flight. but the end result was PILOT ERROR. that was the cause of the crash.
so all of the events leading up to it are only building blocks to what the final analysis is.
in terms of lawsuits, the two ways i think it will go are: pilot error, equipment (should have had TAWS onboard)
it will be extremely hard to prove that Kobe pushed the pilot to continue because there are no black boxes on helicopters that record conversations in the cockpit
besides, the copters are so loud that the pilots sit alone in the cockpit with earmuffs on and the passengers sit way inside in a limo type of set up.
go google this particular copter and you will see it looked like a limo inside.
i bet kobe and the other passengers did not move the whole flight. i bet they say buckled in the whole time while the pilot tried to figure the shitttt out
It looks a bit ugly, but it's probably more to do with insurance, the estate executor and legal settlements than greed here.
Sounds about white.
yes, it's called CMA (cover my assss) from what are sure to be lawsuits coming from all directions and at the end of the day you know lawyers will find a way to weave a case against Kobe's estate. they'll say that because they were headed to the mamba academy for a game that he was going to coach his daughter in, that he forced the pilot to keep going and this put the copter and its passengers in grave danger, etc etc. his estate has the cash. the lawyers, if they can't get money out of the helicopter owner and/or the manufacturer, will go after the next best thing which is the Kobe estate.
this will get very ugly and will draw out for many many years.
altobelli's two surviving children are going to want to get paid. i think the son is a late teen so not young and he will lawyer up if properly counseled by family and friends.
Most people are always in a rush, not just vips you dumbass.
no, she doesn't want this to happen to someone else
she has all the money in the world
I'm sure it will all be settled out of court
Most people are stupid and careless so nothing will change but here's an idea. In places with so many microclimates like California and Oregon, make it a requirement as part of the pre-flight that you call ahead to the destination area for visibility conditions before you takeoff. Would've saved their lives in this situation by absolutely forcing the pilot not to takeoff.
We all know he shouldn't have anyway but that last little piece of oversight I just proposed would have grounded him. Helicopters need more regulations anyway, in my opinion.
I had one land on an adjacent fairway on a golf course I was on one time. Somebody got out, ran to the porta potty that was on the hole. Got back in the helo and they took off like nothing happened. It's just remarkable the shit these helicopter pilots pull off or in Kobe's case tried to pull off. It's like the wild west out here with them. No fear of consequences.
mexicans always sue. that damn mexican vanesa bryant.
Have you been to Southern California? Have you ever heard the song.... "it never rains in Southern California"? Most people think there's never a weather event in SoCal, so they think they can fly anytime, anywhere. But if you drive up the coast (which I have thousands of times), you'll know that certain areas have high haze, smog and mist/dew. Plant's don't get water from rain in SoCal, most of it comes from the dew/fog. The pilot left OC, where the weather is always great, day and night but flew through the valley, Calabasas, right next to Woodland Hills (where I lived) and Malibu, where it is ALWAYS foggy. Sometimes there's fog and smog and sun that shines through and blinds you. I've been on some roads where the mix of sun, smog and fog was so bad that you couldn't see where you were going. You just pull over on the side of the road and wait for it to burn off, which can take over an hour.
For the life of me, I never understood why helicopters flew in the valley, when they could easily fly over the Pacific Ocean? Maybe some type of air space regulations? I remember many years ago we had huge fires in the valley that they said was caused by a helicopter blowing wind and stirring up a bush fire.
bingo
Does she really need the money? Come on now..
Kobe was worth alot.. Next of kin.
agreed.
Nobody truly grieving wants to be bothered with this right now.
How? Why? If the weather was beautiful in Orange County, why would Kobe or any of the other passengers complain? It wasn't until they got to the valley that the weather turned. The passengers are at the mercy of the PILOT who they expect to know what to do in worsening conditions.
I personally do not fly in bad weather, especially rain and fog. I check the weather route from takeoff to landing and if it's bad, I simply tell the airlines that I don't fly in the rain. They don't give me any flack and always reschedule.
The 3 major reasons for airline crashes are...
Pilot Error - This accounts for half of all the crashes. This is the hardest to gauge if you don't know the history of the pilot
Weather - This usually creates a situation for the pilot to make a mistake, like in this case. I can at least eliminate this factor.
Mechanical - What is the safety record and maintenance program? It's rarely a catastrophic failure but several small problems.
Kobe had NOTHING to do with the crash. He was unfortunately a doomed passenger like the rest. This crash was on the pilot and the weather.
Macker you call up a major airline like Southwest or whatever and you tell them that you want to reschedule your flight due to bad weather on the route, and they let you do it free of charge? i have to call BULL-SHIZZZ on that one, if you say the airlines don't charge you a change fee.
BTW, commercial jets and commercial pilots are designed and trained to handle all types of weather take offs and landings.
flying in clouds is nothing and nearly unavoidable on any flight of material distance.
LOLOL
Homie - first rule of airline flying.... YOU DON'T CALL THE AIRLINES. You go the airport and tell them at the desk. All I say is... "I've had several incidents flying in bad weather (which I have), I cannot fly in the rain". They don't even look outside to see if it's raining. They usually ask me, when would I like to go out. My mom's cousin was killed in a plane crash due to rainy weather. Call me paranoid but I just don't do it.
Of course, commercial airlines tell you they can fly in all types of weather. What the hell does that have to do with me?
The weather is a major cause of airline crashes. Go research the HUNDREDS of airplane crashes, including major airlines due to weather. Rain, fog, ice, hail, wind shear, lightning, etc. I had to do a study on airline safety/risk when I was in college. You can reduce your risk by ~40% by eliminating the weather.
The key to rescheduling is to go to the airport. Heck, you can show up at the ticket counter after the plane has left and they will reroute you at no charge. But think about it. If they never give me shit for mentioning the weather, doesn't that tell you that they know the weather is a huge factor?
hahaha Macker i might have learned something from you today. i am going to try this the next time i fly out in what might be crappy weather on the flight.
a few years ago the wife and i attended a wedding in SLC. we left the kids at home with grandma and grandpa. i had a rule about the wife and i never flying alone together. we would have to take separate flights if the kids were not with us. well that trip was only a few hours each way so i chanced it and we flew together.
on the way out from SLC, it was snowing. i had never taken off or landed in snow, at least not that i recalled. so i just stared at the teams de-icing the wings and hoped we'd get in the air before the wings iced over again.
while watching them i was internet searching the safety of taking off in snowy conditions.
When did I mention flying through clouds???
You may be to young to remember Valujet, which is now Airtrans but I used to fly Valujet a lot in the mid 90's as I commuted from LA to Atlanta and Florida a lot. But, they clearly had issues with old planes and poor maintenance. In like a year they had 4 incidents occur back to back to back to back (3 out of 4 weather related). Meanwhile, I get on a flight and my seat rest fell apart and they just moved me to another seat. That was the last time I flew on Valujet. 2 years later they had the horrific crash in the Everglades the day before Mother's day killing everyone on board. It took days to recover the bodies in the swamp.
That investigation stemmed from a June 8, 1995, fire that destroyed a ValuJet DC-9 on a runway at Atlanta. One flight attendant was burned and minor injuries were reported as the 57 passengers and five crew were evacuated.
In January, a ValuJet DC-9 got stuck in the mud at Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport. The 101 passengers were bused to a terminal.
Also in January, another ValuJet DC-9 with 30 people aboard slid into a snowbank after landing at Dulles International Airport outside Washington, closing the airport for nearly three hours. No one was hurt.
A ValuJet DC-9 also skidded off an icy runway at Dulles in January 1994, closing the airport for almost two hours.
The Valujet company lasted just 4 years, ultimately killing people. I had friends that had huge amounts of stock in that company and lost it all when the plane crashed.
Oh, btw - Bahamasair VERY RARELY fly in the rain. They catch a lot of shit for it too because passengers want to get to the Bahamas and are used to planes flying in the rain. Bahamasair has never crashed.
Macker i will be 45 this year. i remember plane crashes going all the way back to that PSA 727 crashing on approach to San Diego in like 1978 when i was three years old. i remember my parents talking about it.
that valujet crash in the everglades had the former SD charger RB Rodney Culver on it.
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My parents never flew on the same flight either.
I think the last time I flew in horrible snow was almost 2 decades ago in Chicago. I couldn't help it because it was going to be snowing for weeks. I normally do not make travel plans up north in the winter. I did the same thing, kept looking at the de-icing crews and praying and hoping we would get off the ground. We go skiing at Breck once a year but it's usually very mild flying in and out of Denver but I always check ahead to be sure.
I tell my cousins up north all the time to not die in the winter unless they want to wait until the summer to have the funeral. Haha
you and i are a lot alike Macker, we worry a lot about things that have a very low chance of happening.
if your chance of dying in a plane crash is 1 in 11,000,000 is widely known, and you can lower your odds by 40% by avoiding certain weather patterns, then you now have a 1 in ~15,400,0000 or so chance
still, it is one in many millions either way.
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