[Optional]

12 step programs are not cults

the word god is typically used to describe a power greater than yourself

there are no dues or fees and no governing body

I'm just talking about GA.

Not that I think the people running the groups have bad intentions, just misguided about what all but the most hopeless cases need.

Gambling is not an addiction like alcohol or narcotics can be. Trying to convince anyone who turns up that they have a lifelong problem that they have no chance to control by themselves feeds into the problem imho. Like a crutch.

I suspect more people walk away and keep gambling and never try to stop due to be told there is no point in trying than they actually help really stop. It's relying on your god to save you or nothing according to GA. And I don't think that works for the majority seeking help.

Anyway, it was still useful to me to experience it, and I think Moyal should go along with his buddy and see for himself.

[U2.5]

I usually ignore him but every now and again I get really damn annoyed seeing him insult guys I like in one his worthless post so feel the need to mention what a worthless pos nobody wants around he is, lol. I wasn’t joking about he should end it all, World be a better place if he wasn’t part of it!!!

best thing everyone can do to combat a person like that is just pretend like he didn't say anything and carry on. He is desperate for those burials. It gives him a purpose

[KVB]

he is irrelevant to me. I won't even address him anymore after this conversation. I figured he had a grudge or something, but unfortunately it is much worse than that. He is just a depressed lonely dude searching for a purpose using hatred as his vessel.

Exactly. I just skip his posts, have done so all month. But even then, it's one thread after another where he's getting buried or put in his place.

It's crazy.

[2daBank]

I'm just talking about GA.

Not that I think the people running the groups have bad intentions, just misguided about what all but the most hopeless cases need.

Gambling is not an addiction like alcohol or narcotics can be. Trying to convince anyone who turns up that they have a lifelong problem that they have no chance to control by themselves feeds into the problem imho. Like a crutch.

I suspect more people walk away and keep gambling and never try to stop due to be told there is no point in trying than they actually help really stop. It's relying on your god to save you or nothing according to GA. And I don't think that works for the majority seeking help.

Anyway, it was still useful to me to experience it, and I think Moyal should go along with his buddy and see for himself.

I always found the premise you can’t control yourself when it comes to alcohol and drugs equally pathetic and comical. Give me a fukkin break w that shit, it def a stupid message and while I guess it helps some I totally agree that statement does more harm than good.. I always laugh when they act as if someone who gets carried away can’t ever learn moderation.

[KVB]

...Gambling is not an addiction like alcohol or narcotics can be. Trying to convince anyone who turns up that they have a lifelong problem that they have no chance to control by themselves feeds into the problem imho...

This is a terrible post, on every aspect.

Science shows the addiction viewpoint to be outright wrong.

And the rest is not what happens in twelve step program. Undergoing the program is controlling something "by themselves" even. Every choice is one made by themselves.

Just wow.

[2daBank]

best thing everyone can do to combat a person like that is just pretend like he didn't say anything and carry on. He is desperate for those burials. It gives him a purpose

I’m sure you right. Prob only way he can get anyone to talk to him. I’ll try that some more.

[gauchojake]

I would suggest that you also look into serotonin boosting foods and supplements.

[2daBank]

This is a terrible post.

The part like it not like drugs and alcohol? I agree it is exactly the same as drugs and booze, it releases endorphins in same way. I agree w him that the whole aa, na, ga, premiss is fukkin nonsense tho. Telling ppl the powerless is a fukk joke and a huge lie. Just a garbage excuse.

[KVB]

If an addict doesn't want to buy into a 12 step program and its tenets, it will never work for him or her.

If an addict does buy into the tenets, and undergoes the 12 steps which are a lifelong commitment, it is amazing and reliable the results seen.

It's a choice.

It's terrible to see posters who don't buy into the tenets, that won't undergo the program, try to discredit the incredible amount of evidence and results that have been shows across all addictions, including gambling.

[The Kraken]

When you look at addiction in terms of gambling vs alcohol vs opiates etc.... they seem very different

When you look at addiction as addiction and understand its about brain behaviour and the associated high, you see they’re all the same at a basic level

If the person addicted to gambling didn’t have a way to gamble, they’d likely move on the the next easiest fix which for many is alcohol. Because at a biochemistry level its just about those neurotransmitters

Whats my favorite drug to get high on? What do you have on you

[KVB]

The part like it not like drugs and alcohol? I agree it is exactly the same as drugs and booze, it releases endorphins in same way. I agree w him that the whole aa, na, ga, premiss is fukkin nonsense tho. Telling ppl the powerless is a fukk joke and a huge lie. Just a garbage excuse.

The powerless aspect you are referring to is part of a 12 step lifelong program that has helped more addicts than we can possibly imagine.

Can't deny the ongoing evidence and can't start calling any step garbage.

[2daBank]

The powerless aspect you are referring to is part of a 12 step lifelong program that has helped more addicts than we can possibly imagine.

Can't deny the ongoing evidence and can't start calling any step garbage.

It has helped ppl, doesn’t make it true. Ppl believe lies all the time.

[KVB]

It has helped ppl, doesn’t make it true. Ppl believe lies all the time.

Everyone is different, and handle it differently, of course.

That said, when you get the same kind of results with addicts just knuckling down and not seeking outside support, then we can question the truth.

Until then, the evidence dictates the truth and gives us the single most successful reality worldwide, no matter the culture or differences among people.

Think about that.

[2daBank]

When you get the same kind of results with addicts just knuckling down and not seeking outside support, then we can question the truth.

Until then, the evidence dictates the truth and gives us the single most successful reality worldwide, no matter the culture or differences among people.

Think about that.

I know plenty of ppl that chilled on such things without it. Free to believe whatever you like but when I’m told I’m powerless over making a decision it comical to me.

[KVB]

I know plenty of ppl that chilled on such things without it. Free to believe whatever you like but when I’m told I’m powerless over making a decision it comical to me.

That's you. You can handle it, and many can. And many of those people may or may not have been true addicts.

But some guys are digging crack rocks out of their dog's paw and thanking God they found one.

For a certain population of people, the 12 step program is unbeatable, time tested, and a worldwide success.

[Shute]

Well , Haven't posted in here in a while but Im having some trouble going thru the day right now .
Situation is ****** up , heavy in debt , work in a job which gives me negative emotions about myself and my situation , looking non-stop for ways to escape wheter its food , cigs , coffee , and when I get my hand on money its just one way traffic from there .
I have a bud who keeps telling me to come to GA with him , he's been there for a while and he actually enggaged to it , my own issue is I would feel like Im lying to myself If I ahead this way because I can't see myself outside gambling , It is in my nature , even though I know things needs to be changed , been a mess for over a decade now , had my ups and down , Hit the jackpot a few times just to lose it all , I guess many had the same route but man I'm having tough time just living within myself day in day out , basically I don't do that which tears me apart .
I feel kinda stupid posting in here because at the end of the day Im the one who will need eventually to help himself but the fact that u got no one to reach to and no one really understand what ur going thru might be the roughest part.
You kinda try to act everything is cool even though ur broken inside , wheter its emotionally or mentally I dont know .
You are smilling to everyone and making jokes at times out of disparity I guess , you would do everything just not let the pain you hold within yourself to soak in .
Its pretty messed up I know , just felt like opening up a lil , thats what loneliness do to you , cheers .

Question?
Do you have a job?

That responsibility is huge
Having to get up and sober to go to work will help

Are you responsible for other lives?
Dogs, cats children partner?

This too helps with responsibility and an adversion to gambling

Lastly do you have religion?
Gambling is an intense experience in brain chemistry.

[2daBank]

Didn’t say it wasn’t successful or it didn’t help a lot of ppl. , just that the statement ppl are powerless is inaccurate. The fact something is difficult for some doesn’t mean they powerless over whatever the addiction may be. Surely you don’t believe the “higher power” is what gives them the ability to stop? Meaning they in fact were not powerless since ultimately it their decision to stop not any higher powers.

[KVB]

Didn’t say it wasn’t successful or it didn’t help a lot of ppl. , just that the statement ppl are powerless is inaccurate. The fact something is difficult for some doesn’t mean they powerless over whatever the addiction may be. Surely you don’t believe the “higher power” is what gives them the ability to stop? Meaning they in fact were not powerless since ultimately it their decision to stop not any higher powers.

I think I added this in an edit, so you might not have seen it...

...And the rest is not what happens in twelve step program. Undergoing the program is controlling something "by themselves" even. Every choice is one made by themselves...

That's just it, it's the decision to give it over to a higher power that becomes a pillar of recovery.

The addict is in complete power to make that decision, or not. It really isn't relevant whether or not a higher power gives an ability, it's the heartfelt decision to give it over, that's a commitment that helps addicts, and causes no harm.

We are on a pretty similar page here, Banker.

[The Kraken]

Criticism of being “powerless” in a 12-step is not without merit, but it’s also not unique

[Chi_archie]

Moyal,

what was the diagnosis that one time you went to hospital and made an sbr video?

[KVB]

Holy shit, tremendous find Archie.

[MoYaL]

Question?
Do you have a job?

That responsibility is huge
Having to get up and sober to go to work will help

Are you responsible for other lives?
Dogs, cats children partner?

This too helps with responsibility and an adversion to gambling

Lastly do you have religion?
Gambling is an intense experience in brain chemistry.

I do have a job , actually 2 ( started a part time for now since I got too much debts ) .
And no I dont think the job itself help , ofc its helps to get a routine but right now it just adds pressure to me when Im working ( not planning to quit anytime soon just saying how it works with me )

and I do not have any reposibility on other lives , I wish to have a dog that I think it would help with something to look for but It isnt realistic .

[MoYaL]

Moyal,

what was the diagnosis that one time you went to hospital and made an sbr video?

I have a chronic disease in my stomach that I pretty much gave up on , trying to survive each day but it aint life , just survival at this point atleast .

[jjgold]

Claim bankruptcy

[MoYaL]

anyway I don't really expect people to come with the answers for me , it just aint gonna happen , felt like a lil bit to share I guess thats alll ...
this miserable day gonna end really soon than we gonna have to deal with tommorow I guess .
that's how we roll right now .

[The Kraken]

This thread

Its like fukking déjà vu

Recognizes a problem, knows we wont have answers, the dog, the job

[KVB]

This thread

Its like fukking déjà vu

Recognizes a problem, knows we wont have answers, the dog, the job

I think we need a coming of age addiction sub forum.

[MoYaL]

This thread

Its like fukking déjà vu

Recognizes a problem, knows we wont have answers, the dog, the job

Settle down bro , its not all about problem and soultions , is there a problem with sharing , take a lil bit off your chest ?
I don't know you really , Dont know almost all of you really , But Im damn sure people in here had their own struggles in life , reached certain points when they couldn't take it anymore , I bet whats happening to me its not out of the blue and there are plenty of stories like me , but as an individual Im the one who has to carry the load I've brought to myself ( even though it kinda collapsing right now )

[The Kraken]

That would not be a dull sub-forum

[The Kraken]

Settle down bro , its not all about problem and soultions , is there a problem with sharing , take a lil bit off your chest ?
I don't know you really , Dont know almost all of you really , But Im damn sure people in here had their own struggles in life , reached certain points when they couldn't take it anymore , I bet whats happening to me its not out of the blue and there are plenty of stories like me , but as an individual Im the one who has to carry the load I've brought to myself ( even though it kinda collapsing right now )

Struggles take years off our lives. Had a few myself, shared plenty here just as you are, and I certainly am not judging you or making light of your situation... Wish you a speedy journey through this rough patch

[KVB]

Hang in there Moya, find a support system around you, and don't betray it.

Good Luck.

[gauchojake]

I think we need a coming of age addiction sub forum.

I was just thinking about that

we can have 12 step meetings on skype

pass around the virtual basket only to have some scumbag steal it

people will get resentments and start their own meetings

it will be hilarious

[KVB]

[The Kraken]

I was just thinking about that

we can have 12 step meetings on skype

pass around the virtual basket only to have some scumbag steal it

people will get resentments and start their own meetings

it will be hilarious

Banker can run a competitive tough-love 1 step program and then we can bet on which posters we think will be successful in which program, and if someone fails in one they have to try the other

We’ll publish the results in the New England Journal of Psychology or some shit like that

We’d probably end up with a Pulitzer

[gauchojake]

Willpower Hour with Banker