View Poll Results: murder or self defense?

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  • murder!

    21 70.00%
  • self defense

    9 30.00%
  1. #1
    Auto Donk
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    Poll: did the jury on which Donk sat in a murder case get it right?

    facts: hood argument over some hood rats ensues, the defendant, a 22 yr old black male, has a girlfriend at this apartment complex where the argument is at, and his hood rat girl friend is at the center of the melee. He tells the opposing hood rats to "go get a n___a I can fight."

    One of the hood rats, who never should have stuck her nose into the other hood rats' business, says, "I'll bring a n___a for you to fight."

    Several days pass, when suddenly the defendant (who lives in the unit across a street/main drag that runs right through the middle of the hood apt complex), sees the nosy hood rat sitting in the court yard of the building that the defendant's girlfriend lives at, on the phone, saying "he just got here, get over here quick!" into her phone.

    now, the defendant, who knows that this nosy hood rat is the step daughter of a bad ass gangbanger (one of the "59 Bloods"), and who's heard that said Blood had already come looking for him at his girl friend's apartment, decides to haul ass and go get "back up", meaning a .38 revolver..... he leaves, gets the gun, and returns.

    He leaves the gun in his car, then seeks out the Blood, who is 31 with "OG" status in the complex, who many of the neighbors both respect and fear. OG just happens to be leaving his unit to go shake down his step daughter's baby mama for five bucks for some pampers for his step grandchild along with his old lady. An argument ensues, with the defendant telling the OG to come out into the street and fight him (he could have just started fighting right there and then, but he didn't, because he wanted to get his gun out of the car.

    the OG says let's do it, but doesn't fallow him out immediately, but rather does so after about 20 seconds pass (the defense lawyer claims OG returned to his unit to get a gun himself). OG returns to the scene and comes into the street and heads toward the defendant, with his old lady trying to hold him back. Young G, the defendant, sees OG rapidly approaching as was tying his shoes for the fight, but rather than fight, he sees the OG reaching under his shirt for something, so he raises up and unloads four shots at OG.

    One shot, unknown to all there at the immediate time, strikes OG through the arm and enters his chest, going through both lungs and his heart. he takes two steps back, and falls into his womans arms as he's going to the ground. at this point, Young G approaches him, moves the woman out of the way, and puts the gun to OG's face and shoots him in the head, in a downward fashion, severing the spinal cord of OG. The Defendant runs away. The cops show up. The cops hear rumors that a weapon and drugs were removed from OG before they arrrive, but no hard evidence of that removal is introduced to the jury.

    the defense admits he shot and killed OG, but claims it was in self defense and so not a murder.

    texas definition of self defense is given to the jury, and provides generally that one may use deadly force if he reasonably believes it is necessary to fend off the use of deadly force against himself. Texas law also explicitly states that one need not retreat, and that one may fire his weapon until empty SO LONG as the shooter defending himself REASONABLY believes IN HIS MIND that the danger he is defending himself from still exists at the time he is shooting (a subjective, from his point of view standard).....

    Poll question: Is he guilty of murder or was it self defense?

  2. #2
    slambam
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    Guilty

  3. #3
    cincinnatikid513
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    innocent

  4. #4
    phinfan27615
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    Innocent if he hadnt finished him off, guilty bc of that
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  5. #5
    cincinnatikid513
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    self defense on first shot 2nd not necessary hes no threat culpable homicide ?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by phinfan27615 View Post
    Innocent if he hadnt finished him off, guilty bc of that
    perfect analysis, exactly what the jurors decided under my tutelage....

    judge gave him 28 yrs in tdcj after we handed down our verdict.... (defendant elected to have the judge assess the sentence rather than the jury.... mistake on his part, as we'd have given him 20 yrs -- the available range for murder in texas, a first degree felony, is 5-99 yrs). Generally, in Texas, you serve only 1/3 of your sentence, so we might have given him 25--we didn't deliberate on an actual sentence, but I'm pretty sure the jury would follow my lead.

    an interesting point that had entered my mind -- and that of one other asian juror, a fifty something aged man, was the OG was already on his way to dying from the first shot (undisputed medical evidence indicates the first shot that went into his chest was not survivable), was did it really matter that he more or less fired and "execution" style shot to the face of the OG, given he was already gonna die?


    as our jury instructions didn't address that, we convicted him....
    Last edited by Auto Donk; 03-10-18 at 12:20 PM.

  7. #7
    str
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    According to your write up, IMO self defense.

  8. #8
    big joe 1212
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    Guilty, the defendant approached OG, so any self defense claim is thrown out the window. Also, no proof OG had a gun or was reaching for it.

  9. #9
    slambam
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    Why'd he want to go to the street in the first place? Yea, to get his gun. No punches thrown and he shoots him 4 times as he's walking to him? Did anybody else corroborate that the dead guy was going to his belt? Sounds to me like he planned to kill him the entire time.

  10. #10
    Snowball
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    cancel
    Last edited by Snowball; 03-10-18 at 12:39 PM.

  11. #11
    Auto Donk
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    Quote Originally Posted by big joe 1212 View Post
    Guilty, the defendant approached OG, so any self defense claim is thrown out the window. Also, no proof OG had a gun or was reaching for it.
    i didn't want to make the write up any more wordy than it already was, but you're generally correct that if you "provoke" the confrontation, you can't use deadly force.... we didn't really have to get into it as jurors to deeply because of the emptying the gun aspect into a dying OG laying in the street.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by slambam View Post
    Why'd he want to go to the street in the first place? Yea, to get his gun. No punches thrown and he shoots him 4 times as he's walking to him? Did anybody else corroborate that the dead guy was going to his belt? Sounds to me like he planned to kill him the entire time.
    you got a tatted up OG with red colors coming at you, you probably should fear for your life....

    some dickhead like me coming at you, you can stop laughing at any time now, please....


    we'd be deliberating on monday but for that second shot to the head at point blank range.... barrell literally against his cheek....
    Last edited by Auto Donk; 03-10-18 at 12:43 PM.

  13. #13
    phinfan27615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto Donk View Post
    perfect analysis, exactly what the jurors decided under my tutelage....

    judge gave him 28 yrs in tdcj after we handed down our verdict.... (defendant elected to have the judge assess the sentence rather than the jury.... mistake on his part, as we'd have given him 20 yrs -- the available range for murder in texas, a first degree felony, is 5-99 yrs). Generally, in Texas, you serve only 1/3 of your sentence, so we might have given him 25--we didn't deliberate on an actual sentence, but I'm pretty sure the jury would follow my lead.

    an interesting point that had entered my mind -- and that of one other asian juror, a fifty something aged man, was the OG was already on his way to dying from the first shot (undisputed medical evidence indicates the first shot that went into his chest was not survivable), was did it really matter that he more or less fired and "execution" style shot to the face of the OG, given he was already gonna die?


    as our jury instructions didn't address that, we convicted him....
    I would think even though the final shot itself was irrelevent since the victim was already going to die it shows that the defendant's intent was to kill the guy rather than just that he was scared and afraid he was about to be shot so defending himself. If the guy was already mortally wounded it's tough to argue that the defendant still thought he was defending himself when he fired the final shot
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  14. #14
    biggie12
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    tommy how long didit take you to think of and type that nonsense out? o/u 1.25 hours.

  15. #15
    RudyRuetigger
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    so you want me to believe this guy is a lawyer but cannot get out of jury duty?

    ok bro

  16. #16
    Snowball
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    Two problems with his plea is obviously the second shot makes him a menace to society
    and the fact that he went to get his own gun before "fighting" suggests he meant to use it.
    Your reading of the TEXAS LAW makes it murder - as conditions for self-defense
    were clearly violated. I chose self-defense in the poll but switch to murder upon
    reading more closely.

  17. #17
    MinnesotaFats
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    Seems like the self defense argument got lost in the pre amble to the actual incident.

    More or less a pre meditated set up to execute the guy and take status from it.

  18. #18
    pimike
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    I’m sure the defendant had no license to carry concealed weapon in the first place.
    I don’t think you brought that point up and he wasn’t defending his home or anything this is a slam dunk murder case no excuse good job buddy!!!

    Is it funny how the hood and other shit hole criminals and Illegals are carrying firearms., that’s the problem!! It’s not guns it’s dumbasses don’t have any versus living with even carry them.


    Donk!!!
    way to nail him
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  19. #19
    BuckyOne
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    What about the hood rat that instigated the confrontation? Wasn't she guilty of something? Wouldn't have happened if she would not have been sucking away on her phone?

  20. #20
    Auto Donk
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    Quote Originally Posted by phinfan27615 View Post
    I would think even though the final shot itself was irrelevent since the victim was already going to die it shows that the defendant's intent was to kill the guy rather than just that he was scared and afraid he was about to be shot so defending himself. If the guy was already mortally wounded it's tough to argue that the defendant still thought he was defending himself when he fired the final shot
    exactly my reasoning and why are rhetorical que3stion about the "already dead" aspect didn't bother us in convicting him

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimike View Post
    I’m sure the defendant had no license to carry concealed weapon in the first place.
    I don’t think you brought that point up and he wasn’t defending his home or anything this is a slam dunk murder case no excuse good job buddy!!!

    Is it funny how the hood and other shit hole criminals and Illegals are carrying firearms., that’s the problem!! It’s not guns it’s dumbasses don’t have any versus living with even carry them.


    Donk!!!
    way to nail him
    texas will let u use an illegaLLY posse3ssed hand gun to defend yourself under trhe defense of "necessity".....

    think of it this way, you're carrying an illegal hand gun and get attacked by a knife weilding maniac... texas lets you shoot him and claim self defense/necessity despite the illegality of the handgun.....

    you'll still catch a weapons charge, but you're not denied self-defense because of the illegal nature of the gun

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RudyRuetigger View Post
    so you want me to believe this guy is a lawyer but cannot get out of jury duty?

    ok bro
    jcould have got out of it in ten seconds if I'd wanted to, dumbass....

    instead, I just kept quiet and did my civic duty....

    if the prosecutor had known I handle some criminal cases instead of only civil/family, I'm quite certain he'd have struck me from the panel.... as is, he left me on and the defense certainly wanted me on....

  23. #23
    VeggieDog
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    What a life those "people" live. Guns. Drugs. Fights. Murder. Trying to scrap a few bucks together for diapers for a bastard child.

  24. #24
    King Mayan
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    Wtf?

  25. #25
    snapperman2
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    Two questions: 1. Was the OG armed when he was shot? 2. Who else other than the defendant saw him reach under his shirt?

    It seems to me that the defendant intended to kill OG all along or he wouldn't have brought a gun to the fight. Even if the final shot only shortened OG's life by seconds, isn't that still murder? Otherwise, I guess you could just shoot terminally ill people any time you want, since they're dying anyway.

    This case just shows the need for gun control in the U.S. If the defendant had no gun, it would probably have ended up as a fist fight and nobody would be dead or in jail.

  26. #26
    Auto Donk
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapperman2 View Post
    Two questions: 1. Was the OG armed when he was shot? 2. Who else other than the defendant saw him reach under his shirt?

    It seems to me that the defendant intended to kill OG all along or he wouldn't have brought a gun to the fight. Even if the final shot only shortened OG's life by seconds, isn't that still murder? Otherwise, I guess you could just shoot terminally ill people any time you want, since they're dying anyway.

    This case just shows the need for gun control in the U.S. If the defendant had no gun, it would probably have ended up as a fist fight and nobody would be dead or in jail.
    1. no evidence of a gun was admitted other than a cop who "community polices" saying the rumor in the complex was that a gun had been removed from the OG immediately after he was shot (no gun was found on him by the cops), that the woman immediately ran back to their unit with "something in her hand", tesitifed by her and her daughter to be a phone, and the delay of OG in entering the street, which would have enabled to go back and get a gun (jurors other than me said that was total speculation, I said it was a "reasonable inference" to draw from the other evidence I noted above.

    2. only defendants "fat albert" friend 50 yrds away, there were no other witnesses to the shooting other than perhaps a young boy who wasn't produced by either side.

  27. #27
    slambam
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto Donk View Post
    you got a tatted up OG with red colors coming at you, you probably should fear for your life....

    some dickhead like me coming at you, you can stop laughing at any time now, please....


    we'd be deliberating on monday but for that second shot to the head at point blank range.... barrell literally against his cheek....
    Yea, but I wouldn't be asking the dude to meet me in the street either. These thugs don't give a shit.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggie12 View Post
    tommy how long didit take you to think of and type that nonsense out? o/u 1.25 hours.
    20 minutes, i learned typing in high school.... most usuble course I ever took at any level of my education, including law school

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by slambam View Post
    Yea, but I wouldn't be asking the dude to meet me in the street either. These thugs don't give a shit.
    very true... young g wanted to be a "man" and "bigshot".... things, like ron burgandy so accurately put it) "really escalated quickly, I mean that really got out of hand, fast".....

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    cancel
    no need to cancel that snowy, had some interesting insight and thoughts on the situation.....

  31. #31
    Sam Losco
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    i thought lawyers legally couldnt be on juries

  32. #32
    cincinnatikid513
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    how much do u charge per hour

  33. #33
    MickeyMan
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    Who gives a fukk about the case, tell us about how during deliberations you hammered one of the female jurors from behind as another one licked your asshole while all of the male jurors stood and watched jerking off and admiring you

  34. #34
    jjgold
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    animals who are worthless

  35. #35
    Harry N. Lloyd
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    And people wonder why there's racism?

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