[magaman]

Lmao

Kylie has been surrounded by better talent his entire career , kinda unfair comparison IMO

I like watching them both play, Kyrie is better though no question

Better handles, way better in the clutch
Better shooter

I'd maybe take Lillisrd over Wall but that's really close

You really don't understand the plus/minus stat I guess... you should read up

[IBetYou]

You really don't understand the plus/minus stat I guess... you should read up

What do you mean? If he's +4.6 that means his team is up 4.6 per game with him on the floor. If he has great teammates then that helps him get a high number...

[redlily]

Damian Lillard is overrated. Period
Any playoff wins. IDK

[magaman]

What do you mean? If he's +4.6 that means his team is up 4.6 per game with him on the floor. If he has great teammates then that helps him get a high number...

wrong. plus/minus stat is designed to isolate ONE PARTICULAR players impact on the game. That is why the stat exists.

[IBetYou]

wrong. plus/minus stat is designed to isolate ONE PARTICULAR players impact on the game. That is why the stat exists.

You're confused pal. It does isolate a player, but only in terms of the mins he's on the floor. How do suppose they'd isolate him otherwise for god's sake? Basketball is a team game, with 4 other players on side.

[magaman]

You're confused pal. It does isolate a player, but only in terms of the mins he's on the floor. How do suppose they'd isolate him otherwise for god's sake? Basketball is a team game, with 4 other players on side.

I give up - lol

[GzaTheGenius]

You really don't understand the plus/minus stat I guess... you should read up

Uhhh. Maybe you misunderstand basketball dick

If a team has say 3 good offensive options on the floor, shit let's say ones the best player to ever play basketball (arguably)

Obviously the other teams defense won't be focused so much on one person

Whereas a team with less viable scoring options, the defense obviously can focus more attention on the better player

Look I clearly stated I think Kyrie is a better player than Lilliard, because he clear as day is

Good players make other players better, partly by focusing defensive attention on them. Shit switch Lilliard and Kyries positions on draft day he would probably have a better +/- also

Good day sir

[magaman]

Plus/minus is a useful way to determine a player's value to his team, because it encompasses everything a player does on the basketball floor, even things the NBA doesn't keep official statistics on.
https://www.sportingcharts.com/dictionary/nba/basketball-plus-minus.aspx

[magaman]

hey genius... you still don't understand the stat. Sorry you are not a genius - not my problem

I tried to explain, but you are too hard headed. Again not my problem

good day

[IBetYou]

You're laughing by youself on that one buddy. I know what plus/ minus is, I;ve only been betting basketball games since the dinosaurs died out. It's not that complicated. You should explain what you think it means so we can have a good laugh

[magaman]

What you guys think underrated player

Slayer... he is not underrated - quite the opposite.

BTW I hear Slayer is doing one final tour? I need to get out to see them

[GzaTheGenius]

hey genius... you still don't understand the stat. Sorry you are not a genius - not my problem

I tried to explain, but you are too hard headed. Again not my problem

good day

+/- is what a players team does with said particular player on the floor over 100 offense/defensive possession compared to the average NBA player, No?

You still harp on this one thing because your argument holds no water bud, I even kinda agreed with you

[magaman]

Uhhh. Maybe you misunderstand basketball dick

That is how you agree with people? Okay...

[GzaTheGenius]

Uhhh. Maybe you misunderstand basketball dick

That is how you agree with people? Okay...

that Kyrie was the better player

I simply pointed out he has been surrounded by more talent his whole career

Even going back to college

Lilliard came from fukkin Weber State

Go google players from Weber that made the NBA I'll wait

[jrgum3]

Dame is a great player definitely deserves to be an all star. He may never win a ring in Portland but that's another story.

[magaman]

3Professional career

• 3.1Portland Trail Blazers (2012–present)
  
  • 3.1.12012–13 season: Rookie of the Year
  • 3.1.22013–14 season: First All-Star selection
  • 3.1.32014–15 season: Second All-Star selection
  • 3.1.42015–16 season
  • 3.1.52016–17 season
  • 3.1.62017–18 season

The OP stated he thought Lilliard was underrated... any NBA player that wins rookie of the year, followed by 1st team All Star, followed by 2nd team all star, followed by 3+ years of no all star is most definitely NOT underrated. His game has fallen off. Stats back that up as well as anybody who watches the games. Portland has been drafting PG's lately because of this, and he is in jeopardy of losing his (starting) job if he does not decide to work harder. Young man's game. He was electric his rookie year... not so much lately. Sure he has a game here or there where he can impress... because he has the talent to do so. But he does not grind out an entire season anymore.

[CWD]

all this lillard talk kinda would like to see what he could do on a real roster

[Conqueror]

Yes, he would easily be an all-star if he played in a bigger market but he still has to show the capability to consistently play well all-season.

[jjgold]

ball hog

cannot win with him

diamond dozen in nba

[ans61201]

Maga you clearly don’t understand +\-

This thread is like going to a bar and hearing a bunch of drunk idiots arguing sports that clearly don’t even understand what they’re watching

Except most of you bet sports. Jesus.

Lillard hit a game winning shot to win a series. Kyrie didn’t make the playoffs in the east one time before LeBron got there.

While we’re so focused on +\- go back and look at Kyrie +/- pre Lebron, one of the worst for an all star in the nba. Anyone with LeBron on their team for a multi year stretch, playing in the east is going to have a good +\-

[ans61201]

Yes, he would easily be an all-star if he played in a bigger market but he still has to show the capability to consistently play well all-season.

-Top 10 in scoring 3 straight seasons.
-Carrying a team without another all star to playoffs 3 straight times in much tougher west without a bench or another all star on team
- 1 of 4 players with 26-6-5 stat like in nba (harden, Lebron, curry)

-he’s not as good as curry but switch the two of them Golden State still wins finals this season and Portland still 1 and done. That’s the difference between them.

[CWD]

-Top 10 in scoring 3 straight seasons.
-Carrying a team without another all star to playoffs 3 straight times in much tougher west without a bench or another all star on team
- 1 of 4 players with 26-6-5 stat like in nba (harden, Lebron, curry)

-he’s not as good as curry but switch the two of them Golden State still wins finals this season and Portland still 1 and done. That’s the difference between them.

agree to extent but not sure if i would discount curry that much, i think he makes any team a TON better

[ans61201]

agree to extent but not sure if i would discount curry that much, i think he makes any team a TON better

I disagree. But no way to know. Only slight example is that the warriors are like 17-3 without him in their lineup.

[shadymcgrady]

Dame Lillard is a straight up stud, there's no debate

Guy came out of nowhere and has been crushing it ever since

He's somewhere in between curry and kyrie

Why isn't anyone bringing up kyries plus minus when he was winning less than 20 games as the go to in cle before lebron went back?

[CWD]

I disagree. But no way to know. Only slight example is that the warriors are like 17-3 without him in their lineup.

you calling curry derek jeter now

no way

[ans61201]

you calling curry derek jeter now

no way

Not even remotely. Historically speaking a Guard by himself on a team can do little to nothing. AI being one of the only
Exceptions in a very watered down conference.

People call cp3 point god and can’t even make a conference finals. Westbrook as an mvp got whooped in the first round and his style to take over a game without help translates better than Curry’s.

Curry no showed in his first two finals. Let a reserve player win the finals
MVP. His team does fine without him.

He’s a top 5-10 player in the nba, and completely changed how the nba plays stylistically speaking.

It’s not a knock on anyone to say they are not good enough to take an 8 seed and take them anywhere by themselves. Outside of Lebron, nobody is good enough to elevate average players and make playoff runs.

30 out of 30 gms would take Giannis right now over curry and he can’t take a no name team by himself out of first round in the east. It’s hard. This also speaks to how good of a team Golden State is, you could plug another good point guard in that does much of the same as curry (lillard is probably the closest thing to curry in the nba-Steve Kerr is quoted as saying so-when he preseason picked him for mvp last year)

Carrying a average to bad team alone in the nba is hard. Curry doesn’t make players around him better and absolutely physically impose his will enough to do that.

[shadymcgrady]

Plus minus is a misleading stat, in the case of a stacked team like dub nation there is no clear way to gage how much of a difference a player makes

It goes both ways, a player on a bad or mediocre team such as giannis or Lillard will have inflated stats

Stats can't tell you how the game is played all the time. You need an eyeball test and to have played the game yourself on some kind of competitive level to understand. Whether it be AAU, d1, d2 or varsity

It's just another perspective but one that gets overlooked here quite alot, most likely bc most posters here haven't experienced it

[CWD]

Not even remotely. Historically speaking a Guard by himself on a team can do little to nothing. AI being one of the only
Exceptions in a very watered down conference.

People call cp3 point god and can’t even make a conference finals. Westbrook as an mvp got whooped in the first round and his style to take over a game without help translates better than Curry’s.

Curry no showed in his first two finals. Let a reserve player win the finals
MVP. His team does fine without him.

He’s a top 5-10 player in the nba, and completely changed how the nba plays stylistically speaking.

It’s not a knock on anyone to say they are not good enough to take an 8 seed and take them anywhere by themselves. Outside of Lebron, nobody is good enough to elevate average players and make playoff runs.

30 out of 30 gms would take Giannis right now over curry and he can’t take a no name team by himself out of first round in the east. It’s hard. This also speaks to how good of a team Golden State is, you could plug another good point guard in that does much of the same as curry (lillard is probably the closest thing to curry in the nba-Steve Kerr is quoted as saying so-when he preseason picked him for mvp last year)

Carrying a average to bad team alone in the nba is hard. Curry doesn’t make players around him better and absolutely physically impose his will enough to do that.

valid points

curry did average 26 ppg in his first finals not sure if thats really no show

at first glance i get it tho

[ans61201]

valid points

curry did average 26 ppg in his first finals not sure if thats really no show

at first glance i get it tho

You’re right I should’ve said in comparison to how he performed in the regular season/his standards. He didn’t really take over at any point in that finals. More so just played a tired depleted team and overwhelmed that as a whole. And that was during his probably best regular season he’s had.

Guards value are just hard to judge. And even tougher when they’re on bad teams or really great teams.

[ans61201]

Plus minus is a misleading stat, in the case of a stacked team like dub nation there is no clear way to gage how much of a difference a player makes

It goes both ways, a player on a bad or mediocre team such as giannis or Lillard will have inflated stats

Stats can't tell you how the game is played all the time. You need an eyeball test and to have played the game yourself on some kind of competitive level to understand. Whether it be AAU, d1, d2 or varsity

It's just another perspective but one that gets overlooked here quite alot, most likely bc most posters here haven't experienced it

Plus minus gets incorrectly used quite a bit. As you can see on this thread from several people who don’t understand the stat. Good points

[Goat Milk]

Kyrie +4.6

Lilliard +1.1


https://www.sportingcharts.com/nba/s...atistics/2016/


Like I said - he is overrated. Not even the best guard on the Blazers. If you have wood for this slacker that is your problem.

Did you really just bring up a +/- rating to defend your point that Irving is better than Lillard? Now I agree with you 100% that Irving is better, but a +/- chart? I would venture to say that Zaza Pachulia is at the top of that chart. Why? He plays on a stacked team. I don't even need to look. I know he's there. Is Zaza a top big man in the league then?

Gonna have to do better than that. Your new here so you'll figure it out.

[Goat Milk]

Lillard is a good player but let's be real he played with Lamarcus Aldridge in L.A.'s prime, who is better than Blake Griffin in Griffin's prime. Was also surrounded by a good team. Had Wes Matthews and Batum both in there prime with a young CJ Mccollum coming off the bench. That's a better team than Chris Paul's ever had in his career (with the exception of this year).

Lillard is good, but he doesn't have an impact on both sides of the floor, and he's not a dominant 1A option on offense like an Iverson or a Wade or a Lebron who can carry a shitty team to a finals appearance.

[ans61201]

😂😂😂😂

[IBetYou]

This thread is like going to a bar and hearing a bunch of drunk idiots arguing sports that clearly don’t even understand what they’re watching

And yet you felt the urge to chime in anyway! They say genius enjoys company. I guess drunken idiots do too...

[jjgold]

Isiah Thomas same type of player

They make
Nobody better