[playersonly69]

Another thing, at that moment in the tournament, early on day 1 you CANNOT fold to any bet.

Near a huge pay bump maybe one can find a fold about 5 days later in the tournament

[jjgold]

Poker game of chance

Nobody knows next card

Love when you guys talk strategy

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Poker game of chance

Nobody knows next card

Love when you guys talk strategy

Another retard-comment from Capt Obvious.

[thetrinity]

This is one of those hands that's going to be discussed forever. By definition, Nuts vs 2nd-nuts is a cooler hand. Hard (or impossible) to get away from.Think about how the hand played out on Turn/River. And also consider the fact that both players are pros, not amateurs.

On the turn, this had potential to be a pretty modest pot-size. Selbst check-raises + gets called. At that point, warning bells have to be going off in Selbst's head. Baumann called a sizable chk/raise. What RANGE of hands does Baumann have?* IMHO, Baumann has to have Boat+. What Non-boats does she call with?

I think you had a little mistake at the top. The flop was a bet/call. The turn is where the check raise came in. We know Selbst is a wild player, so Baumann doesnt have to have a full house IMO at this point. Selbst pretty much has a house or nothing, but I think she has nothing enough that Baumann could call with less than she usually may against someone else.*

On River, consider Selbst bet-size. There's a 25% rule in tournament poker. Meaning, if u bet, size she either be max of 25% (stack), or u just go All-in. Rationale is that if u go All-in, at least u bring a lot of Fold Equity w/ that move. If you bet > 25% stack, you're going to feel pot-committed.Trinity mentions 9k as bet size. I agree, that was the proper bet size. You get called by smaller boats. Does 7x call?If Selbst had bet 9k and Baumann had come over top w/ 36k...I really think Selbst could have found a fold. She knows Baumann is an accomplished player (w/ a healthy rack). At that point she might think the only holding that does that is 77.

Yes, I said 9500, she probably could have went to like 11 or 11500 and been called by quite a bit on the river. I think her logic for the bet is that it would look bluffier with a bigger bet sizing. If she just shoves on the river, she risks not getting anything at all, even from lesser full houses. My argument more than calling after she basically commits herself without the nuts is that it didnt ever have to get to that point. The players with the most success turn it into a marathon not a sprint. Baumann is already out which shows just how meaningless doubling up that early really was. You want to keep playing small pots against worse players and waiting for big mistakes, which can easily happen.Selbst's speech-play at end was pretty telling, imho. When she walked thru the possible combinations, she pretty much knew she was dead.

Even A7(hearts) was a pretty feeble attempt at justifying the Call.

Agree 100%. She kind of knew her main event was over when Baumann stuck it in. If she did somehow fold, it would have been a very long way back, especially for her style of play. I saw something on Monday where Baumann said she doesnt think she would have even put it in with A7, confirming what I had said earlier in the thread.

Again, I'm NOT saying many could fold. Just saying that she could have.

changed a lil, good post though

[thetrinity]

Ya'll sound smart as hell! Selbst played the hand right. flop was three clubs which easily could be Baumann's range. After that, she could have a set or be bluffing. I'd also have put her on a A7. These are pro's with million dollar bank rolls so they're not afraid of busting like the majority playing with savings. It's easy to act like pro's since we see all the cards, but no player in their right mind is folding.Unless you're Phil Hellmuth..

I do think this is how the younger generation of great players think. A lot of them see it as a waste of time to play 3 days for 5k, or not really realistic to make it to the final table.

However, to the older guys, this is the super bowl. Some of the younger tournament specialists put a lot of importance on this event as well because of the weak field and long structure.

I think like the second group, that's why I don't like the Selbst hand as much, but I assume shes more like the just another event type crowd.

[stevenash]

What's the biggest FOLD u could ever make?

Aces preflop sitting on the bubble.

[dlowilly]

If Selbst were a good lesbian staying around Baumann's rack would have played a major role in that hand

[reigle9]

buddy made it to day 3, said he thinks he should have an above average stack

[ChuckyTheGoat]

TRIN, I was saying that the flop action would indicate that this was NOT going to be a massive pot. Based on how deep they were, this could have been a 1/4-stack pot. Not complete wipeout.

I see what u mean about Selbst aggro-reputation impacting the hand. Baumann knows this, and Selbst knows that Baumann knows...

With Selbst knowing this, she likely feels that she has Baumann trapped. If Baumann held 55, the Turn action likely goes like that. And then Baumann would call down one more bet on River.

[stevenash]

My 2 cents, Baumann played that hand to perfection.
Flop comes A 7 5 all clubs.
Selbst leads out with 700 with her set of Aces (she has to be wary of the three clubs)
Bauman isn't going anywhere with her set calls.
Question to you guys is why doesn't Schwartz call for 700 and at least see one more street, the Jc is not that weak for a flush draw with the Ace already on the board. (I know Antonio said about the King, but still, if I'm Schwartz I'd consider a call there, but I don't have any WPT titles or WSOP bracelets so I guess Schwartz knows what he does)

Baumann made the perfect bet after Selman checks, she bets 1.7 (not even 2/3 pot) Vanessa jams back with 5.8, Gaelle calls.

Right there and then Vanessa should know ( and I think she does ) her Aces full, no matter how remote the quad 7's are, is beat.
Then Vanessa bets 16.2, when Gaelle jams back doesn't all sorts of bells and whistles go off in Vanessa's head?
Bells and whistles should have gone off one street earlier. I'm not 1/10 th the player either one of the two are, but you have to make the hero fold.

Then after the show down she kept saying after the showdown "I want to fold" over and over again" well, why didn't you?
Another thing, Baumann was never in position that hand. Baumann outplayed her shoes off.

Now regarding the favoritism towards Selbst, yeah it's there, but I think it was Antonio who said after Baumann hit quads "buh bye Vanessa" sarcastically.

Regarding the coverage, I have no problem with it, and yes getting rid of the November nine is a good thing.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Nash, Baumann was on Button, so she was in position.

I thought about Schwartz's fold. I agree. You'd think that would be worth one call.

Draw to 3rd-nuts. If K(c) or Q(c) comes on Turn, he has 2nd-nut flush.

If u call w/ J8(offsuit) Pre-Flop, I think u should be calling once.

[Darkside Magick]

I think Schwartz was right to fold ..he had the jack..and like they said if he had the king then it would have been worth it to see the next street

[ZINISTER]

All she could think of was Donut Bumping with that other Chick after she showed her how big here Diock is. Fock that dead pan eyed Kunt! Of course ESPN loves their Jewish poker prodigy. What guy would Fock her? I would never fold the nut full house to a POSSIBLE Quad hand. 3 7's on board or 4 cards to a straight flush-YES. She is and always will be a Pure Kunt! Bet her pucie stinks! Peace

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Zin, showed the video to may dad. He says "That GUY has Aces Full."

[thechaoz]

She's so annoying

[LineShifterz]

looool what site do you guys plan on? ..... yum yum

[reigle9]

buddy made it to day 3, said he thinks he should have an above average stack

made the money, but sounds like he'll be out the first hand next day

[alling]

Karma. She usually whines when she loses. Almost as bad as Hellmuth. She didnt this time because she didnt lose against a man. If I played against Selbst I would wear a Trump hat to tilt her.

[ZINISTER]

I would try to Prop bet her my diock is bigger. Like your dad I can't tell a girl from a guy any longer.

[stevenash]

I would try to Prop bet her my diock is bigger. Like your dad I can't tell a girl from a guy any longer.

I don't know man, I hear Vanessa pees standing up.
She's got to be sporting about 8" of wood down there.

[ZINISTER]

Got me! lol

I don't know man, I hear Vanessa pees standing up.
She's got to be sporting about 8" of wood down there.

[dlowilly]

I don't know man, I hear Vanessa pees standing up.

[thetrinity]

Digging up an old one here but just ran across this hand again this morning on youtube. Still don't think he/she had to go broke! The c/r on the turn was what put vanessa in the position to lose it all.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Giant, where u at, bro?