1. #1
    TheMoneyShot
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    What Do You Do When You Had A 401k With A Company That Supposedly Went Bankrupt?

    Worked for a company for a year and a half right out of high school. Many years ago.

    Was talking to a buddy last week... and he told me the company went bankrupt a few years back. I said no sh#$. He also told me the Feds were involved somehow. Of course... I can't confirm this 100%. People sometimes exaggerate a story.

    I totally forgot I had a 401k with that company. Never moved it. It isn't worth much... but I'd like to know what happened to it? I called the main number to the company... and the phones aren't in service anymore.

    I'm looking at the last few statements of my 401k.... and there's no contact information. All it says... the company headquarters phone number.

    What are my options? Anyone been through something like this before?

  2. #2
    Blackballer
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMoneyShot View Post



    I totally forgot I had a 401k with that company. Never moved it. It isn't worth much... but I'd like to know what happened to it? I called the main number to the company... and the phones aren't in service anymore.
    How were you involved with that company? You worked for that company and forgot you had 401k with that company?? How is that possible? Sorry for asking but this sounds kind of crazy to me.

  3. #3
    Jayvegas420
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    Thanks Obama

  4. #4
    slambam
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    They went bankrupt a few years back, and you're still getting statements? I'm sure it's fine. If money was lost and the feds were involved, there's no way you wouldn't have received something about it, especially if everything happened a few years ago.

  5. #5
    MinnesotaFats
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    Your 401k would be administered by a 3rd party fiduciary, you should have received statements from the brokerage (Hartford, Cuba, Securian, etc), that's who you can contact directly if you don't have access to your company comptroller.

    The business may still be under bankruptcy jurisdiction thou, which could play a role in rolling your 401k into another defined plan.

  6. #6
    TheMoneyShot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackballer View Post

    How were you involved with that company? You worked for that company and forgot you had 401k with that company?? How is that possible? Sorry for asking but this sounds kind of crazy to me.
    I was an office manager for a section of the company. I basically did accounts receivables and payables. My department wasn't in charge of payroll or 401k. The company was huge. Basically 3 separate companies... but ran like 1. I was 18 at the time. I almost finished 2 years there... avg around 53 hrs. a week. Went to wrestling school at 21. Back surgery at 23. Went in business at 24 for about 12 years. I just forgot about the 401k. Like I said... it wasn't much at the time... and I just figured I'd get the $ when I retired later on in life.

    I never thought the company would go bankrupt.


    Quote Originally Posted by slambam View Post
    They went bankrupt a few years back, and you're still getting statements? I'm sure it's fine. If money was lost and the feds were involved, there's no way you wouldn't have received something about it, especially if everything happened a few years ago.
    Right after this buddy of mine ran into me.... I was going through old papers. I only have a statement from 2001. Of course... I moved awhile back. Never updated the mailing address. I just figured everything was ok.



    Well... I guess my buddy was right about the feds? Here's the link to the story. Corruption Witness's 5 Companies File Ch. 11

    Guess I won't be seeing the money anytime soon.

  7. #7
    chico2663
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    Well usually the companies portion usually would take 3 to 7 years to be fully vested. But the money you have invested would be fully funded. Most likely the companies end was bought out by a wilbur ross, donald trump or mitt romney. They usually buy the company out of bankruptcy for pennies on the dollar just to raid pensions and companies end of pensions.You can thank nixon for that but the dems sued so that at least your portion is saved. This first happened at the old A&P grocery stores

  8. #8
    chico2663
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    Wow I almost went to work for united rentals. If that is the company that rents to construction companies heavy duty equipment. Money i'msorry for you

  9. #9
    gauchojake
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    Check with the State for unclaimed property.

  10. #10
    Thor4140
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    Being that u have Trumps nuts in your mouth most of the time and he is famous for stiffing Americans for money using bankruptcy, u need to suck it up and take the lost like those people.

  11. #11
    TheMoneyShot
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    Quote Originally Posted by chico2663 View Post
    Wow I almost went to work for united rentals. If that is the company that rents to construction companies heavy duty equipment. Money i'msorry for you
    Yes, that's correct. I feel really bad for all the crane operators and riggers that worked for us. What happened to their 401k? I was the youngest at the time that worked in the company. A lot of those guys back in 1999 were 50+ years of age. Huge 401k's... and they talked about it all the time. They couldn't wait to retire.

    Frank was a tough guy to get along with. Met him once... but spoke to him several times a day on the phone. You dare not talk about anything other than "company related" issues with him. Not the type for small talk. Heard rumors that he used to wash his money in the washing machine intentionally for good luck.

    There was a lot of "trading" when I did accounts payable and accounts receivable inside his own companies. But, I was young at the time... I didn't find it quite alarming. I figured it was natural. Nothing really wrong with it.

    Apparently the Feds thought otherwise.

    This is like a time machine to me. Wow.

  12. #12
    VeggieDog
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    Capitalism sucks. Marxism is where it's at. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

  13. #13
    DrunkHorseplayer
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    I think the agency is called the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. Try contacting them.

  14. #14
    MoneyLineDawg
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeggieDog View Post
    Capitalism sucks. Marxism is where it's at. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
    There is no perfect system when the people in power don't have ethics...from communism to capitalism to anything

    The problem is scumbag people not the systems

  15. #15
    Poker_Beast
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    Should be insured as Drunk Horse mentioned. Companies cannot touch 401k funds typically.

  16. #16
    MaddyMax
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    allow me to copy and paste:

    If a Company You Work for Goes Bankrupt, What Happens to Your 401k

    It seems that every week brings fresh bankruptcy declarations. While workers at these firms may suffer layoffs and loss of income, fortunately federal law protects most, if not all, of their 401k savings.
    The Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) provides these protections by requiring the plan assets to be held in a trust account, apart from the employer's assets. This separation means employees are not allowed to access 401k savings without following the trust's rules, and employers may not use this money to fund business operations. This also keeps the money out of the hands of the employer's creditors.
    "Whatever is in the trust is not the property of the (bankruptcy) estate and not subject to liquidation," explained Judge Alexander Paksay, chief judge emeritus with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court's middle district in Florida.
    Funds at Risk
    If your employer declares bankruptcy, all of your contributions that were safely in the plan prior to the bankruptcy filing are protected. Likewise, all vested employer contributions are protected. In some cases, unvested employer contributions may become fully vested if your employer lays off a large number of employees within a year, generally at least 20 percent (known as a "partial plan termination").
    That said, there are two circumstances in which you may not receive all the money you thought was due you.
    The first is if your employer didn't deposit your contributions before declaring bankruptcy. Typically, this should only affect one paycheck's worth of contributions, since Department of Labor rules require that all employee contributions must be deposited in the trust as soon as possible, and at the extreme no later than 15 business days following the end of the month when the contributions were made.
    The second is when an employer match hasn't been deposited into the trust. Employer contributions (matching or profit-sharing) may be deposited less frequently than employee contributions -- quarterly, semi-annually or even annually. Employers are allowed to make matching contributions until their tax-filing deadline, which can be months into the next calendar year. If the employer hasn't made its contribution to the plan before bankruptcy is declared, the contribution may be lost.
    Bankruptcy Priorities
    The U.S. bankruptcy code allows businesses to either reorganize debts or shut down in an orderly fashion so creditors can be paid. The bankruptcy system establishes the priorities of creditors, said Wesley Avery, a bankruptcy attorney with Sulmeyer, Kupetz, Baumann & Rothman in Los Angeles.
    Unpaid workers' salaries have high priority in claims against a firm -- behind only the IRS, which wants any outstanding taxes, and the attorneys and accountants who help with the bankruptcy filing. Workers are ahead of any creditors, secured or unsecured, meaning the likelihood they will be paid is pretty high.
    "Congress viewed employees as having a special right to payment (because) their labor helped create assets from which other creditors will be able to realize value and because their wages are typically their sole source of income," Avery said.
    Surprisingly, 401k contributions deducted from an employee's paycheck but not deposited into the account are not priority claims. Employees must get in line with other creditors for the return of this money. David Wray, president of the Profit Sharing/401k Council of America, said his organization is urging Congress to recharacterize this money as unpaid salary, since it came out of workers' paychecks.
    Bankruptcy Types
    Bankruptcy filings freeze all the assets of a company while the business and its creditors sort out restitution. What happens to a 401k plan depends on the type of bankruptcy protection an employer seeks -- Chapter 11 or Chapter 7.
    Chapter 11 bankruptcy is a debt reorganization in which the business expects to continue operating. It is the most common type of bankruptcy filing by businesses. Enron filed for Chapter 11.
    Workers whose employer files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy likely will see their plan continue operating. Indeed, Enron's current employees can still contribute to the plan, and former employees can request distributions in order to cash out or roll the money to an IRA or a new employer's plan that accepts rollovers.
    In Chapter 11, the employer may amend the plan document and reduce future employer contributions, said Donald Black, president of MBM Advisors, Inc., an investment advisory and pension consulting firm based in Houston.
    A business that files Chapter 7 bankruptcy intends to close its doors. This is a rarer filing, Paskay said. In this case, the employer stops operating and no longer serves as plan fiduciary. The plan also stops operating and all assets need to be distributed to former employees. For this to happen the plan still needs to be administered by a trustee authorized to remove assets from the trust and distribute them to participants.
    Sometimes the employer may name a new trustee. But, if the company shutdown is quick and all the company officers vanish, the bankruptcy court will appoint a new plan trustee to oversee the plan's termination. Some employers file a formal termination with the IRS, while others simply close the plan.
    If the plan is expected to close and only the trustee is changed, employees may be locked out of the plan for a week or two while a new trustee is named to handle distribution of the assets. Participants could not make new contributions or take a withdrawal during that time.
    If the employer files for a plan termination (a formal process that is not required) it could take six months or more to get IRS approval. During this time employees may not make contributions to or withdrawals from the plan. When the termination is approved, all employees become fully vested, said Stephen Mueller, president of Hand Benefits & Trust of Houston, and money is distributed to plan participants.
    Even if the plan doesn't file a formal termination application, if the plan is closed all unvested employees should become fully vested.
    Officially terminating a plan helps ensure that the employer ties up any loose ends and fulfills all of its fiduciary responsibilities.
    If your employer never files for bankruptcy but merely locks the doors and is never heard from again, you and your coworkers may have to petition the bankruptcy court to appoint a new trustee to close the plan. This typically happens only in sole proprietorships and small partnerships, according to experts interviewed for this article. The amount of time it could take to get a court-appointed trustee, file for termination and get your money distributed depends on how fast the bankruptcy court works.
    It's unlikely that your employer could abscond with all of your 401k savings, since you should have account statements showing deposits. If you are not seeing deposits made in a timely manner you should ask your employer for an explanation. If you don't get a satisfactory one, contact the plan provider and ultimately the Department of Labor.
    Your Strategy
    If your employer, or a former employer still holding your 401k savings, has declared bankruptcy, contact the plan administrator immediately. Don't wait for it to contact you, said Wray. "The sooner you act, the better off you are," he said.
    Explain that you are a plan participant and provide your updated contact information. This way, you'll receive mailings related to the plan and any possible termination documents. When it comes to distributing savings, yours should arrive in timely fashion.
    Keep copies of quarterly statements and pay stubs showing your plan contributions. Retain the summary plan description you got when you enrolled in the plan. That lists the people and firms that administer the plan and its assets.
    This information can be helpful if you don't find out about a former employer's bankruptcy until long after the fact. If you have trouble locating your former plan, be assured that your savings do not go away. Some plans turn over the money to the state when missing participants can't be found, Wray said.
    Having your summary plan description and the tax ID number of your former employer can be helpful in finding your money. Try contacting the former plan trustee for help. If you run into a dead end, contact the Department of Labor's Employee Benefits Security Administration, which helps reconnect orphan 401k accounts with their rightful owners. You can reach the EBSA at 866.444.3272.
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