[RoyBacon]

Litecoin sure has acted poorly the last couple of weeks while everything else is soaring. It had the Segwit break from 11 to 38 but since then it's all selling.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Litecoin sure has acted poorly the last couple of weeks while everything else is soaring. It had the Segwit break from 11 to 38 but since then it's all selling.

My buddy told me about Litecoin and told me to sell a few weeks ago but I'm holding steady. I bought in like at $6. I think all these digital currencies will eventually be the way we spend money. I know a lot of people that don't want to be tracked by the feds and they love this shit. I expect once these types figure out how to buy and sell they are going to flood the market.

[RoyBacon]

I got a load of LTC too. They can go into into the dumps like btc did for about 3 years. LTC has a lot going for it. Coinbase is rumored to start trading them and I think its a good rumor. GDAX trades them, Coinbase's evil twin. I think we will end up with 4 or 5 coins and the rest will fade away. Very good gamble LTC is one of the 5.

[Mac4Lyfe]

I got a load of LTC too. They can go into into the dumps like btc did for about 3 years. LTC has a lot going for it. Coinbase is rumored to start trading them and I think its a good rumor. GDAX trades them, Coinbase's evil twin. I think we will end up with 4 or 5 coins and the rest will fade away. Very good gamble LTC is one of the 5.

Cinbase is already trading Litecoin. I bought a bunch through a few weeks ago.

[RoyBacon]

Yea I see that. You can save money trading them on GDAX.

[jjgold]

What is best and safest trading exchange

[RoyBacon]

What is best and safest trading exchange

I would say Coinbase and their exchange GDAX. The next would be Bitstamp but that would be a distant 2nd. For US guys you would be crazy to not to go with Coinbase/GDAX. Between all the thefts and collapses it's the smart play.

[chico2663]

good cause i use coin base

[MeanPeopleSuck]

good cause i use coin base

Hi, Chico, my VPN keeps getting me Banned by the system, so if there's a delay in any response to this post, that's why and not cuz I'm ignoring anybody!

I respectfully disagree w/ the previous poster. Get out of Coinbase now. Move to Bitstamp. Why? Well, first because the IRS has twice sued CB for the records of their clients and, as a US based company, CB is particularly vulnerable to any court rulings in the IRS's favor. Here's the latest on the second case: https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...ww.google.com/

Also, Bitstamp is the only EU approved, totally regulated BTC market in the world. Your money's safer there than at, say, Bitfinex or Poloniex or Kraken. But on the other hand, Bitstamp only offers access to only one -- one! -- lousy alt coin, although that coin is Ripple (XRP), which is up 50,000% in 6 months (that's not a typo).

Anyway, if you don't want the IRS making repeated efforts to see what you do and when you do it, move to Bitstamp, a company based in Luxembourg, well out of the reach of easy IRS jurisdiction.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

I would say Coinbase and their exchange GDAX. The next would be Bitstamp but that would be a distant 2nd. For US guys you would be crazy to not to go with Coinbase/GDAX. Between all the thefts and collapses it's the smart play.

If you report all your coin profits -- which everyone's got a staggering amount of -- then, OK, you won't mind the day CB finally loses one of these suits the IRS keeps bringing against it for access to its records. If, on the other hand, you're in the 99% of coin profiteers who maybe hasn't reported every penny you've made for taxation on his taxes, then CB, as a US company, is the worst place to be.

Bitstamp, a 100% regulated, EU approved company located in Luxembourg, where the IRS has no jurisdiction, is, IMHO, a much better option.

[RoyBacon]

If you report all your coin profits -- which everyone's got a staggering amount of -- then, OK, you won't mind the day CB finally loses one of these suits the IRS keeps bringing against it for access to its records. If, on the other hand, you're in the 99% of coin profiteers who maybe hasn't reported every penny you've made for taxation on his taxes, then CB, as a US company, is the worst place to be.

Bitstamp, a 100% regulated, EU approved company located in Luxembourg, where the IRS has no jurisdiction, is, IMHO, a much better option.

That is a good point and true. I report everything I do so it's not an issue for me. And I would also agree on Bitstamp but they do not trade anything but BTC. So you can't trade LTC or ETH there.

Plus, the govt already knows all any way. I bet part of Bitstamp's license stipulates they will cooperate with anti laundering requests. In other words, Bitstamp would give you faster than the media creates a trump story. But I do agree they are good and yes I would agree your info is a bit further away from your uncle.

[chico2663]

That is a good point and true. I report everything I do so it's not an issue for me. And I would also agree on Bitstamp but they do not trade anything but BTC. So you can't trade LTC or ETH there.

Plus, the govt already knows all any way. I bet part of Bitstamp's license stipulates they will cooperate with anti laundering requests. In other words, Bitstamp would give you faster than the media creates a trump story. But I do agree they are good and yes I would agree your info is a bit further away from your uncle.

I put it in my bank. If i ever do over 10,000 then they report it anyway.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

That is a good point and true. I report everything I do so it's not an issue for me. And I would also agree on Bitstamp but they do not trade anything but BTC. So you can't trade LTC or ETH there.

To be fair, Bitstamp does trade in Ripple (XRP), but I agree, that's a pretty limited menu in this day and age. If you're looking for alt coins -- and who's not, since lately all they do is rise and rise -- then Poloniex is the place to be. They trade 70+ alts (click the "BTC" tab to see them all): https://poloniex.com/exchange#usdt_btc

Poloniex is like a reverse casino: the players have an edge in any game they pick.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

I put it in my bank. If i ever do over 10,000 then they report it anyway.

Actually, almost no securities or reporting laws apply to bitcoin transactions (yet). If you open a wallet anonymously at Bitfinex or Poloniex or Kraken or somewhere even dicier, then move the coins around, transferring back and forth between a couple different coins a couple of times, at least once through the specifically designed anonymizing DASH or Monero coins, there is no currently existing way on earth to trace coins to owners. (If the WannaCry criminals do it properly, they'll get to keep the $110k that was sent to the foolishly small -- 3! -- set of bitcoin addresses they sent w/ their ransomwear).

Even should a development occur that CAN trace coins through the intentionally designed anonymizing currencies, the anarchist coiners are already developing a counter measure in Tumblers, an idea to shake all coins together so nobody knows whose were whose.

[Mac4Lyfe]

As long as Coinbase does not send me a 1099, why would I report gains to the IRS???

[RoyBacon]

As long as Coinbase does not send me a 1099, why would I report gains to the IRS???

If you transfer to or from a bank you should report it. All IRS audits start with all your bank account records, which the IRS will have. You show transfers and no gain/loss then they will know you excluded something. They won't care if you lost but if you scored and especially if you scored big and failed to report it they could go for a criminal complaint of tax evasion.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

As long as Coinbase does not send me a 1099, why would I report gains to the IRS???

Speaking PURELY hypothetically, let's say a coin trader made a bunch of money he didn't want to pay taxes on. The solution's easy: keep the money in offshore coin wallets and send what you need to yourself using gift or debit cards (Gyft and Bitpay are the two largest providers of these).

I'm an attorney -- not a tax attorney, but my best friend is one -- and, since almost all alt coin transactions are actually made in bitcoin, there's (an admittedly weak, but nonetheless unlitigated) legal argument to be made that when you buy and sell alt coins, you've never actually sold your bitcoin, that you've only just changed its form, so therefore your bitcoin profits aren't yet "realized" for tax purposes until you change them back to fiat (dollars / euros / pounds / whatever).

Roy's right about purely obeying the letter of the law, and as an Officer of the Court I'm not allowed to encourage anyone to break the law, but from the 'not for nothing' department: bitcoin accounts at all but a handful of places are anonymously opened, so your name's never associated with it. Add to that some churning between different wallets into and out of a few different coins, especially DASH and XMR (Monero), two coins specifically designed to insure the complete anonymity Bitcoin failed to accomplish, and tax wise, Bob's your uncle.

Good luck out there!

[RoyBacon]

Speaking PURELY hypothetically, let's say a coin trader made a bunch of money he didn't want to pay taxes on. The solution's easy: keep the money in offshore coin wallets and send what you need to yourself using gift or debit cards (Gyft and Bitpay are the two largest providers of these).

I'm an attorney -- not a tax attorney, but my best friend is one -- and, since almost all alt coin transactions are actually made in bitcoin, there's (an admittedly weak, but nonetheless unlitigated) legal argument to be made that when you buy and sell alt coins, you've never actually sold your bitcoin, that you've only just changed its form, so therefore your bitcoin profits aren't yet "realized" for tax purposes until you change them back to fiat (dollars / euros / pounds / whatever).

Roy's right about purely obeying the letter of the law, and as an Officer of the Court I'm not allowed to encourage anyone to break the law, but from the 'not for nothing' department: bitcoin accounts at all but a handful of places are anonymously opened, so your name's never associated with it. Add to that some churning between different wallets into and out of a few different coins, especially DASH and XMR (Monero), two coins specifically designed to insure the complete anonymity Bitcoin failed to accomplish, and tax wise, Bob's your uncle.

Good luck out there!

To continue this very hypothetical discussion, let's return to the audit scenario. The audit is a follow the money game. You send coinbase $20k and you get back $50k then the IRS knows you made a $30k profit.

What if you sent in $20k to coinbase and never received anything and your coinbase balance was zero? This would indicate not only did you not make money but you should report a loss.

You could spend them, pay bills or hold them in an anonymous wallet. I have heard of car dealers taking them if it meant a sale. Basically, you can pass muster if the sale does not enter the banking system.

A final word on this is most of these tax cases gone bad are the result of a snitch or a loose end. For example a spouse that you divorce knew you used Bitstamp for avoidance, they write a little email and suddenly during the IRS audit the IRS is demanding all your Bitstamp records. If one were to consider this route one would need to make sure there are no loose ends.

[chico2663]

funny story. Buddy of mine won the right to go to bubba the love sponge party bachelor party. THe question was the best 2 people on why they got divorced. His wife turned him in for 7 years city tax. lol

[RoyBacon]

funny story. Buddy of mine won the right to go to bubba the love sponge party bachelor party. THe question was the best 2 people on why they got divorced. His wife turned him in for 7 years city tax. lol

Yea I kind used the spouse purposely as an example. They love to anonymously rat out ex's.

I would much rather take the other side of the hypothetical argument. You will sleep better and probably live longer by keeping good records and paying the tax. The IRS does not mind a little fudging. But when you purposely act in a way to conceal then they want to make an example out of you. And I would guess they are looking for btc guys to make an example out of since the huge rise of btc.

[Otters27]

Mict is crashing today

[Mac4Lyfe]

If you transfer to or from a bank you should report it. All IRS audits start with all your bank account records, which the IRS will have. You show transfers and no gain/loss then they will know you excluded something. They won't care if you lost but if you scored and especially if you scored big and failed to report it they could go for a criminal complaint of tax evasion.

I think this is a key point. You should transfer from a bank BUT you should basically never transfer to a bank. If you start dumping large sums into your account that will always set off a trigger.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Mict is crashing today

That piece of shit is down ~18% today. But I'm sure Snowball will be telling everyone why losing over 52% in the last year is a good thing because they're going to split the shares. LOL

[chico2663]

vdrm is up in the time frame. vtgdf i am hoping they buy back. has been gaining every day since came out of bankruptcy.

[Mac4Lyfe]

vdrm is up in the time frame. vtgdf i am hoping they buy back. has been gaining every day since came out of bankruptcy.

Yeah, I bought a little bit when you first mentioned it last week. I think today is the first day it hasn't gone up.

I think I'm in at 2.4 Cents

[Snowball]

Mict is crashing today

it's down because they reported a loss of 25 cents, and in the
conference call they refused to promise profitability next quarter,
and the spinoff has a 3-6 month timeframe. when I mentioned this,
it was with an eye out to the second half of the year, and into the
future. it's not a trading stock so just a few sellers or buyers can
make it swing a lot like today at 1.00 now.
the good news is nothing has changed, and their shareholder equity was
reported over 11 million, at 6.x million shares the stock is currently being
traded at just over half it's book value.
i still think they will have no problem being worth over 20 million
which is 3+. it's a buy on the dips and hold stock, about fundamentals
and mid/long term gains, not a flipper stock.
i probably shouldn't have mentioned it here as if it takes a while to
develop i will get criticized.

[cubswin]

When ever someone says " Thank me latter " run away as fast as you can .

[Mac4Lyfe]

it's a buy on the dips stock, about fundamentals
and mid/long term gains, not a flipper stock.
i probably shouldn't have mentioned it here as if it takes a while to
develop i will get criticized.

You must be buying a shitload then because all this piece of shit has been doing is dipping.

I have no idea what fundamentals you speak of as you must be getting your ass reamed if you aren't flipping this shit. Of course you should not have mentioned this stock because if anyone followed your lead here, they would have lost almost half their investment. You say the company won't be profitable until next month, then why the hell would you pump the stock on a Friday after trading hours?

[RoyBacon]

Our boy LTC has a bit of stench today.

[chico2663]

yes i am sad i sold my bit coin and hell ltc has went down since i bought it

[RoyBacon]

I've bought it from $10 to $30. Every since it spiked at $38 it's really been under pressure. It's bounced off $22 twice. I'm going to hold out.

[Mac4Lyfe]

My buddy says Ethereum is the one to keep addind. Says it may become bigger than bitcoin, which I damn sure couldn't tell you.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

To continue this very hypothetical discussion, let's return to the audit scenario. The audit is a follow the money game. You send coinbase $20k and you get back $50k then the IRS knows you made a $30k profit.

What if you sent in $20k to coinbase and never received anything and your coinbase balance was zero? This would indicate not only did you not make money but you should report a loss.

You could spend them, pay bills or hold them in an anonymous wallet. I have heard of car dealers taking them if it meant a sale. Basically, you can pass muster if the sale does not enter the banking system.

A final word on this is most of these tax cases gone bad are the result of a snitch or a loose end. For example a spouse that you divorce knew you used Bitstamp for avoidance, they write a little email and suddenly during the IRS audit the IRS is demanding all your Bitstamp records. If one were to consider this route one would need to make sure there are no loose ends.

Good post. Well said. I concur with each statement.

So, Roy, it sounds like maybe you’re reconsidering your (admirable) policy of reporting every penny of coins profit? (Obviously, don’t reply to that statement, but I’d guess there’s plenty of people who would think that makes sense.)

It’s like reporting income from a yard or garage sale to the IRS. Sure, by the letter of the law, that yard sale income should be taxed, but, since unless you tell them about it yourself, the IRS has no way of knowing that income ever existed, well, then…..

Final Note: If we’re talking the kind of dollar values used in this hypothetical, $20k, then you wouldn’t even want the first purchase to be made through a site that requires ID verification, like Bitstamp. Completely anonymous transactions are available using LocalBitCoins, but they tend to charge extortionate, 10%-type surcharges for the privilege, so the first place I’d look are Bitfinex’s “OTC” option, which is specifically designed for large, anonymous transactions and/or Bitpay, which has acted as the broker for large transactions in the past.

Hey, maybe you’ll get as lucky as this guy: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles...house-bitcoin/

[MeanPeopleSuck]

yes i am sad i sold my bit coin and hell ltc has went down since i bought it

Hi, Chico, how's tricks?


Hey, I've been meaning to ask, why does LTC seem to be SBR’s alt-coin of choice? While predicting coin prices is borderline impossible, one rule that generally still applies is that after a coin without scaling problems (ie, every coin except BTC) adopts SegWit, the market goes nuts for it for absolutely no good reason, but only briefly, followed by a return to some form of sanity (examples: SysCoin, Litecoin, now EMC2). In fact, it was on those grounds that I bought LTC for the first time ever last week.

Is that how LTC earned its strange, “Favorite Alt of SBR” title?

If anyone's interested, I've found the charting data for alt coins on this site to be almost exclusively accurate, which definitely can't be said for all alt coin charting sites: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/views/all/

[RoyBacon]

Mean the problem with the avoidance angle is there is no way to get money to an anonymous buy site without leaving a trace. Reffering to your statement; "you wouldn’t even want the first purchase to be made through a site that requires ID verification, like Bitstamp. Completely anonymous transactions are available using LocalBitCoins," How so you fund it? Walk in their office with cash? Transfer, load off of a card and every other method leaves a trace. IF you did not want to put the proceeds back thru the US financial system you could claim (perjury another felony) that you have not sold them. That you moved them to cold storage offline. When in fact you sold them on the Russian exchange BTC-E. The audit would end and one day when you see the price wayyy back down you could but them in Russia, sell in the US and maybe capture a loss. So it's possible but to much work.

LTC is a favorite of the tech savvy crowd but so far they have been wrong. But I see $29.19 as the last trade so who knows.