[sam9ball]

Is he really worth almost 25M a year for the next 4 years?

The Philadelphia Phillies are precisely what we thought they'd be, while other teams similarly in transition are frantically swimming against the same riptide of bygone achievement. The Phillies once went all in, as they say. For good reason, too, as they filled their ballpark, made their money, satisfied their fans and played well into October for as long as a plundering model could sustain itself. Then, this – tired arms, distant shoreline and no signs of a rescue boat bobbing to the sounds of blenders and party music.

[Mr KLC]

Market is getting hot for starting pitching. Cardinals lost Wainwright. Dodgers need help. Red Sox staff is a disaster. Phillies are saying they will pay some of Hamels contract now to make a deal. He'll be gone before the deadline.

[Covy]

Phils will wait until he rebounds and let a bidding war ensue

He will be pricey but worth it

Amaro will kick in plenty of money to get as good of a prospect return as possible

[klemopixx]

With Harang pitching well and Billingsly returning tonight, along with Papelbon in the bullpen, the Phils might get a few REAL prospects before the deadline. If Amaro has a clue he would deal Hamels soon before his record looks too shitty. He needs a change of scenery, the guy looks bored taking the mound.

[STAX]

Hammels is one of the most overrated pitchers of this generation... but he could go somewhere and help out this year. I just wouldnt give much for him, and definately wouldnt sign him to a huge contract. Boston would be my bet right now as long as they are still in it around the deadline. Darkhorse- Kansas City

[Covy]

Hammels is one of the most overrated pitchers of this generation... but he could go somewhere and help out this year. I just wouldnt give much for him, and definately wouldnt sign him to a huge contract. Boston would be my bet right now as long as they are still in it around the deadline. Darkhorse- Kansas City

A few more good years away from being a potential Hall of Famer. Don't think HOFers are overrated

He's been the victim of poor run support for the past 2 seasons

[TwoWays]

Hammels can be the ace of any staff.

[Mr KLC]

I would love it if the Astros got him. That would be a"beast" Top 3 with Hamels, Keuchel, and McHugh.

[t-wizzle]

His contract is very reasonable when you look at the market.

Don't let his shaky start influence your opinion too much. He's still a very very good pitcher in this league.

The Phillies have dikked around for 4 years now. I wanted them to trade him and get a haul in 2012.

[STAX]

A few more good years away from being a potential Hall of Famer. Don't think HOFers are overrated

He's been the victim of poor run support for the past 2 seasons

109 wins and a 3.30 ERA is HOF now? 2 years of 15 or more wins, 2 years of a sub 3.00 ERA? He is only 31 though... He may make a push for 200 wins before his career is over. I dont think he is garbage by any means, but he's no ace either. He's a decent #2, Ill take him as my #3 any day. He's this generation's Jaime Moyer

[44 Mag]

Hammels is one of the most overrated pitchers of this generation... but he could go somewhere and help out this year. I just wouldnt give much for him, and definately wouldnt sign him to a huge contract. Boston would be my bet right now as long as they are still in it around the deadline. Darkhorse- Kansas City

Boston wants him desperately. Trouble is they are "cheap". Kind of like the Patriots.

[minet123]

Hammels is one of the most overrated pitchers of this generation...

^^^^^^^^
This

[t-wizzle]

Hammels is one of the most overrated pitchers of this generation... but he could go somewhere and help out this year. I just wouldnt give much for him, and definately wouldnt sign him to a huge contract. Boston would be my bet right now as long as they are still in it around the deadline. Darkhorse- Kansas City

109 wins and a 3.30 ERA is HOF now? 2 years of 15 or more wins, 2 years of a sub 3.00 ERA? He is only 31 though... He may make a push for 200 wins before his career is over. I dont think he is garbage by any means, but he's no ace either. He's a decent #2, Ill take him as my #3 any day. He's this generation's Jaime Moyer

You're talking out of your ass here. Anyone who uses "wins" to make an argument for a pitcher clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

How the hell do you go and compare him to Jamie Moyer? Moyer threw a Reagan-era fastball. He barely could hit 84 mph. Hamels has been low to mid 90s his entire career and has one of the best changeups in baseball.

On top of that he won a World Series MVP. I've never considered Hamels to be a guy like Verlander in his prime or Clayton Kershaw but he's damn good.

[STAX]

You're talking out of your ass here. Anyone who uses "wins" to make an argument for a pitcher clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

How the hell do you go and compare him to Jamie Moyer? Moyer threw a Reagan-era fastball. He barely could hit 84 mph. Hamels has been low to mid 90s his entire career and has one of the best changeups in baseball.

On top of that he won a World Series MVP. I've never considered Hamels to be a guy like Verlander in his prime or Clayton Kershaw but he's damn good.

Well, when you are talking hall of fame, wins and ERA are the two main stats for pitchers, whether you like it or not. I never said he wasnt good, he's just not an ace or even close to a HOFer. And he isnt worth the money he is going to get either, that's my main point. He was great in the post season when he won MVP... Jack Morris was great in about every post season game he pitched. He's not in the HOF and Hamels couldnt hold Jack Morris's jockstrap

[t-wizzle]

Well, when you are talking hall of fame, wins and ERA are the two main stats for pitchers, whether you like it or not. I never said he wasnt good, he's just not an ace or even close to a HOFer. And he isnt worth the money he is going to get either, that's my main point. He was great in the post season when he won MVP... Jack Morris was great in about every post season game he pitched. He's not in the HOF and Hamels couldnt hold Jack Morris's jockstrap

Do you even know what you're arguing about? Now you're bringing up the Hall of Fame.

Try and stay on topic here. Cole Hamels is, and has been, one of the best pitcher in baseball for 10 seasons now. To argue that he isn't because of his win total is asinine. He's pitched for a shit team for 4 years now and has consistently gotten some of the worst run support in baseball for years. Even when the Phillies were good, he wasn't getting good run support a couple of those years.

[STAX]

Do you even know what you're arguing about? Now you're bringing up the Hall of Fame.

Try and stay on topic here. Cole Hamels is, and has been, one of the best pitcher in baseball for 10 seasons now. To argue that he isn't because of his win total is asinine. He's pitched for a shit team for 4 years now and has consistently gotten some of the worst run support in baseball for years. Even when the Phillies were good, he wasn't getting good run support a couple of those years.

Now you're making excuses for him,,,, oh no he plays for a shit team or oh no he doesnt get run support, wah wah wah. I didnt mention the HOF, I was responding to a post that he is a HOFer, which is absurd. He's decent, but not even close to a top 25 pitcher in the league... and outside a year or two, he's never even sniffed the top 10. Hes a decent #2 starter, not trying to take anything away from that

[STAX]

Twizz he's your hometown boy, I get it... hes just not as widely regarded as an ace by the rest of the country as you think.

[Big Bear]

he is a gas can at the moment


i wouldnt trade a bucket of baseballs 1 pack of big league chew and 2 packs of sun flower seeds for him at this point.

Most likely he will get his dick bitten off by a shark at this rate

[t-wizzle]

Now you're making excuses for him,,,, oh no he plays for a shit team or oh no he doesnt get run support, wah wah wah. I didnt mention the HOF, I was responding to a post that he is a HOFer, which is absurd. He's decent, but not even close to a top 25 pitcher in the league... and outside a year or two, he's never even sniffed the top 10. Hes a decent #2 starter, not trying to take anything away from that

Twizz he's your hometown boy, I get it... hes just not as widely regarded as an ace by the rest of the country as you think.

I'm critical of plenty of Philadelphia athletes. Plenty. You're just talking out of your ass here. I'm not going to argue with you anymore. You want to go ahead and look at wins and use that for your argument then go ahead.

One other thing - I clearly stated that I don't view him as a great pitcher. I said he's very good. And he is, and has been. An ERA of about 3.00 over the past 5 seasons is definitely among the best in baseball.

[broadway6]

hope he has 3-4 more bad outings and Cardinals can get him without giving up to much

[t-wizzle]

hope he has 3-4 more bad outings and Cardinals can get him without giving up to much

The Phillies won't trade him unless they get a haul.

[STAX]

I'm critical of plenty of Philadelphia athletes. Plenty. You're just talking out of your ass here. I'm not going to argue with you anymore. You want to go ahead and look at wins and use that for your argument then go ahead.

One other thing - I clearly stated that I don't view him as a great pitcher. I said he's very good. And he is, and has been. An ERA of about 3.00 over the past 5 seasons is definitely among the best in baseball.

You said he was one of the best pitchers in baseball for ten years... lmao.

And its fine not to use wins ( I only brought that up to the poster who said he's a HOFer), I agree with you, wins are not the barometer of a good pitcher... what stats would you like to use? His career ERA of 3.30 is pretty good, I gave him credit for that. But its not trade the farm good or 100MIL good or HOF good unless there's something else to back it up.

[TwoWays]

Most here called him overrated. Yet every baseball team would love to get him on their pitching staff

[STAX]

Most here called him overrated. Yet every baseball team would love to get him on their pitching staff

Id love him too, but not as my ace. And not for the farm, and not for 100 million... He's a consistent left-hander who can eat up innings, and stays healthy. He isnt a guy who's gonna win you a game when you only score 1 or 2 runs. He isn't a guy who's gonna hault a losing streak every time. He isnt gonna outpitch the other team's ace and win a game for you 2-1. He'll give you 7 innings, give up 3 runs and call it a day. Id love him on my team, but if he's your best guy? You're fukked!