[buztah]

Playing for the first time today. Curious if anyone here plays it and has an opinion.

[Wizard23]

I'm not sure how the rules have changed for it over the years..i used to play it when i was a kid, then moved to quebec where we have mise-o-jeu. One thing for certain...governement run sports lottery wagering is an absolute joke! They offer mafia odds with unbelieveable rules to wager....this is exactly what i would deem illegal gambling..not the offshore books! Stick with casinos/sportsbooks to place your wagers, otherwise your setting yourself up for a sure loss!!!

[Mudcat]

I have played it years ago but there is no way I would now. The odds are so much worse than the parlays I can play at my offshore accounts that it would just be foolish. It would be throwing away money.

Every once in awhile an urban legend makes the rounds of someone who has gotten rich playing Pro-line. I just roll my eyes.

But if you don't have funded off-shore accounts and you understand that you are going to lose in the long run, it can add some interest to some games.

[GamblingPrincessXOXO]

Mise au Jeu (quebec version of proline) payout schedule for spread and total bets:

Number of games on which
you wagered Potential winnings
3 5 times the wager
4 8 times the wager
5 15 times the wager
6 25 times the wager

If you play a 6 team parlay at your typical sportsbooks your getting 1.91x1.91x1.91x1.91x1.91x1.91 = 48.55 times your wager.

So you bet $10, which would you go to? the one that pays back $250 or the one that pays back $485.50

I doubt the govt will give you a 10% bonus when you give the cashier your money either.

STAY AWAY FROM THESE CROOKS!!!

the only benifit is the immediate cashback which you could collect at any convenience store. Although I remember that if you win over $600 on a ticket you have to send away to their head office to collect your winnings. I'm not sure if thats still the limit though.

[Hulu]

Every once in awhile an urban legend makes the rounds of someone who has gotten rich playing Pro-line. I just roll my eyes.

I used to believe that as well. I played pro-line in high school and tried every which way to make it profitable before I discovered off-shore books. No matter which way you slice it, pro-line is simply a way for you to augment your tax dollars and hand over more to the government.

But then these guys got charged with evading their taxes after winning huge sums for a few years playing pro-line. I'm still not sure how they did it but its clear that after making the kind of profits they were making over a sustained period of time, they had something working for them. They couldn't just be the luckiest 2 guys in the world could they?

I remember hearing at the time that they would would watch line movements at offshore books and then go back and place bets on pro-line where the lines don't move. They also negotiated a better deal with individual retailers to lower their risk slightly. Even with this though, there should still be no way to make a profit at it.

http://decision.tcc-cci.gc.ca/en/200...006tcc680.html

Here's an excerpt that describes the amount of money they were handling.

[21] Two things stand out: (a) the magnitude of their betting defies all logic. It is simply not susceptible of rational analysis; (b) nonetheless they won. It looks as if they won big. If the estimate of $10,000,000 to $13,000,000 per year is accurate ― and that is all I have to go on ― they spent upwards of $52,000,000 over four years. The evidence also shows that Brian played the lottery once in Alberta and at least once in Nova Scotia. It appears that once Brian also went to Australia to gamble. The agreed figure of the net winnings in those years was $2,761,544 for each brother or $5,523,088 in the aggregate. Obviously the appellants were very successful in their wagering on government-run sports lotteries, in particular, two big wins in early 1996 and another in 1999. The appellants say this is because they have been "lucky". The respondent says this is because they have developed a "system".

[22] I mentioned above that I had some difficulty accepting the accuracy of the numbers that were being thrown around with a certain devil-may-care insouciance. Nonetheless, the net winnings are agreed upon and I have the appellants' unchallenged testimony about the amount they spent on the sports lotteries. If we accept these figures it would mean that if they spent $50,000,000 to produce net winnings of $5,500,000 they must have had gross winnings of a mind-boggling $55,500,000.

[jjgold]

It is good for HS kids betting $1 per card or guys that are 75 betting one per card, anyone else playing would be a sucker.

[buztah]

Too damn hard. Played twice this weekend. I can hardly get one right at the greek let alone 3 right. LOL!

[ProlinePlayer]

Hello folks,

Been a long time reader of the posts on this forum. The posters rate as first class in my opinion. However on this subject you are just flat out wrong.

First let me assure you that the 'urban legends' are far from that. I personally know Poindexter (tax case mentioned above) and he admits to a net win of over 5 million $. I think you'll agree that it is somewhat unlikely that he would exaggerate the amount to the tax department.

A common concept that involves any thread on a forum with regards to proline is that it is a government ripoff and that any smart bettor should be playing offshore. Nothing could be further from the truth. As someone who has bet offshore with a fair degree of sucess for 20 years, I admit that I find it difficult to take money off the books. It can be done, but it's tough. I've also bet proline since its inception about 15 years back. It is like taking candy from a baby.

Anyone who tells you that Proline is for suckers and that offshore is better, either does not understand the game or does not understand how to win money.

ProlinePlayer

[GamblingPrincessXOXO]

ProlinePlayer,

You make absolutely now sense. Any bet you make on Proline could be replicated offshore at double the odds. The offshore player will come out ahead every time.

[wack]

Unless the lines don't move on proline?

[buztah]

Classic ex. I'm playing Cubs - 1 1/2 today at 1.91 odds at the greek. On proline this bet is at 1.30 and I can't just make this bet I MUST parlay with two other outcomes. RIP OFF!

[Santo]

Isn't proline like a (poor-paying) parlay card? Lines remain fixed.

[ProlinePlayer]

Classic ex. I'm playing Cubs - 1 1/2 today at 1.91 odds at the greek. On proline this bet is at 1.30 and I can't just make this bet I MUST parlay with two other outcomes. RIP OFF!

Sure if you look for bets where you have the worst of it. How about this for an idea ... Bet spots where you get the best of the number

How about Wsox under 8.5 @ 1.80 ?

[ProlinePlayer]

Isn't proline like a (poor-paying) parlay card? Lines remain fixed.

Yes it is. Very high vig. Lines set by people who have no idea what they're doing.

It would be like betting on a coin flip. Pnnacle heads -105 / tails -105. Proline heads -140 / tails +110.

Guess what? I'm the sucker betting at proline instead of getting the lower vig at Pinnacle. Low vig is not the most important factor in where you place your bets.

ProlinePlayer

[buztah]

Who you playin tonight, proline?

[Ganchrow]

Yes it is. Very high vig. Lines set by people who have no idea what they're doing.

It would be like betting on a coin flip. Pnnacle heads -105 / tails -105. Proline heads -140 / tails +110.

Guess what? I'm the sucker betting at proline instead of getting the lower vig at Pinnacle. Low vig is not the most important factor in where you place your bets.

Here's what I find most troublesome about OddSet (which, as far as I cam tell, is the BC version of Pro-Line):

The aggregate amount of prizes that may be won on any day on SPORTS ACTION ODDSET and/or SPORTS ACTION ODDSET COMBO shall be limited to five million ($5,000,000.00) dollars. If at the end of a particular day the aggregate amount of prizes that could be won, but for this provision, would exceed five million ($5,000,000.00) dollars, then the aggregate amount of prizes payable on all winning tickets for that day shall automatically be reduced, and the amount payable as a prize in respect of each winning ticket for that day shall be equal to:

1. the amount bet by such ticket, plus
2. the amount that would have been payable as a prize before any reduction
   less the amount of the wager multiplied by a fraction, having as its
   numerator five million ($5,000,000.00) dollars, less the aggregate of all
   amounts bet on SPORTS ACTION ODDSET and/or SPORTS ACTION
   ODDSET COMBO for that day and, as its denominator, the aggregate
   amount of prizes that would have been payable on all winning tickets for
   that day before any reduction, less the aggregate of all amounts bet (the
   “Adjustment”).

[ShamsWoof10]

What is the link to this proline site? What are their limits and do they take straight bets..?

[ProlinePlayer]

Ganchrow,

I myself would normally be worried by provisions such as you mentioned. In this case the issue is not really that serious.

In 15 years and 5 lottery jurisdictions, to the best of knowledge, this liabiltiy clause has been invoked only once. One night, about seven years back, Poindexter beat the Atlantic Lottery Corp for 2.1 million on some NBA games. They limited his win to only 1.8.

In the early days they were a lot easier to beat and had very little idea of the danger that they were in. Even then the clause was used only in that instance. Now they have learned to fear the sharp players and have taken counter measures. The primary one is to stop taking action on games or certain parlays if the action is too one sided. Another is to severely limit the amount that players are allowed to wager.

With these restrictions in place I do not see see a real problem with the liablility issue.

ProlinePlayer

[ProlinePlayer]

Who you playin tonight, proline?

From your earlier post I assume you're from Ontario. Very tough slate of games to beat there tonight but there is still a bit of profit potential.

The only strong wager is Wsox-Anaheim under 8.5 1.80. You should have a positive expectancy on this play in the area of +7%.

For the other two teams in the parlay the pickings are very slim.
Possibles though would be :
Toronto-Texas under 11.5 1.80
KC to win 2.50
Blackburn (soccer) to win 3.40

These 3 plays should have an +- expectancy very close to 0.

ProlinePlayer

[Hulu]

In the early days they were a lot easier to beat and had very little idea of the danger that they were in.

I'd agree with that. I played Pro-Line when it first came out and I was 17. The weekly list of games came out on Thursday as I recall and the odds would never change throughout the week so you could beat the hell out of it. I made it almost like a part-time job one year and made some spending money. The toughest part was finding places to play where they wouldn't ID me because I was underage.

After a while though they changed the system so you only had odds for a couple of days in advance which made it much tougher for me.

After reading about the Leblanc bros. I see there must be a way to make a long term profit at it. I just haven't found it yet.

[betplom]

Speaking of the old days, I remember when OTTAWA was terrible (mid 90's) and pro line offered +800 (9.0 digital odds) on the Senators to beat Lemieux and the Penguins. Well Ottawa won and there were lineups at the OLGC office for people who managed to find 2 other games to produce a big payout.

You used to be able to take 6 tie games as a parlay at 6.00 odds.

(6x6x6x6x6x6) which would do alot of damage if it ever hit. They stopped this practise early on in pro line.

[Brady2Moss]

Just for the record PROLINE CAN BE BEAT.

Im in BC and over here its called SportsAction. The lines here dont move, oddset or PS. But point spread picks on a 5 team parlay only pay 1.70 odds (instead of usual 1.91 odds) But the thing is these guys give incredible value on most ties and underdogs. Also on the PS for baseball they have some large favorites at -0.5 instead of -1.5

You can just go to prolineplayer.com and see all the edges they give up

[sickler]

Hello folks,

Been a long time reader of the posts on this forum. The posters rate as first class in my opinion. However on this subject you are just flat out wrong.

First let me assure you that the 'urban legends' are far from that. I personally know Poindexter (tax case mentioned above) and he admits to a net win of over 5 million $. I think you'll agree that it is somewhat unlikely that he would exaggerate the amount to the tax department.

A common concept that involves any thread on a forum with regards to proline is that it is a government ripoff and that any smart bettor should be playing offshore. Nothing could be further from the truth. As someone who has bet offshore with a fair degree of sucess for 20 years, I admit that I find it difficult to take money off the books. It can be done, but it's tough. I've also bet proline since its inception about 15 years back. It is like taking candy from a baby.

Anyone who tells you that Proline is for suckers and that offshore is better, either does not understand the game or does not understand how to win money.

ProlinePlayer

Hey PLP, lots of young or novice gamblers here. They don't know how to take advantage of edges. I've also played it regularly since it hit Ontario. I wouldn't want to live without it.

Big thanks for your site. My first stop early every morning. You've saved myself (and undoubtedly many others) a lot of time comparing proline odds to offshore.

[sickler]

And to show that I'm one of the "suckers", these tickets were bought friday. Houston had a slight edge on proline compared to pinnacle. Berkman was given dog odds in the matchup (also being on the visiting team is a bonus...much like playing a home team RL, playing the home team hitter can screw you out of an at-bat if it only goes 8.5 innings. Florida had a slight edge on proline compared to pinnacle. I backed up Florida win with the tie. Florida won by one run, therefore the tie also cashed, Houston won and Berkman won the matchup. First two tickets cashed. Need Sask to win by 4 tonight for the $220. Right now Pinny has Tor +6.5 -110. I could hedge and take a shot at middling this if Sask wins by 4-6 pts. There's not a lot of money riding on this ($220 ain't much) but it's a great feeling hitting a middle, so I might drop a bit on Tor +6.5. Wouldn't you naysayers want to be in this position?
.
.
.

[Brady2Moss]

Why dont you just play online, its easier

[sickler]

Why dont you just play online, its easier

I do play online, but I take advantage of Proline. Why limit yourself?

[sickler]

Saskatchewan won by 6 points, therefore the proline ticket (Sask -3.5) and the hedge (Tor +6.5) cashed. Lovely.

Max, if you're looking in, you asked about combining Proline and online. This is a classic example.

[Brady2Moss]

No, I mean play proline online.

[sickler]

Not available in Ontario. Still gotta brave the elements and converse with clerk at lottery terminal to get your ticks.

[Brady2Moss]

Oh, thats pretty bad... Whats the biggest ticket you ever cashed with them?

[sickler]

Oh, thats pretty bad... Whats the biggest ticket you ever cashed with them?

The biggest ticket doesn't tell the story. It was many identical tickets. They screwed up bigtime with several soccer games (the fave they intended to give 1.4 odds was given 6.0, the dog was given 1.4 instead of 6.0. If I remember correctly, there were 4 games with these inverted odds, and three of them won. I was out very early getting the tickets before they pulled the games. Each ticket paid about $500, but lots of them.

[Brady2Moss]

Wow, and they still payed even with the error? Most books would screw you in that case

[sickler]

They pay if they put out bad lines and you get the tickets before the games become off the board.

And unlike taking a shot at a book which will be greeted with heckling by most players, this is the government we're talking about.

[max_asdf]

wow nice job...
sickler post anymore of these of edges if u see them....

[Brady2Moss]

And you trust the government?