[DwightShrute]

... ... call me crazy ...

You're CRAZY

[daggerkobe]

Blaming illegals for California being bankrupt is as silly as andy the wacko blaming "liberals" for country's problems.

Sure, illegals cost California billions.... but they also bring billions into their economy. Last I checked illegals must also buy food, cars and housing. Plus majority of construction and farming jobs are filled by illegals.

The real reason for California's financial woes stem from a Republican governor who slashed billions in tax revenue (especially the Car Tax which cost the state $36 BILLION) while increasing spending by 40%. It doesnt take an economist to figure out that if you slash revenue and increase spending it will lead to financial ruin.

To those who claim government cant run anything...... uh the police, fire department, Department of Water & Power, Public transportation, schools, road work, sewers, etc. More things are run by the Government than just the DMV.

And what insurance company doesnt require you to choose a primary doctor whom you are always required to see first for anything?

[flyingillini]

Obama needs to be thrown out. He is the worst thing that has ever happened to this Country. Thank God, I won't have to deal with the US anymore. Toronto here I come!

[jgray]

Blaming illegals for California being bankrupt is as silly as andy the wacko blaming "liberals" for country's problems. Sure, illegals cost California billions.... but they also bring billions into their economy. Last I checked illegals must also buy food, cars and housing. Plus majority of construction and farming jobs are filled by illegals. The real reason for California's financial woes stem from a Republican governor who slashed billions in tax revenue (especially the Car Tax which cost the state $36 BILLION) while increasing spending by 40%. It doesnt take an economist to figure out that if you slash revenue and increase spending it will lead to financial ruin. To those who claim government cant run anything...... uh the police, fire department, Department of Water & Power, Public transportation, schools, road work, sewers, etc. More things are run by the Government than just the DMV. And what insurance company doesnt require you to choose a primary doctor whom you are always required to see first for anything?

The issue is federal vs. state government. None of those thing you have listed should be addressed by the Feds. Those are each inherently local in nature and need to remain there. Instead, we have federal laws dealing with almost all of them. Health care is another that should not be a federal concern.

[jw]

You're CRAZY

Problem is - you're not saying anything - you are just complaining about the people that are in without suggesting an alternative - tell you what - i'll do you a deal - you tell your guys to stop killing innocent women and children in foreign countries and quit telling me where I can and cannot gamble - and i'll tell my lot to quit trying to give everyone free healthcare and quit building new roads, fixing bridges and overhauling power grids .. deal?



Having said all that - my wife will be getting ready for her night shift shortly so I should probably go make her something to eat and pretend I've been playing nice with you guys ... talk of government bores me .. nobody can win .. its an endless circular argument that just ensures 50% of the population are pissed at any given point in time .... so i'll say ...

C'mon New England, C'mon the Vikings and good luck to those that are going big on anything today/tonight.

[DwightShrute]

Obama needs to be thrown out. He is the worst thing that has ever happened to this Country. Thank God, I won't have to deal with the US anymore. Toronto here I come!

Worst president ever

[daggerkobe]

The issue is federal vs. state government. None of those thing you have listed should be addressed by the Feds. Those are each inherently local in nature and need to remain there. Instead, we have federal laws dealing with almost all of them. Health care is another that should not be a federal concern.

Its not a government run healthcare so you have nothing to worry about.

[jgray]

Its not a government run healthcare so you have nothing to worry about.

Can you gaurantee I won't pay more in federal taxes?

[Brock Landers]

Knownone, wtf, look at health care in other countries, it's a logical step that we should have made years ago.

BINGO! its pretty amazing if you've had something so long like healthcare, you go without and get sick, then you will know what a hurting is all about.

no other civilized country is without it.

[nosniboR11]

brock always wanting people to help his ass out, gambled money he did not have needed help from family, no insurance so he wants the tax payers to provide it for this loser, the day is coming for all you idiot liberals. See if you would of actually did something with your life you would not want these damn handouts.

[Brock Landers]

brock always wanting people to help his ass out, gambled money he did not have needed help from family, no insurance so he wants the tax payers to provide it for this loser, the day is coming for all you idiot liberals. See if you would of actually did something with your life you would not want these damn handouts.

i've got, and have always had insurance. BUT what i was saying is i can see where if you don't, and end up unable to get the treatment you need, or pay the insane bills, then you will know the real meaning of hurt.

So next time, get a clue fukko.

[jgray]

i've got, and have always had insurance. BUT what i was saying is i can see where if you don't, and end up unable to get the treatment you need, or pay the insane bills, then you will know the real meaning of hurt. So next time, get a clue fukko.

Come on dude. Why should we all have to pay for the guy that doesn't get insurance?

Here's the problem I have. The plan won't work right. I will still pay thousands a year for my health coverage but I'll also be stuck paying higher taxes so others can be covered. How is that fair?

[reno cool]

because insurance is a scam.
It's a disgrace that this country can do nothing better than to submit the public to this scam.
But you idiots can go on blaming some boogie man, the poor, immigrants, minorities, whoever.

[Sam Odom]

I feel sorry for my grandkids May God bless them

[pavyracer]

I feel sorry for my grandkids May God bless them

You have grandkids?

[Sam Odom]

Yes , I have 3 kids , two are all ready married

[daggerkobe]

[daggerkobe]

Can you gaurantee I won't pay more in federal taxes?

Not likely unless you make over $500,000.

This reform will lower insurance premiums and prevent insurers from denying coverage and treatment. It will also reduce the National Deficit by $130 Billion.

[Cougar Bait]

Blaming illegals for California being bankrupt is as silly as andy the wacko blaming "liberals" for country's problems. Sure, illegals cost California billions

[mmike032]

[Indecent]

all the people that work will be paying for the lazy unemployed drunks, druggies, etc

If you support this bill get the fuk out of this Country

How very American and open minded

[craig4nr]

Yup, people who are sick shouldn't have healthcare unless they pay for it out of their own pocket. Lost your job? Tough shit. Need a major surgery? Sorry. You should've had more money.

While we're at it, all emergency services should be paid for per call. Why should I have to pay for the fire department? My house isn't burning down. You got mugged on the street? Better beg the guy to leave you $20 so the cops will investigate his ass.

Because THAT'S the American way; and if you don't agree with me get out of my country because I'm a true American and only my opinion matters.

[1st and Ten]

what a disaster

[Jimmy0607]

JW

[reno cool]

Problem is - you're not saying anything - you are just complaining about the people that are in without suggesting an alternative - tell you what - i'll do you a deal - you tell your guys to stop killing innocent women and children in foreign countries and quit telling me where I can and cannot gamble - and i'll tell my lot to quit trying to give everyone free healthcare and quit building new roads, fixing bridges and overhauling power grids .. deal?



Having said all that - my wife will be getting ready for her night shift shortly so I should probably go make her something to eat and pretend I've been playing nice with you guys ... talk of government bores me .. nobody can win .. its an endless circular argument that just ensures 50% of the population are pissed at any given point in time .... so i'll say ...

C'mon New England, C'mon the Vikings and good luck to those that are going big on anything today/tonight.

good stuff. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[betplom]

good stuff. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Reno, I'm glad to be living in a communist country like Canada.

I think it's time Canada built a fence along our border with the USA - you know to prevent all the American trash from spilling over into our beautiful country.

[pico]

you guys will be waiting 10 hours to get treated in the emergency rooms. lol

[betplom]

you guys will be waiting 10 hours to get treated in the emergency rooms. lol

10 hours vs never (if you have no coverage)

put me down for the 10 hour wait (as most would choose)

Pico, what facts did you base the wait times on?

I've never waited more than 2 hours in emergency - the most serious cases get priority - which makes sense to reasonable people.

If I'm in emergency for something minor and an accident victim is wheeled in unconscious, should I get treated before the more serious case because I was there first?

[pico]

10 hours for broken arm.

3 days if you got the flu

three months if you want to check if you got cancer.

[urge2kill]

10 hours vs never (if you have no coverage)

ERs are required by law to treat anybody who needs emergency care whether they have insurance or not. They cannot turn away uninsured patients.

[betplom]

ERs are required by law to treat anybody who needs emergency care whether they have insurance or not. They cannot turn away uninsured patients.

Can they bankrupt them after they treat them in the ER?

Is there a wait in the ER if you are uninsured or do they move you to the front of the line?

[betplom]

10 hours for broken arm.

3 days if you got the flu

three months if you want to check if you got cancer.

This is your prediction for America?

I'm glad I live in a country where what you describe is not possible.

[craig4nr]

So the ERs are already required by law to cover the uninsured that come in, but somehow paying for the uninsured will cost us more? But we're already covering them.

Lines in emergency rooms will be longer? But the ininsured will be covered, and therefore they'll be able to go to a family physician when they get a cold instead of holding up the ER line.

Anti-healthcare math: covering the people you're already paying for + less people in the emergency rooms = more costs and longer waits

Sounds ......like complete bullshit.

[andywend]

This thread is absolutely stuffed with left-wing lunatics and its revolting to see them embrace the horrors of Obamacare.

In a perfect world, only they would be subject to Obama's medical plan while the rest of us would continue to enjoy the quality medical care we are receiving under the current medical care system.

While liberal democrats have given us many reasons to despise them, they are now 100% responsible for the upcoming complete and total breakdown of our medical delivery system and what will soon be the entire country. The CANCER that is the democratic party is well on its way of bringing down the host.

First up, the KING OF ALL IDIOTS, THE ONE AND ONLY DAGGERKOBE:

Blaming illegals for California being bankrupt is as silly as andy the wacko blaming "liberals" for country's problems.

Sure, illegals cost California billions.... but they also bring billions into their economy. Last I checked illegals must also buy food, cars and housing. Plus majority of construction and farming jobs are filled by illegals.

According to this brain-dead left-wing lunatic, illegals hopping over the border are good for the United States of America. Why not tear down the border completely and encourage all of them to come? We'll all be rich, LOL.

And what insurance company doesnt require you to choose a primary doctor whom you are always required to see first for anything?

You really look like a fool when you try and talk about things you know ABSOLUTELY nothing about. You don't want to see a primary doctor, then buy a PPO policy and you can see any doctor you choose, whenever you choose and for whatever reason you choose.

Liberal democrats in the state senate and assembly are 100% responsible for the financial meltdown in California. Socialists like DaggerKobe will always blame the problem on tax cuts but never mention all the money that is thrown down the drain in entitlement benefits. Your $36 BILLION number is tainted as it comes from a San Francisco website that believes the city of Berkeley is too conservative. Regardless, returning money to its rightful owners is NEVER a bad thing.

you tell your guys to stop killing innocent women and children in foreign countries and quit telling me where I can and cannot gamble - and i'll tell my lot to quit trying to give everyone free healthcare and quit building new roads, fixing bridges and overhauling power grids .. deal?

JW, tell your side to quit trying to give everyone free healthcare and I'll tell my side (and President Obama) to bring all the troops home from around the world and start protecting our country from within. Also, when it comes to gambling, the GOP can go fukk themselves. Infrastructure improvements is NOT a democrat v republican issue so not sure why you decided to throw that in.

It's a disgrace that this country can do nothing better than to submit the public to this insurance scam.

Either we have insurance companies or we go back to the strict cash for services rendered type of medical system where EVERYBODY pays for medical care. No other system will provide anywhere near the same quality of medical care that 90% of Americans enjoy today.

This reform will lower insurance premiums and prevent insurers from denying coverage and treatment. It will also reduce the National Deficit by $130 Billion.

Just so I have this straight:
1. Obamacare is going to cover all those that currently do NOT have insurance and will subsidize the cost whenever necessary.
2. Obamacare is going to cover all those with pre-existing conditions at regular rates and will also subsidize the cost.
3. In order to get Obamacare passed, Harry Reid had to promise all sorts of federal goodies to the moderate democrats that held out including Mary Landrieu, Ben Nelson and all the others.

Anybody with even the slightest bit of common sense knows there is no possible way this travesty is going to result in a $130 BILLION reduction in our national deficit. A MASSIVE new government program which encompasses over 2300 pages promising free or reduced medical care for all and they have the nerve to tell the American people how much money we are all going to save with this legislation.

Is the moon made of green cheese as well?

Yup, people who are sick shouldn't have healthcare unless they pay for it out of their own pocket. Lost your job? Tough shit. Need a major surgery? Sorry. You should've had more money.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Why do left-wing lunatics feel its so terribly wrong to force someone to pay for their own healthcare but feel its absolutely right to have someone else pay for it? Either pay for it yourself or get a job at McDonald's sweeping floors if you have to. They are hiring and offer fine medical plans to their full time workers. Don't ask others to pay for your healthcare as its your responsibility.

I think it's time Canada built a fence along our border with the USA - you know to prevent all the American trash from spilling over into our beautiful country.

The only American trash that would dare step foot into the socialistic cesspool of Canada to obtain medical care are the 10% that refuse to insure themselves. Unfortunately, this disgusting legislation is designed to help these parasites at the direct expense of the other 90% of Americans that work hard and have earned the privilege of high quality medical care.

As far as building a fence along the Canadian border with the USA, you have my full support if it means keeping out Canadians from coming to my country when the need for highly specialized medical care arises. However, with the passage of Obamacare, the U.S. will no longer have this problem as our medical care system will be far worse than even the pathetic Canadian system currently in place.

The one bright spot I can find with the passage of Obamacare is the negative effect it will have on Canadians like BetPlom.

As we all know, Canada's socialized medical system has ground new drug research to a halt which is why Canada is forced to wait for U.S. drug patents to expire before they can mass market generic versions for her citizens. With the passage of Obamacare, there won't be any new cutting edge drugs for Canada to steal from the U.S.

Can they bankrupt them after they treat them in the ER?

Unfortunately, there isn't a system in place for emergency rooms to identify deadbeat parasites who refuse to pay for the medical services they receive. If I ran an emergency room and someone came in who refused to pay their bill, I would leave them to die in the waiting room.

Is there a wait in the ER if you are uninsured or do they move you to the front of the line?

Are you trying to make a case that those that are uninsured should receive preferential treatment over those that have insurance? With that kind of thinking, I'm sure there is a place for you in Barack Obama's cabinet. Betplom, I sure am glad you don't live in America either. Any chance you can take a hundred million or so of your liberal American comrades back to Canada with you?

So the ERs are already required by law to cover the uninsured that come in, but somehow paying for the uninsured will cost us more? But we're already covering them. Lines in emergency rooms will be longer? But the ininsured will be covered, and therefore they'll be able to go to a family physician when they get a cold instead of holding up the ER line. Anti-healthcare math: covering the people you're already paying for + less people in the emergency rooms = more costs and longer waits Sounds ......like complete bullshit.

Craig4nr, the problem is people like yourself don't possess the intelligence to understand what actually happens when the federal government takes over the delivery of medicine.

Demand for medical care is going to skyrocket while the supply is going to deteriorate. Many states have already switched to a more socialized type of medical system and these changes instantly came with the closing of many highly specialized medical facilities.

Socializing the entire system will lead to an increased demand for medical services and when coupled with the decrease in supply is going to lead to massive shortages and government rationing of medical care.

[pico]

those who supports health care: degen gamblers on some kind of gov subsidized jobs (walmart for example)...or unemployed

those who oppose: degen gamblers that owns small business