[losturmarbles]

What is it with neonitwits and their aversion to FACTS?

According to the IRS, 6 Million illegals file income tax returns each year. They contribute $7 Billion to Social Security each year.

According to Congressional Budget Office, up to 75% of illegals pay federal, state and local taxes.

According to studies, illegals bring in more in taxes and purchase of goods & services than they cost in public services. Due to the fact that many illegals avoid using public services fearing they would be caught.

Not to mention farming, construction and restaurant businesses would collapse if all illegals were deported.

The real reason for California's financial crisis is their Republican Governor who slashed taxes (especially the Car Tax) which cost the state $36 BILLION in revenue. He also increased spending by 40%.

So why dont you neonitwits place the blame where it squarely belongs and not on the easy scapegoats.

umm, NOT FACTS.

why do you always try to divert the topic of a thread into your own agenda of bias and obtuse talking points?

[andywend]

I said the following:

Will you still feel the same way when these democrats exempt themselves and their families from the plan they just passed?

Will you abandon your useless democratic party if they do indeed decide to exempt themselves from this legislation or you are you too blind and stupid to commit to it?

DaggerKobe replied with the following:

Sure, voting instead to not give any insurance to the 30 Million uninsured Americans is the neocon way.

Losturmarbles hit the nail right on the head.

DaggerKobe, why do you always divert the subject matter into your own agenda of bias?

That is EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID HERE.

[daggerkobe]

Matchbook allows their customers access to every single bet they have placed dating back to when the site initially went online with the click of a mouse.

If you're really serious about doing this, lets do it for something meaningful.

Are you willing to back up that big mouth of yours?

I already told you.

Put up $10,000. I want to not only destroy you but bankrupt you.

[daggerkobe]

umm, NOT FACTS.

why do you always try to divert the topic of a thread into your own agenda of bias and obtuse talking points?

No one is more biased than you. Look at your neonitwit friends.... posting chain letters and ultra neocon websites as "fact" yet not a peep out of you.

I actually got unbiased sources on my side. Do you? Didnt think so.

[andywend]

Forget posting privileges. We both know you have more than 1 account. And will post with others when you lose. Put up $10,000 at Matchbook and we can pick until the end of March Madness and I'll destroy you just as Ive destroyed you in politics.

Destroyed me in politics? How old are you? Am I dealing with an 18 year old here?

The democratic party has always been the party of FAILURE and its right where you belong.

Indeed, I do have many accounts so if you are willing to back up that big mouth of yours with action, it will only involve bets placed at Matchbook.

I am very interested in any sort of contest you want to put together and am willing to agree to any terms you see fit.

However, the contest would have to include a permanent banishment from this forum or a large wager or both and we would have to figure out a way where we can both post up funds as I trust your word about as far as I can sling a piano.

If Lou or Bill Dozer would agree to hold the stakes, I would trust either of them to oversee this contest.


Lets make it happen.

[daggerkobe]

andy the wacko backpeddling like Michael Jackson.... that's exactly what I knew would happen. Big mouth, tiny balls.

Go back to losing your monthly paychecks on 3 team parlays idiot.

[losturmarbles]

You have to remember that this is the Republicans we are talking about here. Health Care Reform to the Republicans is not that big of a problem it seems like to them. They would rather see the normal people suffer while the leaders of these health insurance companies get huge bonuses and making huge profits.

care to give a credible source? (as opposed to spreading left wing rhetoric)

what's the profit margin for health insurance companies? care to guess?

[andywend]

DaggerKobe, I'm done discussing politics with you as there is no point in it.

Lets concentrate on figuring out a way to make this Matchbook contest happen.

Is $10,000 your limit?

We would need someone here at SBR to assist us and I would be willing to pay whatever fee they feel is fair to oversee things.

Are you willing to do the same?

[daggerkobe]

What part of Matchbook do you not understand, numbnuts?

[andywend]

andy the wacko backpeddling like Michael Jackson.... that's exactly what I knew would happen. Big mouth, tiny balls.

What on Earth are you talking about?

I am all set to do this and am willing to go far beyond $10,000.

We would start say January 1st and end March 31st and all bets at Matchbook would count for the contest and the winner would be the one who makes more money in strict dollar terms.

We would need some sort of neutral party to hold the funds wagered between us as well as check both our Matchbook accounts to determine the winner.

I am ready to do this and its time to back up that big mouth of yours with action.

[andywend]

care to give a credible source? (as opposed to spreading left wing rhetoric)

what's the profit margin for health insurance companies? care to guess?

Losturmarbles, trying to have a rational conversation with left-wing lunatics like DaggerKobe or TBlues is pointless.

I wish you the best of luck though.

[daggerkobe]

WTF are u talking about?

Matchbook will hold the funds and we can do an Xbet.

[losturmarbles]

Not likely unless you make over $500,000.

This reform will lower insurance premiums and prevent insurers from denying coverage and treatment. It will also reduce the National Deficit by $130 Billion.

more NON-FACTUAL statements by dk, shocking!

[andywend]

DK,
I don't wager serious money on regular pre-game betting.

99% of my betting consists of live-game wagering along with futures.

The contest I was talking about would be which one of us makes more money betting at Matchbook over say a 3 month period.

Every single wager made at Matchbook is logged and easy to retrieve.

I want to bet a fixed amount with you and would be willing to wager any amount you can afford.

You can select any time period you wish as long as its reasonable and the winner of our wager is the one who makes the most money betting at Matchbook during the time period selected.

Since neither one of us will know how the other is doing, theres no need to worry about altering bets at the end of the contest.

The only thing we would have to figure out is to find someone we both trust to hold our stakes. As I said, there are a couple of people I know right here at SBR but I'm not sure if they would be willing to participate in a betting contest between us.

[losturmarbles]

Its not a government run healthcare so you have nothing to worry about.

it will be government run. it may or may not be privately owned, but it will be government run.

privately owned, government run = fascism
government owned , government run = socialism
privately owned, privately run = not going to be an option

but at least we have choices, huh.

[DwightShrute]

it will be government run. it may or may not be privately owned, but it will be government run.

privately owned, government run = facism
government owned , government run = socialism
privately owned, privately run = not going to be an option

but at least we have choises, huh.

well said

[reno cool]

care to give a credible source? (as opposed to spreading left wing rhetoric)

what's the profit margin for health insurance companies? care to guess?

Consider the administrative costs. Think somebody here mentioned about the vacation they get from the premiums. You got accountants, lawyers, advertising, everybody taking a slice. Profit margin is mostly irrelevant. And for what? Non of it treats anybody.
A better question would be how much of the premiums go to pay for medicine? I'd guess 20% would be a high estimate.

[daggerkobe]

don't wager serious money on regular pre-game betting.

99% of my betting consists of live-game wagering along with futures.



OMFG. Are you for real?

Nevermind. You are obviously a broke loser that posts fake betting tickets to impress your female coworker at McD's and had no intention of betting with me.

[andywend]

Hello Dwight,
Someone from the republican party needs to put the democrats on record regarding this socialized health care legislation.

They need to go on the public airwaves and ask Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Barack Obama the following question:

Will you promise the American people you will NOT exempt yourselves and your families from this legislation?

Of course, these lying hypocrite bastard democrats will try and skirt around the question without answering it so its important the pressure is kept on them.

It then should be said that if this wonderful plan is good enough for American citizens, then it should be good enough for you and your family?

If enough pressure is put on these filthy bastard democrats, perhaps they might rethink what they are doing as you know they have no plans of subjecting their loved ones to the low quality medical care their plan is sure to provide.

[andywend]

DaggerKobe, as expected, you're all talk and no action.

I'm done wasting my time with you.

I'm sure you'll continue to update your betting results daily as everyone on this forum is losing sleep waiting to see how your picks have done, LOL.

Instead of posting here over 500X every month, why don't you get a job you WORTHLESS BUM!!!

[DwightShrute]

Andy,

As usual, you are right and bring a common sense logical point of view to the discussion.

Is there anywhere in your constitution that says an individual MUST purchase something or be fined by the government? I didn't think so. I guess that darn pesky 'constitution' just gets in the way.

Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama are disgraces to the United States of America.

Just the simple arrogance of Obama giving himself a B+ last week in a TV interview shows how out of touch he is with reality. Classless.

If some reporter asked Bush the same question, I bet you anything he would respectfully decline to give himself a grade even when his poles were in the high 80's.

[big0mar]

Hello Dwight, Someone from the republican party needs to put the democrats on record regarding this socialized health care legislation. They need to go on the public airwaves and ask Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Barack Obama the following question: Will you promise the American people you will NOT exempt yourselves and your families from this legislation? Of course, these lying hypocrite bastard democrats will try and skirt around the question without answering it so its important the pressure is kept on them. It then should be said that if this wonderful plan is good enough for American citizens, then it should be good enough for you and your family? If enough pressure is put on these filthy bastard democrats, perhaps they might rethink what they are doing as you know they have no plans of subjecting their loved ones to the low quality medical care their plan is sure to provide.

They aren't exempt. And the insurance plans they receive cost $15k/yr, while the tax only applies to those that are $23k/yr or higher.

[big0mar]

Whats funny is people don't mind government protecting us from crazy arabs, but somehow being protected from disease is a no-no.

[losturmarbles]

[/b]

Consider the administrative costs. Think somebody here mentioned about the vacation they get from the premiums. You got accountants, lawyers, advertising, everybody taking a slice. Profit margin is mostly irrelevant. And for what? Non of it treats anybody.
A better question would be how much of the premiums go to pay for medicine? I'd guess 20% would be a high estimate.

if profit margin is irrelevant , then why all the crying about excessive profits? that would be irrelevant also. (which it is)
20% seems really low to me with the high cost of health care, but i don't have a clue what the number is. you may be right. but that should be a criticism of the system, not the insurance company. insurance companies are in business to make money, just like any other business. and if they have to spend money to lobby congress, to meet state regulations, and have an excess of lawyers and accountants to protect them, that's not their fault. i'm sure they would much rather keep it simple and focus on selling their service to more people by offering a lower price than the competition. but wait there is little to no true competition because of government interference. there is no profit motive to lower operation costs because there is little profit to be made in selling health insurance. that is unless you can get in bed with government and control the market and bring in that 3-4% for your share holders.

the problem with our health care system is it's based on a 3rd party payer system, there are no market forces on health care prices, and insurance is not used as insurance but as a health payment plan. also health insurance policies are not owned by the individuals that use them, they are owned by their employers or the government.

[andywend]

They aren't exempt. And the insurance plans they receive cost $15k/yr, while the tax only applies to those that are $23k/yr or higher.

The citizens of the United States of America should INSIST that the democrats shoving this plan down our throats be forced to convert their $15,000/yr taxpayer funded medical insurance plan to the exact plan the rest of us are going to get through the legislation.

If the plan is anywhere near as good as the democrats claim, they should have no objection to doing this.
[COLOR=#000000 !important]

[COLOR=#000000 !important]Whats funny is people don't mind government protecting us from crazy arabs, but somehow being protected from disease is a no-no.[/COLOR]

The problem is this plan they are about to pass won't protect us anywhere near as well as the plan we currently have.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000 !important][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000 !important]For the 85-90% of Americans who currently have medical insurance, this new government plan will be a BIG STEP BACKWARDS.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000 !important][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000 !important]In order to give more to the bottom 10% who are already consuming far more than they produce, should the remaining 90% be forced to accept a huge reduction in the quality of medical care they are going to receive?[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000 !important][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000 !important]If you believe this is just, then you should support Obama's plan. If not, you should oppose it.[/COLOR]

[big0mar]

The problem with our health care system is nobody knows what they're paying for. If I'm a doctor I'm making you get 5 unnecessary tests, because it makes me more money and the patient has no clue what they need or dont need.

The whole system of employers paying for health insurance is bunk. 90% of people on this board that get insurance through their employer couldn't even say how much their plan costs per year. When people start realizing how much things cost, they might start to actually take care of their health.

[andywend]

the problem with our health care system is it's based on a 3rd party payer system,

Losturmarbles, this one line that you wrote explains the whole problem with the current medical care system and is the only fix necessary.

The problem with our health care system is nobody knows what they're paying for. If I'm a doctor I'm making you get 5 unnecessary tests, because it makes me more money and the patient has no clue what they need or dont need. The whole system of employers paying for health insurance is bunk. 90% of people on this board that get insurance through their employer couldn't even say how much their plan costs per year. When people start realizing how much things cost, they might start to actually take care of their health.

If everyone paid in cash for their own medical care, all of these problems wouldn't exist.

[big0mar]

The citizens of the United States of America should INSIST that the democrats shoving this plan down our throats be forced to convert their $15,000/yr taxpayer funded medical insurance plan to the exact plan the rest of us are going to get through the legislation. If the plan is anywhere near as good as the democrats claim, they should have no objection to doing this.

WTF are you talking about? The bill doesn't legislate any 'plan'. It creates co-ops so people on the individual market can pool together just like any large employer does.

[losturmarbles]

Whats funny is people don't mind government protecting us from crazy arabs, but somehow being protected from disease is a no-no.

what's funny is you don't mind the government stealing from one individual to give to another, and use one bad argument to justify another.

do you believe the government should take from those that have extra wealth to give to those that are in need?

[big0mar]

what's funny is you don't mind the government stealing from one individual to give to another, and use one bad argument to justifiy another. do you believe the government should take from those that have extra wealth to give to those that are in need?

Yes I do. Only thing that keeps us civilized. I would also prefer if the bums outside of my building didn't have lupus or tuberculosis, thank you.

[daggerkobe]

WTF are you talking about? The bill doesn't legislate any 'plan'. It creates co-ops so people on the individual market can pool together just like any large employer does.

andy the wacko and backpeddling weasel is the biggest MORON on the site. He slings lies like a monkey slinging feces hoping no one fact checks them. Unfortunately for him, I do. When confronted with FACTS the loser uses straw-man arguments.

Here are some examples:

When confronted with FACTS that Dumbya went golfing and a month long vacation after being warned that al Qaeda planned to hijack planes, andy the wacko claimed ACLU wouldve been upset had Dumbya done anything. Have you heard of such non-sequitur nonsense?

Just thought I'd warn you.

[Sam Odom]

If a sick cow belongs to the State I will sleep but if I own the sick cow I will not sleep and tend to her.

Loosely translated from a Russian Farmer during the Glasnost era.

[losturmarbles]

WTF are you talking about? The bill doesn't legislate any 'plan'. It creates co-ops so people on the individual market can pool together just like any large employer does.

WTF are you talking about? the only reason the senate took the public option out of their bill was that was the only way they could get it passed. the house bill that passed contains it, and the final bill with probably contain it too.

there's probably only been 30 or 40 different versions of the bill, and you start talking about the one or two that doesn't include the public option like that is the only one.

[Naughty Mommy]

Also should be a limit on babies you can produce

these dumb fuks just keep having babies with no money

its a disgrace

Give these dumb fuks 5 grand to steralize and guess what...

they'll take the money and never procreate AGAIN!!

Consider the overall savings.

Consider it an investment even.

[big0mar]

WTF are you talking about? the only reason the senate took the public option out of their bill was that was the only way they could get it passed. the house bill that passed contains it, and the final bill with probably contain it too. there's probably only been 30 or 40 different versions of the bill, and you start talking about the one or two that doesn't include the public option like that is the only one.

I got 100 betpoints that says the final bill has no public option.