[daneblazer]

2nd all time

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014...oker-bracelet/

[jjgold]

small event

if you keep entering of course you will win eventually

rarely wins once more people started playing poker because its just a crapshoot now

[manny24]

he will still never bang Gaby

no better than the rest of us

[k13]

All in mickey mouse events but yeah...

[boeing power]

Ivey is 2nd best poker player in the world.
Right behind our very own sinmiendo.

[jjgold]

no such thing as best player in world in poker

Its not a pro sport but a game of chance,,new guys constantly win and many amateurs

[boeing power]

no such thing as best player in world in poker

Its not a pro sport but a game of chance,,new guys constantly win and many amateurs

You're in the top 75 million according to my numbers, just ahead of ttwarrior.

[jjgold]

Boeingpower Ivy can play in 25 events with let's say 500 people at this table plenty of amateurs will win with him there

Ivy or any other pro would be lucky to win one time

In real pro sports amateurs don't win and in most cases are not even competitive

Poker and professional play is highly highly misused

Kids in high school with basic math skills can win poker events
It's all about the cards

If I move to Vegas and for the next 10 years enter every World Series event possible of course I'm going to win a bracelet eventually

[daneblazer]

Boeingpower Ivy can play in 25 events with let's say 500 people at this table plenty of amateurs will win with him there

Ivy or any other pro would be lucky to win one time

In real pro sports amateurs don't win and in most cases are not even competitive

Poker and professional play is highly highly misused

Kids in high school with basic math skills can win poker events
It's all about the cards

If I move to Vegas and for the next 10 years enter every World Series event possible of course I'm going to win a bracelet eventually

You would need a life times worth of run good to win one not knowing what you're doing...much less ten

[leetreaper]

Boeingpower Ivy can play in 25 events with let's say 500 people at this table plenty of amateurs will win with him there

Ivy or any other pro would be lucky to win one time

In real pro sports amateurs don't win and in most cases are not even competitive

Poker and professional play is highly highly misused

Kids in high school with basic math skills can win poker events
It's all about the cards

If I move to Vegas and for the next 10 years enter every World Series event possible of course I'm going to win a bracelet eventually

What a lost soul

[Sam Odom]

Phil Ivey > Tiger Woods

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

You're in the top 75 million according to my numbers, just ahead of ttwarrior.

[ShogunRua]

Possibly the best (LIVE) player ever. He would be even better if he wasn't so disinterested half the time. When he is on his game nobody is better. I used to love watching that 'high stakes poker' show where he would call/reraise with garbage almost like he knew what everyone's cards were.

Speaking of which, this has to go down as my favorite hand of televised poker. Ivey makes a great read, but just can't do it.

[jjgold]

Why is almost every professional poker player flat broke and homeless??

The only ones with a few dollars Are making it an advertising not gambling

If you play poker daily you will be broke you're better off killing yourself

[daneblazer]

Why is almost every professional poker player flat broke and homeless??

The only ones with a few dollars Are making it an advertising not gambling

If you play poker daily you will be broke you're better off killing yourself

Youre talking to the wrong guys

[jjgold]

Laser call me I want to save your life from poker

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Why is almost every professional poker player flat broke and homeless??

You're confused b/c of all the jabronies that call themselves 'professional poker players'... similar to certain Jersey clowns that call themselves pro sports bettors, when neither of them could find the vag on Kayden Kross with a copy of "Our bodies, Ourselves" for help.

Bona fide pros making consistent $ (to varying degrees) are out there; not surprising someone getting free internet and penny a post in compensation doesn't comprehend that.

The only ones with a few dollars Are making it an advertising not gambling

If you play poker daily you will be broke you're better off killing yourself

Meh, there are worse fates than killing yourself... like being a paid poster for ~.01 a post, for example.

[manny24]

Shogun that was well played hand

Ivey knew he had air unreal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sam Odom]

Many 'pro' players you'll never hear of... they want it that way

they will be sitting at the 20/40 limit games

[jjgold]

Sammy do you poker?

I know how high level math guys that can't win

[JeffTheShark]

Possibly the best (LIVE) player ever. He would be even better if he wasn't so disinterested half the time. When he is on his game nobody is better. I used to love watching that 'high stakes poker' show where he would call/reraise with garbage almost like he knew what everyone's cards were.

Speaking of which, this has to go down as my favorite hand of televised poker. Ivey makes a great read, but just can't do it.

That's a bad example to make your point though. He played that hand horribly. You raise on the flop or the turn. That way, you feign strength and scare the other guy from doing what he just did, or alternatively, you show strength and make it seem like you're not on a flush draw, so if you hit the draw on the river or turn, if the other guy does have a made starting hand, he won't expect a flush.

[Sam Odom]

Sammy do you poker?

Really enjoy no limit holdem - small stakes tho - Lifetime lo$er

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

That's a bad example to make your point though.

My interpretation was Sho was referring to Dwan, not Ivey.

If Sho was in fact referring to Ivey, you're right... bad example.

[brainfreeze]

It was good play, from both... Great call on Ivey .. But he should've raised after turn, that's what got him in trouble

[JeffTheShark]

My interpretation was Sho was referring to Dwan, not Ivey.

If Sho was in fact referring to Ivey, you're right... bad example.

He had to have been talking about Ivey considering the thread we're in and he doesn't mention Dwan by name.

[manny24]

i thought he meant Dwan

[ShogunRua]

That's a bad example to make your point though. He played that hand horribly. You raise on the flop or the turn. That way, you feign strength and scare the other guy from doing what he just did, or alternatively, you show strength and make it seem like you're not on a flush draw, so if you hit the draw on the river or turn, if the other guy does have a made starting hand, he won't expect a flush.

I wasn't trying to make a point by posting the video.

It was a thread about Ivey and it just made me think about this hand. It's hard to say whether he played the hand poorly or not. We have the benefit of seeing Dwan's hole cards so it's easy to say how Ivey should have played it. I understand the logic in your post, but poker isn't that black and white. We don't have full access to their hand histories/table dynamics etc. Do you raise flop or turn everytime you have a nut flush draw?

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

He had to have been talking about Ivey considering the thread we're in and he doesn't mention Dwan by name.

You're probably right, but it didn't make sense to me precisely b/c of what you say regarding the actual hand he posted. And being Dwan plays nosebleeds in Macau and flings chips w/ garbage, etc...

I don't give much credit to guys in a hand that "make the right read", but then proceed to do the wrong thing.
How any times have we seen Negreanu call the opponent's hand, announces he's beat, but calls anyway. Then wants props for identifying opponent's hand. Ah, duh.....

Yeah, kind of a default mindset out there that "Ivey's the best"... interpreted wrongly that Sho thought otherwise.

edited Addendum:

I wasn't trying to make a point by posting the video.

It appeared so... just sayin'.

[JeffTheShark]

I wasn't trying to make a point by posting the video.

It was a thread about Ivey and it just made me think about this hand. It's hard to say whether he played the hand poorly or not. We have the benefit of seeing Dwan's hole cards so it's easy to say how Ivey should have played it. I understand the logic in your post, but poker isn't that black and white. We don't have full access to their hand histories/table dynamics etc. Do you raise flop or turn everytime you have a nut flush draw?

Different way to play everything. I'll do something entirely different based on how I feel with the exact same hands.

[James D]

That's a bad example to make your point though. He played that hand horribly. You raise on the flop or the turn. That way, you feign strength and scare the other guy from doing what he just did, or alternatively, you show strength and make it seem like you're not on a flush draw, so if you hit the draw on the river or turn, if the other guy does have a made starting hand, he won't expect a flush.

Saying raise the flop or turn is easy from home. However when you breakdown the hand raising flop is not smart.

1. Phil Laak a super tight player raises from early position.
2. Gets flat called by three lose dangerous maniacs.
3. Dwan last to act preflop can see a flop cheap with perfect hand to do so but disguises hand with 25k raise. Very bold considering he has to fold if someone goes hard over the top of him. In this hand everyone knows if Laak has a monster he will push all in right after the 25k raise by dwan to scoop 40k already in pot.
4. Everyone folds but Ivey and they see a flop with 70k in pot.
5. Flop gives a Ivey a hand where 12 Cards give him the absolute nuts. It's a good flop but the problem is the three cards on flop are all ten or higher. These are cards that Dwans preflop raise absolutely implies are well within his range for this hand.
6. Dwan first to act fires 45k. There is already 70k in pot and both players are sitting with over 800k. If Ivey raises that scary flop then what does he do If dwan pushes all in? It's very possible because just calling this dwan bet makes the pot 160k already. A raise needs to be another 125k to have any chance of chasing Dwan out. If dwan doesn't fold Ivey has bloated the pot to a minimum 425k with no hand versus a tricky player and a scary flop. Also if dwan now reraises the flop all in you have to put the rest of your money in the pot calling not betting with nothing but a draw. going all in here against ANY TWO RANDOM cards in the deck and Ivey is only 54% to win! Not even considering how strong Dwan is repping here with his action so far . Ivey needs to see the turn cheap and call the 45k
7. Now turn is a complete blank a 3spades. Dwan bets 123k just a call makes the pot 410k so you need to raise like 300k or push all in on the draw with one card to go of you are going to raise.at this point Ivey is a 60% dog or worse to any pair, even pocket twos! The bet was 123k BUT THEY BOTH STILL HAVE 600k+Behind. . He can't risk 500k more in this spot the way Dwan has played the hand so far. He could be a ballsy hero and semi bluff 1/2 a million with one card to go here which would have of course won the pot. But that's not easy. Remember brad booth did the same thing to Ivey a few years back and forced Ivey to fold and Ivey had a hand that time. This time Ivey has nothing.
8. The river six gives Ivey the fourth best pair on board But dwan fires another 260k and even though pot is now almost 700k and Ivey now has a pair he can't call. Did really consider it though, that is obvious.

Ivey is is the greatest in these games and that hand was played great by both of them. I am going to dig up the booth Ivey hand from HSP in a little while.

[thechaoz]

Lol small? He won millions off of prop bets. 400 of the best mixed games players in the world. Don't think you play poker JJ.

Even if you are way better than every single person it's soon tough to win, tons of variance

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

that hand was played great by both of them.

While I appreciate your analysis, James, and much sense is contained within -- in actuality -- all Ivey is doing in this hand is chasing the nuts. Which is fine, but he doesn't think he has the best hand while calling, as evidenced by not calling the riv bet (ultimately).

IMO, Dwan is the only one that played the hand great; for Ivey to have played it great, he would have had to do something along the lines of what Jeff was saying; or simply, ultimately figure out Dwan there... call & win. Which made that particular posted hand seem incongruous if trying to illustrate how great Ivey is (Sho says it wasn't to make a point, fine, accepted. But it could be interpreted as coming across as such... especially when using the phrasing "speaking of which")

We can all agree Ivey is an indisputably great player while disagreeing on how "great" he played this hand.

I am going to dig up the booth Ivey hand from HSP in a little while.

Yeah, a classic one for the ages. Not that analogous to this hand tho, IMHO, for a few reasons.

[JeffTheShark]

While I appreciate your analysis, James, and much sense is contained within -- in actuality -- all Ivey is doing in this hand is chasing the nuts. Which is fine, but he doesn't think he has the best hand while calling, as evidenced by not calling the riv bet (ultimately).

IMO, Dwan is the only one that played the hand great; for Ivey to have played it great, he would have had to do something along the lines of what Jeff was saying; or simply, ultimately figure out Dwan there... call & win. Which made that particular posted hand seem incongruous if trying to illustrate how great Ivey is (Sho says it wasn't to make a point, fine, accepted. But it could be interpreted as coming across as such... especially when using the phrasing "speaking of which")

We can all agree Ivey is an indisputably great player while disagreeing on how "great" he played this hand.




Yeah, a classic one for the ages. Not that analogous to this hand tho, IMHO, for a few reasons.

Yeah... I mean, I would not be dumb enough to argue that Ivey was not a great poker player. He obviously is. But you're giving way too much credit to Ivey there if you call it a great play. It would have been a mirror image play of a complete donk. They would have played the hand identically, except the donk would have folded on the river faster.

[konck]

small event

if you keep entering of course you will win eventually

rarely wins once more people started playing poker because its just a crapshoot now

Yea your right JJ its so ez

[eidolon]

John Hennigan winning Event #46: The Poker Players Championship is more impressive. Why? because he came in 12th two years ago, and 3rd last year.