[Hareeba!]

given you are such a big shot and knowledge on all sports and horse racing.

why dont you just book yourself and do everything on betfair which DOES do all horse racing and most sports?

All i ever see you do is complain, why dont you just frame the markets yourself, and just make possibly a smaller but more sustainable long term profit?

be the book instead of trying to beat them?

Presumably you are talking to me RedDevil?

I don't claim to be a big shot by any stretch of imagination.

And I don't have knowledge on all sports and racing.

What I do know from experience of having dealt with most of them is how bookmakers (and those pretending to be) treat people.

When someone asks the question such as in this thread I pass on the knowledge gained from those experiences.

Betfair is great but not the be and end all.

If you were at all familiar with the way betting exchanges, including Betfair work you really wouldn't ask that question.

I do to a large extent work with framed prices but liquidity is very light on until near event time, particularly with Australian horse racing.

By the time the liquidity has built up, the best odds are frequently long gone. With some horses where I believe the early market is offering overs, one has to be able to place bets earlier at fixed odds. That's where the bookies come into play.

The likes of Ladbrokes and Bet365 do offer excellent fixed odds and products to their mug clients. All I ask is that they not be permitted to discriminate against punters. Bookmakers operating on racecourses are obliged to accept business from all comers up to stipulated limits. That's fair and should be extended to online bookies also.

[RedDevil1974]

i know how betfair works, i traded there more than successfully enough for a few years for a small second tax free income before they shut me down (multiple accounts to get around the pc).

And if you are clever enough then it really can be the be all and end all, you can have guaranteed profit if you make the market yourself.

Thats my point, where as you would be trying to back best odds.. work it out properly so you dont have to back any winners.. and that all are winners for you.. albeit at a small and slower rate but long term much better.

i cant be arsed to type out a real long email about it but i think you know what i mean.

[Hareeba!]

i know how betfair works, i traded there more than successfully enough for a few years for a small second tax free income before they shut me down (multiple accounts to get around the pc).

And if you are clever enough then it really can be the be all and end all, you can have guaranteed profit if you make the market yourself.

Thats my point, where as you would be trying to back best odds.. work it out properly so you dont have to back any winners.. and that all are winners for you.. albeit at a small and slower rate but long term much better.

i cant be arsed to type out a real long email about it but i think you know what i mean.

Punters all have different styles and you were obviously a trader and layer. I'm not. I work on finding the best bets for the day and want to get on them at the best odds possible. That works very well for me. I don't want to have to spend the whole day concentrating on trading race after race.

[onemoregoal]

I think you know what you are gonna get when you open an account with ladbrokes online. It isnt a place for a professional gambler - if, like Pinnacle they promoted themselves as a place "for winners" - then your point would be valid.

When books first started, 100 years ago or whatever - I doubt they thought "lets open a book, so sharps can make a living from us.........."

If you are being limited after the first bet, on horses - then it could be something to do with your ID, past experiences with other books - maybe you are on a blacklist......