1. #71
    James D
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeLc View Post
    I have been in various aspects from hotwalker to owner.

    I have very little faith that the powers that be will right the ship
    This is an industry where everyone is out to grab what they can while they can with little regard to tomorrow.
    I could tell very early in our discourse that you have been involved in many aspect of the industry. I hope you are wrong about the future of the industry. I think everyone in this thread agrees the biggest problem for horse racing is the demographic. We need new young blood and are not getting enough of it. I have done many types of gambling and there is nothing more exciting then the horses. The problem is from a gambling perspective horse racing is so tough to not just beat but just to avoid getting smashed. Every other type of gambling I do I enter the arena with a hope and viable expectation of winning. Of course I know I can lose, but when I play poker, table games, video poker, sports, I always feel I have a very realistic shot. Of course I lose as often as I win but both options are very possible. When I go to the track for a day or weekend I always have a good time and am happy when I head back home if I don't get absolutely assaulted at the windows If I win anything significant on a typical day at the track I am truly shocked. I look at horseracing almost like entertainment I pay to enjoy when other forms of gambling are entertainment where it's 50-50 I win or lose. Between the complex nature of handicapping and the extremely high track takeout new blood very often has a very difficult time and gets discouraged and quits playing quickly.

    I'm editing my post to add a comment to the previous poster. Very good and entertaining read bigdaddy. You are right that winning is not the reason the new blood stays in the game, that's a major reason the amount of hard core fans diminishes. Many people do not have your or my perspective. Thanks for joining the discussion
    Last edited by James D; 02-19-14 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Bigdaddy

  2. #72
    JakeLc
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    It's a slow game with a high takeout and the perception, accurate or not, is that it is rigged.
    Those are tough hurdles to overcome and I don't think they are going to be overcome anytime soon if at all.
    There are other options out there, why would someone want to play this game?

  3. #73
    cutchemist42
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    I think you somehow gotta engage the same young people sitting at their computer doing fantasy baseball/football/poker/. I'm 28 and just got in the game this year to the point where my fantasy hockey team is suffering, my handicapping time mostly replaced my team management. I've given poker about 5 different tries, delving into reading books and theories, but the gring just isn't as fun. I see it alot like seeing a hockey game live, lots of people appreciate it more if you can get them to try it once.

    That one article linked led to another one too, which brought up a good point. The repuation of horse racing is not the same as poker. 20% only have a favourable view on horse racing, with lots not proud to say they are a horse racing fan. I don't think other betting sports have this perception problem as much.

    As a baseball fan, alot of sports are sharing the game fate which personaly saddens me.
    Last edited by cutchemist42; 02-19-14 at 07:02 PM.

  4. #74
    Slimpickens
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeLc View Post
    It's a slow game with a high takeout and the perception, accurate or not, is that it is rigged.
    Those are tough hurdles to overcome and I don't think they are going to be overcome anytime soon if at all.
    There are other options out there, why would someone want to play this game?

    2 questions. What do you mean by "it's a slow game"??

    I could also ask why would someone not want to play this game? Where else can you get burried for about 25 races and then hit 1 race and be up money.

  5. #75
    JakeLc
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    Half hour between races makes it a slow game.

  6. #76
    Roadtrip635
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeLc View Post
    It's a slow game with a high takeout and the perception, accurate or not, is that it is rigged.
    Those are tough hurdles to overcome and I don't think they are going to be overcome anytime soon if at all.
    There are other options out there, why would someone want to play this game?
    I think for some it's that mirage of a huge score for only a couple bucks. Every single day there are at least a couple 20+ to 1 winners somewhere and you see those huge payouts especially for Trifectas, Supers and Pick 6's. Even if you win only 1 out of 10 bets, you can have a very profitable day/week/month if you win the right bet. That's the initial lure, big payoff for little money risked, that's why people want to play. How many times have you said "A $2 tri paid how much?! Holy Sh!t"

  7. #77
    jim
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    seems to me horse racing was doing fine until state lotteries became popular. the dream of the big score started to draw players and money away from the horses and bingos and the like and they never recovered, been in a major tailspin since, to pick a year, 1976.

  8. #78
    Mitchell88
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    I want to bet a race today. Someone that has any ideas on a bet that I should try for my first one ever, post it please. This thread has me pretty close to understanding it. It seems like it will be exciting

  9. #79
    jjgold
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    The young generation has no interest in horses

    There will be only a few tracks left in 10 years from now

    The only real horseracing is in Australia and it's the most legit

    You can also shop and get better prices from book to book

    It's not even remotely comparable to USA racing

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  10. #80
    trytrytry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell88 View Post
    I want to bet a race today. Someone that has any ideas on a bet that I should try for my first one ever, post it please. This thread has me pretty close to understanding it. It seems like it will be exciting
    stay far far away form this passion..seriously if its not in your blood dont plunge in!


    with that said

    gulfstream

    Gulfstream R4
    WIN on 4

    Gulfstream R8
    WIN on 2





    Gulfstream R9



    • WIN on 4




    or use in some doubles, or pick 3s

  11. #81
    jjgold
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    It's crack cocaine Mitchum

    Once you start your in trouble

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  12. #82
    oldmanTED
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    Can not deny the negative posts on this dyeing sport, but one thing that people ,posters do not know realize
    is that the 1%ers in the horse gambling world are 10X's more dangerous to the offshores then the 1% successful sports gamblers.

    If you are in the "in" and the information kicks ass you can make more money then the Billy Walters of the world.
    Make no mistake about it.
    Why do you think Pinny stopped taking horses or better yet ask the Sacco's, Austin's or Skip they'll tell you who they fear more. Information is the key not handicapping.

  13. #83
    grekos
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    [QUOTE=oldmanTED;21199900]Can not deny the negative posts on this dyeing sport, but one thing that people ,posters do not know realize
    is that the 1%ers in the horse gambling world are 10X's more dangerous to the offshores then the 1% successful sports gamblers.

    If you are in the "in" and the information kicks ass you can make more money then the Billy Walters of the world.
    Make no mistake about it.
    Why do you think Pinny stopped taking horses or better yet ask the Sacco's, Austin's or Skip they'll tell you who they fear more. Information is the key not handicapping.[/QUOT

    Ted you hit it on the head,then you got STR bragging about his1 million useless post's.It's all about who you know not what you know.

  14. #84
    davidchong
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldmanTED View Post
    Can not deny the negative posts on this dyeing sport, but one thing that people ,posters do not know realize
    is that the 1%ers in the horse gambling world are 10X's more dangerous to the offshores then the 1% successful sports gamblers.

    If you are in the "in" and the information kicks ass you can make more money then the Billy Walters of the world.
    Make no mistake about it.
    Why do you think Pinny stopped taking horses or better yet ask the Sacco's, Austin's or Skip they'll tell you who they fear more. Information is the key not handicapping.

    Its not 10's, its 100x's

  15. #85
    Mitchell88
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    It's crack cocaine Mitchum

    Once you start your in trouble
    as long as its not Heroin im in the clear if you catch my drift

  16. #86
    jjgold
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    Tons books take horse action offshore

    Try Bookmaker if you get hot tips..they pay and good limits

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  17. #87
    BigdaddyQH
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    My wife plays all of the kids and grandkids names. Out of about 100 horses, there are 3 or 4 that are pretty good. She is the type of person who goes to the races, wagers on a name, or the longest shot on the board, and just watches to see if she won or lost her $2.00. She is so far ahead she probably will never fall behind. She hits these $60-80 Dollar winners about once every 12-18 races. Luck.

    For you folks who say that you have to wait 25 minutes for a result, what about baseball or football where you can wait hours for a result. Is there anything more boring than baseball? You can run a race in the time it takes for a pitcher to throw one pitch. You can also wager on more than one track. I like keeping my selections to 2 or 3 tracks. Any more makes things too confusing.
    Last edited by BigdaddyQH; 02-20-14 at 05:24 PM.

  18. #88
    James D
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    Still running insane.



    Only ticket I bought. Cost me under 200 and I won 6000. Jackpot wasn't hit so going after it again tomorrow if I have the time. I had the last race wheeled so if a long shot came in I would have won 60k not 6k. But can't complain, won a couple real close races. Carryover is over a million tomorrow.

  19. #89
    grekos
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    Tons books take horse action offshore

    Try Bookmaker if you get hot tips..they pay and good limits
    Can't you read JJ.If you're getting good inside info they cut you off or limit you.

  20. #90
    BigdaddyQH
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    Wager on TVG or HRTV and you can wager as much as the track will accept, which is more than any one in here has. Why wager with a book, when you can do it leagally with those two operations.

  21. #91
    James D
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigdaddyQH View Post
    Wager on TVG or HRTV and you can wager as much as the track will accept, which is more than any one in here has. Why wager with a book, when you can do it leagally with those two operations.
    Tvg, which is legal in the US also gives you bonuses when you sign up and rebates dependent on your play. Really no reason to bet illegally off shore when you get track odds at tvg

  22. #92
    jjgold
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    Yes but pop them hard until you get cut off

    Bookmaker pays

    Quote Originally Posted by grekos View Post
    Can't you read JJ.If you're getting good inside info they cut you off or limit you.

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  23. #93
    oldmanTED
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    Quote Originally Posted by grekos View Post
    Can't you read JJ.If you're getting good inside info they cut you off or limit you.
    Exactly. Dave in the horse dept. will cut you down faster then any sports book I know of.

  24. #94
    balls2wall
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    Quote Originally Posted by James D View Post
    Still running insane.



    Only ticket I bought. Cost me under 200 and I won 6000. Jackpot wasn't hit so going after it again tomorrow if I have the time. I had the last race wheeled so if a long shot came in I would have won 60k not 6k. But can't complain, won a couple real close races. Carryover is over a million tomorrow.


    Nice hit!! I thought it may have been a little higher. I think it paid 88k a few days ago.

    Keep taking shots until someone hits it

  25. #95
    jjgold
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    Nice hit James

    Where the heck is Ocean>

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  26. #96
    Mitchell88
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    someone explain how its a million carryover??

  27. #97
    James D
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    Hey guys,

    Oceans is in I believe Oceanside, it's on the way to San Diego, a little over an hour from Los Angeles. They have a nice little bar, food, seating area, and the none of the scummy horse players you see at many places. JJ referenced those types before and he is 100% correct. Not sure if it's the 10 dollar cover or the location but it's a good group of people there so I enjoy going there sometimes. The reason there is a carryover is because the people at gulfstream are geniuses. The rainbow pick six has several key differences from the typical pick six. The main ones are it cost 20 cents not 2 dollars so a person can make ten time the combinations for the same price. The second, and here is the genius aspect of it, is they only pay the main pool when there is a single winner. So if you have the single ticket you take it all. That is why I only make one ticket, god forbid you overlap a few combinations on tickets you could literally cost yourself the million by winning twice! You can make multiple tickets if you pay attention and time permitting I will today but I have some work to do so I probably will not have enough time to spend hours handicapping. Today If I play it will probably have to be hollywood park or santa Anita where I just walk in and buy a ticket, no time to make the hour drive and play today.

  28. #98
    Mitchell88
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    ohhh I see that's why the carryover is because of the single ticket part. Thanks James

  29. #99
    balls2wall
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell88 View Post
    someone explain how its a million carryover??

    The only way the whole thing pays out is if only a single ticket hits. If multiple people hit then a percentage goes towards that days payout and the rest (larger %) is put back into the carryover.

    When it is hit 1 person will take the whole thing!!! cha ching

  30. #100
    balls2wall
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    doh, James beat me to it while I was typing

    and did a MUCH better job of explaining

  31. #101
    Mitchell88
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    that's such low odds to hit but if you do, nice

  32. #102
    James D
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    Its brillaint isn't it balls2thewalls? Gulfstream came up with a great new wager




    Quote Originally Posted by oldmanTED View Post
    Can not deny the negative posts on this dyeing sport, but one thing that people ,posters do not know realize
    is that the 1%ers in the horse gambling world are 10X's more dangerous to the offshores then the 1% successful sports gamblers.

    If you are in the "in" and the information kicks ass you can make more then Billy Walters
    Make no mistake about it.
    Why do you think Pinny stopped taking horses or better yet ask the Sacco's, Austin's or Skip they'll tell you who they fear more. Information is the key not handicapping.

    This is is a great post, I was not around yesterday so I didn't see it. When people ask me why racing is the toughest form of gambling I explain it this way. The track take out is about 20% per wager and on typical race days ( not TC, BC, etc etc ) the inside info edge is another 10%. So imagine if in sports betting every hundred you bet won you 70 on a straight bet, not 91.09 which you do with -110 juice. The inside info is rarely cheating it is jaunt very simply the trainers, clockers, owners, and their friends who know which horses are training well and equally important which ones are not.

    Although the BW part may be exaggerated. I still think he is an outlier.

  33. #103
    James D
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    Mitchell 88 Well you have to play a ton of combinations, my ticket yesterday was really small because i was busy during the day. A ticket can be far larger. Also remember the 6k won was on a 20cent bet, so it would be similar to a 60k win on a two dollar wager

  34. #104
    trytrytry
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    Quote Originally Posted by balls2wall View Post
    The only way the whole thing pays out is if only a single ticket hits. If multiple people hit then a percentage goes towards that days payout and the rest (larger %) is put back into the carryover.

    When it is hit 1 person will take the whole thing!!! cha ching
    wiht a forced payout the final day of the meet so if it never gets hit but a single person it could be tens of millions by the end of the meet, not likley but not impossible.. then it has to be paid out and split to all hitting it.

  35. #105
    Mitchell88
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    Quote Originally Posted by James D View Post
    Mitchell 88 Well you have to play a ton of combinations, my ticket yesterday was really small because i was busy during the day. A ticket can be far larger. Also remember the 6k won was on a 20cent bet, so it would be similar to a 60k win on a two dollar wager
    so when you are playing all the combos you just have to make sure that you don't overlap to hit the big one?

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