1. #351
    pavyracer
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkelly110 View Post
    This thread, I would say is about the same as a climate change thread.

    Scientists disagree with one another and economists disagree with one another, but why an average person
    would argue with raising the minimum wage, is beyond me.
    The average person who opposes raising the minimum wage gets their news from Fox News, Drudge report and Rush Limbaugh.
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  2. #352
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    The average person who opposes raising the minimum wage gets their news from Fox News, Drudge report and Rush Limbaugh.
    Do you even know what the Drudge Report is?
    No, you don't.
    The Drudge report is a news aggregator (or an aggregation website)
    Simply put, it's a website that links the majority of mainstream media news stories on a page.
    Most, of the links come from Reuters, UPI, AP, etc. you know mainstream media.
    There is nothing biased about the Drudge Report, the Drudge Report just takes most of the news stories out there, and puts it on one page making it easy for a user to get to a lot more stories than going through six newspapers, and four news TV channels.

    This is the problem with the democrats/liberals and the Drudge Report.
    Matt Drudge broke the Monica Lewinsky story.
    Drudge did not have it first, Matt, ABC, and the NY Times had that story on the same day.
    NY Times and ABC News decided not to break the story because of the damage it may do to their rock star President Bill Clinton, they decided to sit on it and sweep it under the rug as if it never happened, Matt broke the story, democrats got pissed. That is why the dems hate Drudge.

    Matt Drudge is not even republican or conservative.
    Matt Drudge is the only man sued (epic failure by the way) by the White House for breaking that story.
    Clinton's people got laughed out of court for even bringing up that law suit.

    Now, those opposed to raising the minimum wage are not racist, they are realists, they know that raising the wage 3 dollars an hour more will hurt the economy, and cost jobs, over 500 thousand jobs in the long run, those opposed understand economics and business.

    Those who want to raise the minimum wage to over 10 dollars an hour and think it would benefit all is ignorant in businesss, economics, live in a fantasy world.

    One last time simpleton.

    Follow along, this is what the liberal professors taught me in college, you never took ecomonics or business, it's obvious you did not.
    If you raise the small business owners unit labor cost you get lower procuctivity.
    An owners unit labor cost equals the total wages and benefits the owner paid during a period of time divided by the number of units of output you produced in that period.

    Example:
    Harry's Hat Company pay employee benefits and salary to it's worker a total of 10000 dollars a month.
    Harry's Hat Company produces 5000 hats a month.
    Harry's Hat Company unit labor cost is 2 dollars a hat. (10000 dollars labor costs divided 5000 units equals 2 dollars a hat)

    Are you with me so far? Are you keeping up? It's not rocket science.

    An increase in your small business’ unit labor cost means your productivity is decreasing. Productivity is the efficiency with which you generate output using certain inputs. The increase in unit labor cost may result in higher expenses compared to revenue. Unless you decrease other expenses or increase your selling prices to increase your revenue, your profit will decrease.

    Now, to offset that, one of two things must happen or go broke.
    Raise the cost of hats, or layoff wokers, that is what has to be done to compensate.

    How is that good all around.?

    Now, show me where I am wrong,
    Prove me where I am wrong, show me.
    I have at my finger tips studies and analysis from independants that show me I am right.


  3. #353
    Thor4140
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    This is how the typical brainwashed middle class asshat who is a corporate whore and thinks someday he will be making billions gets conned about the corporate tax rate. This greedy fuking company skims so much and gives so little that they are so fuking greedy that they will even move to a different town to avoid paying a decent wage. Yet these brainwashed nitwits feel we need to bring that corporate rate down like these thieves are actually paying it. Pathetic really

    Boeing Paid No Federal Income Tax Last Year: Analysis

    The Huffington Post | by Jillian Berman




    Posted: Updated:
    Print Article

    MORE:

    BoeingBoeing Income TaxBoeing 777Boeing TaxesBoeing TaxBoeing Tax BreaksBoeing Tax StudyCorporate Tax BreaksTax BreaksCorporate TaxesBusiness News
    One of the largest recipients of federal government contracts paid nothing in taxes last year, according to an analysis from the Center for Effective Government, a left-leaning think tank.
    Boeing reported an $82 million tax refund last year, but made $5.9 billion in U.S. pre-tax profits during the same period, the analysis of the company’s recent government filings found. That means Boeing paid a federal tax rate of -1.4 percent. At the same time, the company won 4.4 percent of all federal contracts last year, according to the report.
    "Companies that live by the taxpayer purse should be contributing to the welfare of the states and paying their taxes," said Scott Klinger, the author of the report. "The fact that we have major federal contractors that are consistently not doing that should raise questions for our legislators about how this could be."
    The company has a history of using loopholes to lower its tax bill, according to Matt Gardner, the executive director of the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. The report found that Boeing paid a tax rate of -0.4 percent over the past five years.
    “The fact that Boeing paid no income tax this year is not at all surprising because they have a very reliable track record of paying little or nothing in federal and income state tax,” Gardner said.
    Boeing disputes the report’s findings, saying its federal tax rate was actually 26.4 percent last year. Chaz Bickers, a Boeing spokesman, said the analysis ignores a crucial part of the company's tax expense. When the Boeing decides to embark on building a new aircraft, its taxes are deferred to encourage investment that could take decades to materialize a profit. But once they actually deliver the aircraft, those deferred taxes turn into current ones.
    “Our current tax expense has been reduced somewhat in recent years by the very large investment we have made in American jobs, production facilities and research and development for our new airplanes -- they are taxes that largely are deferred until we begin to deliver our new airplanes (and get the revenue back from our investment) in high volume at steady rates,” Bickers wrote in an email to The Huffington Post.
    The chart below from Boeing's 10-K filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission shows the company's deferred and current tax expenses. The -82 under "Current tax expense" is what the company paid in federal taxes this year, while other taxes are listed as "deferred." Both are considered part of the company's total tax expense:

    While it’s true that the Center for Effective Government analysis doesn’t include Boeing’s deferred taxes, Gardner characterized them differently. “Deferral technically means that you’re postponing tax, that this tax will be paid some day,” he said. “They are essentially shifting taxes forward indefinitely.”
    Boeing’s not alone in using corporate tax breaks to its advantage, and Gardner noted that they're doing nothing that's illegal in any way. In fact, Boeing is not known for engaging in some of the more notorious “creative accounting” practices, like moving profits offshore to avoid paying U.S. taxes on them.
    “We know that an awful lot of Fortune 500 corporations have found ways to zero out their taxes in a lot of years,” Gardner said. “[Boeing is] doing what the tax law allows them to do. At the same time, we know that other companies are being inventive -- they’re creating their own tax breaks.”
    Still, the company’s sheer scale has allowed it to score some major tax concessions. Washington state gave Boeing what is believed to be the biggest state tax break in U.S. history. Lawmakers voted last year to give the company $8.7 billion in tax breaks through 2040 in an effort to convince Boeing to locate a new, large manufacturing plant in the state.
    The company insisted on more, though, threatening to pull production from the Seattle area and possibly move it to a less union-friendly state if the machinist union didn’t agree to major concessions. Ultimately, the promise of jobs won out. The union voted by a narrow margin to approve an eight-year contract extension that included a pension freeze. The company conceded some too, scaling back some of its initial proposals to slow workers’ pay increases.
    Boeing announced earlier this week that it would build the plant that will make wings for the 777x, a new plane, in Washington.


  4. #354
    rkelly110
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    Wow, free economic lessons. Thanks Nash. Now, give us a long lengthy example of how a person can live
    on the minimum wage at it's current rate. Don't forget to add in housing costs, food, health and car insurance.
    While putting clothes on his ass. Then give us an example of his old lady working minimum wage and maybe
    have a couple of kids.

    IDK where you guys go, but it sure as hell isn't in the real world. Yeah, minimum wage is a stepping stone,
    but a stepping stone to what? Ever look at a help wanted section lately? Nope, just zipper sniff the businessman.

    Business will be business. They will take care of themselves, believe me. They don't need your help defending
    them.

    Notice your local strip malls? Notice the lack of businesses in there? Now, instead of bailing out banks and mortgage
    companies who didn't need it in the 1st place, what if the govt invested that money into it's people? 100k for people
    who had business plans. Yes, 95% of businesses fail within 5 years, but that 5% might've been the next Microsoft.

  5. #355
    stevenash
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    ^
    It's official, you are a liar and an idiot
    Do you make shit up ass you go along?
    I think you do.

    a) your beef is with the State of Washington, not with Boeing.

    b) Boeing actually pays a pretty good wage.
    I got the charts in front of me

    Software Engineer low end spectrum 51K - high end spectrum - 131 K
    Average Software Engineer pay at Boeing - 84.6K

    Pretty much like that at every level.

    Average intern gets a little over 21 dollars an hour.

    They take care of their employees.
    Benefits are off the charts according to the labor web sites.

    Boeing Awards & Accolades
    Something missing? Add an award


    2012
    America's Top Corporations for Multicultural Business Opportunities, DiversityBusiness.com, 2012
    National Top 50 Green Companies, Green Power Partnership, 2012
    Best Places to Work for Commuters, National Center for Transit Research at USF, 2012
    No. 2 among the top companies in the United States for which they would most prefer to work, Woman Engineer Magazine, 2012
    No. 4 among companies in the United States for which they would most like to work, Minority Engineer, 2012
    Top employer in the United States, Workforce Diversity for Engineering & IT Professionals, 2012
    Best Diversity Company, Diversity/Careers in Engineering & Information Technology, 2012
    No. 4 among the top companies in the United States for providing a progressive environment for people with physical or mental impairments, Careers and the disABLED Magazine, 2012


  6. #356
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkelly110 View Post
    Wow, free economic lessons. Thanks Nash. Now, give us a long lengthy example of how a person can live
    on the minimum wage at it's current rate. Don't forget to add in housing costs, food, health and car insurance.
    While putting clothes on his ass. Then give us an example of his old lady working minimum wage and maybe
    have a couple of kids.

    IDK where you guys go, but it sure as hell isn't in the real world. Yeah, minimum wage is a stepping stone,
    but a stepping stone to what? Ever look at a help wanted section lately? Nope, just zipper sniff the businessman.

    Business will be business. They will take care of themselves, believe me. They don't need your help defending
    them.

    Notice your local strip malls? Notice the lack of businesses in there? Now, instead of bailing out banks and mortgage
    companies who didn't need it in the 1st place, what if the govt invested that money into it's people? 100k for people
    who had business plans. Yes, 95% of businesses fail within 5 years, but that 5% might've been the next Microsoft.
    Raise the minimum wage to 10.10, say buh bye to 500 to 600 thousand jobs.
    Yeah, winning solutuion.
    How's this for an idea.
    Take a minimum job as a stepping stone to a career, as opposed to making a career out of a minimum waged job.

  7. #357
    k13
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    Steve how did ontario/canada raise min. wage from $7 to $10 and unemployment actually went down.....nothing really changed.

    Now going to $11. No one really worried.
    Great to talk about in theory but in reality it won't change much.

  8. #358
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by k13 View Post
    Steve how did ontario/canada raise min. wage from $7 to $10 and unemployment actually went down.....nothing really changed.

    Now going to $11. No one really worried.
    Great to talk about in theory but in reality it won't change much.
    Tomorrow, got to go now, I will show you what happened to Pa and NJ when NJ went up and Pa. stayed the same
    Results will open your eyes.

  9. #359
    ThaTopMoron
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    Raising the min wage won't do anything to hurt jobs but maybe a tiny bit (but could be a positive effect too)... nothing different then the bullshit that was in the ACA that is now currently affecting small businesses around the country, forcing them to run business differently to avoid bs penalties from bs mandates; which in turn affects their employees income due to reduced hours; which in turn hurts the economy in the end.

    Oh, but you're worried about raises to min wage which should be updated regularly anyways.

  10. #360
    Thor4140
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    Tomorrow, got to go now, I will show you what happened to Pa and NJ when NJ went up and Pa. stayed the same
    Results will open your eyes.
    You are so over-matched in this discussion it is comical. You are nothing but a jock sniffer water boy for corporate American that doesn't give two diks about ya and laugh behind ur back. Those states were hit with the bad economies no wonder jobs went down. You know the economy the neocons gave us with a shit trillion dollar worthless war while given out tax breaks at the same time. Talk about a great economic plan. Drop tax rates and create a war for ur buddies to profit. Failure every time. Throw in a billion dollar bullshit prescription plan and its amazing we are not all dead. What is ur problem with others making a few dollars? Are u afraid these people might buy something u want because they are right on the doorstep of ur wage?
    Last edited by Thor4140; 02-20-14 at 09:35 PM.

  11. #361
    Andy117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor4140 View Post
    This is how the typical brainwashed middle class asshat who is a corporate whore and thinks someday he will be making billions gets conned about the corporate tax rate. This greedy fuking company skims so much and gives so little that they are so fuking greedy that they will even move to a different town to avoid paying a decent wage. Yet these brainwashed nitwits feel we need to bring that corporate rate down like these thieves are actually paying it. Pathetic really

    Boeing Paid No Federal Income Tax Last Year: Analysis

    The Huffington Post | by Jillian Berman




    Posted: Updated:
    Print Article

    MORE:

    BoeingBoeing Income TaxBoeing 777Boeing TaxesBoeing TaxBoeing Tax BreaksBoeing Tax StudyCorporate Tax BreaksTax BreaksCorporate TaxesBusiness News
    One of the largest recipients of federal government contracts paid nothing in taxes last year, according to an analysis from the Center for Effective Government, a left-leaning think tank.
    Boeing reported an $82 million tax refund last year, but made $5.9 billion in U.S. pre-tax profits during the same period, the analysis of the company’s recent government filings found. That means Boeing paid a federal tax rate of -1.4 percent. At the same time, the company won 4.4 percent of all federal contracts last year, according to the report.
    "Companies that live by the taxpayer purse should be contributing to the welfare of the states and paying their taxes," said Scott Klinger, the author of the report. "The fact that we have major federal contractors that are consistently not doing that should raise questions for our legislators about how this could be."
    The company has a history of using loopholes to lower its tax bill, according to Matt Gardner, the executive director of the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. The report found that Boeing paid a tax rate of -0.4 percent over the past five years.
    “The fact that Boeing paid no income tax this year is not at all surprising because they have a very reliable track record of paying little or nothing in federal and income state tax,” Gardner said.
    Boeing disputes the report’s findings, saying its federal tax rate was actually 26.4 percent last year. Chaz Bickers, a Boeing spokesman, said the analysis ignores a crucial part of the company's tax expense. When the Boeing decides to embark on building a new aircraft, its taxes are deferred to encourage investment that could take decades to materialize a profit. But once they actually deliver the aircraft, those deferred taxes turn into current ones.
    “Our current tax expense has been reduced somewhat in recent years by the very large investment we have made in American jobs, production facilities and research and development for our new airplanes -- they are taxes that largely are deferred until we begin to deliver our new airplanes (and get the revenue back from our investment) in high volume at steady rates,” Bickers wrote in an email to The Huffington Post.
    The chart below from Boeing's 10-K filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission shows the company's deferred and current tax expenses. The -82 under "Current tax expense" is what the company paid in federal taxes this year, while other taxes are listed as "deferred." Both are considered part of the company's total tax expense:

    While it’s true that the Center for Effective Government analysis doesn’t include Boeing’s deferred taxes, Gardner characterized them differently. “Deferral technically means that you’re postponing tax, that this tax will be paid some day,” he said. “They are essentially shifting taxes forward indefinitely.”
    Boeing’s not alone in using corporate tax breaks to its advantage, and Gardner noted that they're doing nothing that's illegal in any way. In fact, Boeing is not known for engaging in some of the more notorious “creative accounting” practices, like moving profits offshore to avoid paying U.S. taxes on them.
    “We know that an awful lot of Fortune 500 corporations have found ways to zero out their taxes in a lot of years,” Gardner said. “[Boeing is] doing what the tax law allows them to do. At the same time, we know that other companies are being inventive -- they’re creating their own tax breaks.”
    Still, the company’s sheer scale has allowed it to score some major tax concessions. Washington state gave Boeing what is believed to be the biggest state tax break in U.S. history. Lawmakers voted last year to give the company $8.7 billion in tax breaks through 2040 in an effort to convince Boeing to locate a new, large manufacturing plant in the state.
    The company insisted on more, though, threatening to pull production from the Seattle area and possibly move it to a less union-friendly state if the machinist union didn’t agree to major concessions. Ultimately, the promise of jobs won out. The union voted by a narrow margin to approve an eight-year contract extension that included a pension freeze. The company conceded some too, scaling back some of its initial proposals to slow workers’ pay increases.
    Boeing announced earlier this week that it would build the plant that will make wings for the 777x, a new plane, in Washington.

    In a conversation about minimum wage, why is Boeing relevant? How many employees do they have making the minumum?
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  12. #362
    Sdotbold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy117 View Post
    In a conversation about minimum wage, why is Boeing relevant? How many employees do they have making the minumum?
    not one

  13. #363
    Thor4140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy117 View Post
    In a conversation about minimum wage, why is Boeing relevant? How many employees do they have making the minumum?
    because it is showing ya that no matter how much some of these greedy corporation make they still cry foul about taxes and even when they don't pay shit they threaten workers with moving the plant because they somehow want a little piece of the pie. there is just never enuf for some of these greedy assholes. U could give them a corporate tax rate of 0 and they would just go to the next thing they want to make money with and that is their employees. It never ends. Money isn't the root of all evil it is greedy assholes with money that is the root of all evil.

  14. #364
    KingJD31
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    Thor you're poor, we get it

  15. #365
    Andy117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor4140 View Post
    because it is showing ya that no matter how much some of these greedy corporation make they still cry foul about taxes and even when they don't pay shit they threaten workers with moving the plant because they somehow want a little piece of the pie. there is just never enuf for some of these greedy assholes. U could give them a corporate tax rate of 0 and they would just go to the next thing they want to make money with and that is their employees. It never ends. Money isn't the root of all evil it is greedy assholes with money that is the root of all evil.
    It's not a relevant part of this argument at all.
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  16. #366
    Thor4140
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJD31 View Post
    Thor you're poor, we get it
    anytime u want to match assets asshole we can bet on it.

  17. #367
    Thor4140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy117 View Post
    It's not a relevant part of this argument at all.
    Wages min wages it is all part of the debate. Cutting wages on workers is one reason people want to raise the min wage. By the way who put u in charge of what is being posted in a thread? I don't see moderator listed underneath ur name.

  18. #368
    Andy117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor4140 View Post
    Wages min wages it is all part of the debate. Cutting wages on workers is one reason people want to raise the min wage. By the way who put u in charge of what is being posted in a thread? I don't see moderator listed underneath ur name.
    No one. You want to have a conversation about corporate tax rates go ahead and make a thread about it. Bringing that up in this discussion is stupid.
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  19. #369
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor4140 View Post
    You are so over-matched in this discussion it is comical.
    Are u afraid these people might buy something u want because they are right on the doorstep of ur wage?
    Overmatched? Really?

    I've been kicking your ass since page 5. Every since you went on your predictable "all republicans bad, all democrats good" rant I have been whipping you like a rented mule. Every statement I have made has been backed up, you are posting right out of the democrat text book. "when cornered, fight back with perjuratives" That part is in the first chapter of the democrat page book.

    You have spewed so much bullshit without an ounce of proof here it's beyond funny.
    I don't even know where to begin, I think my favorite is when you stated "Democrats don't do my speaking for me" yet every other post from you is right from the liberal talking points folder.
    Really? The democrats don't speak for you?

    I guess my second favorite is the Boeing rant of yours.
    a) if a particular state offers tax incentives to a corportation, and that corporation takes advantage of that offer, how is that corportation evil?
    b) then you pretty much stated Boeing treats their employees like shit, and I went on to prove they pay better than median for their professionals, they pay their interns that are just starting out over 21 dollars an hour, that Boeing pays employee benefits, and Boeing has dozens of accolaids for being a great corporation to work for.... Proving once again, you make it up as you go along.

    Did you like the part about how the new CEO at Walmart started out by unloading Walmart trucks for minimum, and now runs the company.
    That's how it's done here in America, get your foot in the door, make something out of yourself, move up, sky's the limit.

    This is how you don't do it in America, sit on your ass and wait for your welfare check, bitch and moan about income inequality, while waiting for your welfare check. Instead of bitching and moaning while waiting for your SNAP benefits, and everything else you get from my tax dollars that go into the funds, go out, learn a trade, take an intern job, move up. If you are good, you will move up.

    Listen pal, I am all for everybody going out and getting what they can, even if they get more than I get, I am thrilled, don't care what somebody gets/makes, I got mine, I am more than satisfied, I make a handsome yearly salary, with Cigna health benefits that Obama can't touch with a ten foot pole, a retirement plan, an iron clad contract that guarantees me 4.5 percent, 4.5 percent, 3.5 percent across the next three years and the third year has performance perks, so that should give me at least 6 percent.

    Yeah pal, the company I work for treats me good, why should I shit on corporate, corporate is good to me.
    I get a profit sharing bonus every January too, know what that is? It's the company giving it's employees a cut of the profits, it's them saying to me, "we don't turn a profit without you guys, here's 4 grand, our way of saying good job"
    So, if they want to laugh behind my back, I really don't care if they laugh until they crap yourself, because they take care of what I need and then some, after perks and benefits, well over 100k, and close to 200k, but if somebody can get off their ass, get off of welfare, learn a trade and make 400k and stick it to me, I am all for it. I am not all for crade to grave welfare abusers, crying about the rich who went out and got what they got, just to listen it's not fair, I want some of what he got to make it fair. Don't work like that.

    Listen pal, I got a condo in Fairfield Ct. off the Brooklawn Country Club, I got everything I need, so why do I care if somebody else buys what I want, I have what I want.

    Oh, one more thing, would you like to see the studies that show raising the minimum wage hurts the economy?
    You know, proven facts what happened in Pa and NJ when on the same day, one state decided to raise the wage, and the other state stayed status quo?

    Now, the next time you go off on one of your rants, make sure you can back it up, just because you said so, doesn't make it a fact.

  20. #370
    Thor4140
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    Every thing u say about a post of mine is a misrepresentation of what i really meant. You put ur spin on it like we are talking about something else. When did i ever say i hate all corporations? there are a lot of good corporations out there that treat people well. I have problem with the ones who pay no tax or ship their money into their Swiss account but cry for more and more ways to get money. I would break down all ur stuff but u will come back with another three page statement in which i would have to break down again.

  21. #371
    newguy
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    I am likely one of only a handful of people who have read this whole thread. I actually think its been a (considering the source) well debated topic. I don't think there is a right answer. The CBO report was interesting - is it worth cutting 500k jobs to pull 900k out of poverty? The report was specific to say that 900k is net of those who would be part of that 500k who lost their job and dropped below poverty line.

    Like most things, the effects of this legislation would take a while to really be felt and we will never truly be able to measure the real outcome because you can't control for all other variables. My personal opinion is that while I don't think its an overall good thing - I think there are much bigger fights I would like to see Congress work through (entitlement reform, balancing the budget) and in the end I wouldn't vote against raising min. wage.

    I heard a number over the week that the US pays something in the neighborhood of $415b in interest payments on debt. Think what that could do if we could invest that back into the economy instead of servicing debt. (http://treasurydirect.gov/govt/repor...ir_expense.htm) Heard it from a senator at a conference but found that source there.
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  22. #372
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    went on your predictable "all republicans bad, all democrats good" rant I have been whipping you like a rented mule. Every statement I have made has been backed up, you are posting right out of the democrat text book. "when cornered, fight back with perjuratives" That part is in the first chapter of the democrat page book.
    As a foreigner I think I can speak unbiasedly to say WTF?!

    I have to say both sides seem to be using that playbook you mention, but it seems the GOP tragics are much faster than anyone else to write off any argument as socialist/liberal twaddle that will destroy the country.

    Do you guys really believe the other side has an agenda to wreck the country?

    Because that's how most of you speak, and often.

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  23. #373
    Thor4140
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    Quote Originally Posted by newguy View Post
    I am likely one of only a handful of people who have read this whole thread. I actually think its been a (considering the source) well debated topic. I don't think there is a right answer. The CBO report was interesting - is it worth cutting 500k jobs to pull 900k out of poverty? The report was specific to say that 900k is net of those who would be part of that 500k who lost their job and dropped below poverty line.

    Like most things, the effects of this legislation would take a while to really be felt and we will never truly be able to measure the real outcome because you can't control for all other variables. My personal opinion is that while I don't think its an overall good thing - I think there are much bigger fights I would like to see Congress work through (entitlement reform, balancing the budget) and in the end I wouldn't vote against raising min. wage.

    I heard a number over the week that the US pays something in the neighborhood of $415b in interest payments on debt. Think what that could do if we could invest that back into the economy instead of servicing debt. (http://treasurydirect.gov/govt/repor...ir_expense.htm) Heard it from a senator at a conference but found that source there.
    There never gonna fix this debt. When they finally had a shot with Clinton Georgy blew it all and than some. When Obama came to office it was like it was all his debt. He finally put stuff in the budget that Georgy and the other snake Cheney refused to like the war. So now instead of hiding everything on the creditt card Obama does what is right and these far righties feel all Georgy and Cheneys debt is Obamas now. You can't make this shit up. It is almost as bad as Bush saying the other day that we need to help the other 1 percent. The 1 percent he sent to war on a boat load of lies.

  24. #374
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor4140 View Post
    There never gonna fix this debt. When Obama came to office it was like it was all his debt. He finally put stuff in the budget that Georgy and the other snake Cheney refused to like the war.

  25. #375
    MeatWad
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    You can literally write a book on why this is a good move. Any effort to compensate the working man and neutralize the effects of economic polarization improves the economy and moral of the country as a whole. Increase capital gains taxes, decrease welfare and aid to capable people, and pay the workin' man his righteous due!

  26. #376
    newguy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor4140 View Post
    There never gonna fix this debt. When they finally had a shot with Clinton Georgy blew it all and than some. When Obama came to office it was like it was all his debt. He finally put stuff in the budget that Georgy and the other snake Cheney refused to like the war. So now instead of hiding everything on the creditt card Obama does what is right and these far righties feel all Georgy and Cheneys debt is Obamas now. You can't make this shit up. It is almost as bad as Bush saying the other day that we need to help the other 1 percent. The 1 percent he sent to war on a boat load of lies.

    Your right. Dems do it all right. Don't worry that bill did it on the back of strong economy set up by bush 1. Just stick with the story that makes dems look best by cherry picking facts.

    In the end none of this matters. Each of us reap what we sow. Just have to hope we can get politicians that are willing to work together instead of this shit last 10 years have been. I am not kidding that when I go to polls this year I am voting out every incumbent. Regardless of party. I've already started researching other countries that might be worth living in.
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  27. #377
    Thor4140
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    Worst presidential handoff in my lifetime. Those numbers are part of Georgy's and u know it. The bottom line is Clinton handed the righies a budget surplus and like they always do they blow it and more. Now tell me how it was the Republican congress during cClinton who should get all the praise. Just like it was Clinton fault with 9/11 even tho it happen on the righties watch. Nash do u still believe Sadam was responsible for 9/11? I know u Fox watches thought that for a long time.

  28. #378
    Thor4140
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    Quote Originally Posted by newguy View Post
    Your right. Dems do it all right. Don't worry that bill did it on the back of strong economy set up by bush 1. Just stick with the story that makes dems look best by cherry picking facts.

    In the end none of this matters. Each of us reap what we sow. Just have to hope we can get politicians that are willing to work together instead of this shit last 10 years have been. I am not kidding that when I go to polls this year I am voting out every incumbent. Regardless of party. I've already started researching other countries that might be worth living in.
    Strong economy started by Bush LMFAO. Typical right wing bullshit. Like all Bushes people couldn't wait to get the fuker out. He got his fake popularity hike with his war just like his son. When people finally wised up they started to figure out these thieves had an agenda for only a select few. Bushes have run this country into the ground and if u are to ignorant to see that nothing i can do.

  29. #379
    flyingillini
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
    I remember when it was $5.15
    I remember 3.35

  30. #380
    Sam Odom
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