1. 02-04-14 12:50 PM #1
    EXhoosier10
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    Betting with friends $$$

    My friends are willing to give me money for 6 months to bet with for them. What sort of commission structure would be fair, assuming I'm planning on making money and consistently doing this year in/year out.
    I was thinking
    2.5% commission
    70/30 split of 0 - 25% profit
    60/40 split all additional profits from 25.01% to 49.99%
    50/50 split all additional profits at or above 50%.

    Imagine I get 10K in 'investments' after commissions
    Say I return 20% after commission, that's:
    $250 in commission,
    $600 the first bracket
    My Profit = $850
    Their Profit = $1150 (11.5% ROI, 57.5% of profit)

    Say I return 30% after commission, that's:
    $250 in commission,
    $750 the first bracket
    $200 in the second bracket
    My Profit = $1200
    Their Profit = $1800 (18% ROI, 60% of profits)

    What would be a fair split?
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  2. 02-04-14 12:54 PM #2
    Ghenghis Kahn
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    what happens if you lose?
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  3. 02-04-14 01:13 PM #3
    I/O
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    friends and $$/business = bad
    family and $$/business = bad

    It never ends up like the Utopian picture it could have been. Sounds like you have been talking a bit.
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  4. 02-04-14 01:15 PM #4
    jjgold
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    Bad move kid

    You will lose it all and your friends
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  5. 02-04-14 01:16 PM #5
    Ghenghis Kahn
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    yup once he loses the $10,000. they will no longer be friends.
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  6. 02-04-14 01:27 PM #6
    No coincidences
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    Bad move kid

    You will lose it all and your friends
    If Ex is as good in other sports as he is with MLB, no, he won't.

    Guy is legit.
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  7. 02-04-14 01:30 PM #7
    No coincidences
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    Would you be betting your own money during this venture, Ex? And using the same plays/unit size? In other words, are they "hiring" you to be their gambler, or are they just trying to piggyback off your success?

    I'd be pretty stingy with my commission requirements. They need to know there are no shortcuts in gambling. I know you do your homework and due diligence, which takes a lot more time than the casual fan/gambler realizes.
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  8. 02-04-14 01:31 PM #8
    Ghenghis Kahn
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    if he was legit, he'd bet his own money. why share profit for doing all the work.

    get a loan if you have to, never mix money and friends together.
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  9. 02-04-14 01:48 PM #9
    I/O
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    He can post and track all his moves in one thread at this site. He can charge them later if he desires for a pre determined rate. They can look here for a daily thread. Less likely things go bad and everyone can get along later well after this great idea has died. If something does go wrong, they can stop looking or he can stop posting the plays.

    K    eep It Simple Stupid.
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  10. 02-04-14 01:54 PM #10
    Easy-Rider 66
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    Sounds like a bad idea. And imo you are taking to much of the pie assuming you win. Why not bet your own coin? If you are in + territory that should not be an issue. GL.
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  11. 02-04-14 03:18 PM #11
    EXhoosier10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghenghis Kahn View Post
    what happens if you lose?
    No downside for me if I lose outside of the money I put in myself. All investor's downside is covered by the investors themselves. My first time doing this I would have split 20% of potential losses. I've gotten a couple more friends for this year and can no longer afford the risk of covering losses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghenghis Kahn View Post
    if he was legit, he'd bet his own money. why share profit for doing all the work.
    get a loan if you have to, never mix money and friends together.
    I'm only 25 and have a personal limit of disposable income I'm willing to risk gambling. Obviously in any gambling scenario, there is risk. By having investors, I limit my monetary risk while getting additional profits. My goal is to obviously maximize my profits with as little risk as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    Would you be betting your own money during this venture, Ex? And using the same plays/unit size? In other words, are they "hiring" you to be their gambler, or are they just trying to piggyback off your success?

    I'd be pretty stingy with my commission requirements. They need to know there are no shortcuts in gambling. I know you do your homework and due diligence, which takes a lot more time than the casual fan/gambler realizes.
    I'm basically using their money and applying it to what I already do. Rather than me betting my normal amounts, I could potentially bet 20x that amount and swipe y% of that 20x. I'm looking for ideas on how to maximize that y%.
    Most of my friends gamble here and there and know I've been at this for a while now. Most understand the general time commitment and I've shared snapshots of my databases/models with some to show that what I've put together is in depth and not something that is doable by anyone in a couple of hours.
    Quote Originally Posted by I/O View Post
    He can post and track all his moves in one thread at this site. He can charge them later if he desires for a pre determined rate. They can look here for a daily thread. Less likely things go bad and everyone can get along later well after this great idea has died. If something does go wrong, they can stop looking or he can stop posting the plays.

    K    eep It Simple Stupid.
    In previous seasons I've posted to twitter (almost) daily and gave updated spreadsheets of my bets and progress every month. I want to post here, but I also have very little interest dealing with trolls, win or lose. I'm not on SBR looking for praise, I'm here during the season to bounce ideas off of people and learn things.
    With regards to your set %, what % do you recommend? A 10% flat fee, especially if i lose, sounds ludicrous from an investors perspective and I'd personally never lend anyone my money under those terms. From my perspective, taking a flat fee is useless since there's no reason for me to actually spend hours trying to winning a lot of money since I'm getting the same amount either way.

    That being said, I'm not reckless and use 1-5u bets at 1.25% / unit. I also remind all my investors, in big bold letters, that this is an investment and I can lose. I tell them the same thing i tell myself, which is not to invest anything that you can not afford to lose. If that means they give me a little less money, so be it.
    Last edited by EXhoosier10; 02-04-14 at 03:21 PM.
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  12. 02-04-14 03:26 PM #12
    Dirty Sanchez
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    Dude...you're going to end up swimming with the fishes....or a jail cell so stop and walk away. These stories always end up on the 6 O'clock news and you're the picture we see on who the victim is
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  13. 02-04-14 03:33 PM #13
    BIGDAY
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    Love the idea.

    Hope you kill the books pal.
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  14. 02-04-14 03:36 PM #14
    matthew919
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    I would not advise doing this. I've lent money to family/friends plenty of times, cosigned for a car loan, and got burned almost every single time. Seriously, no matter what. It's a really, really bad idea and it never ends well.

    Just bet your own money, be patient, and if it's meant to be, you will get rich. Focus on a few smaller markets in the off season to pad your roll in the meantime.

    What's your twitter?
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  15. 02-04-14 03:57 PM #15
    EXhoosier10
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew919 View Post
    Twitter
    SharpChiCity
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  16. 02-04-14 04:57 PM #16
    rkelly110
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    Using an off shore book? If so, if they want their money, don't forget those high fees the books charge to send
    you your own money. Books also limit how much you can withdraw.
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  17. 02-04-14 05:07 PM #17
    EXhoosier10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkelly110 View Post
    Using an off shore book? If so, if they want their money, don't forget those high fees the books charge to send
    you your own money. Books also limit how much you can withdraw.
    Personally, I've never had issues withdrawing from multiple offshores ranging from $100 to four digits. From my experience, they all have a day/week/time when they allow free withdrawals as well as covering deposit fees.
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  18. 02-04-14 05:10 PM #18
    No coincidences
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXhoosier10 View Post
    No downside for me if I lose outside of the money I put in myself. All investor's downside is covered by the investors themselves. My first time doing this I would have split 20% of potential losses. I've gotten a couple more friends for this year and can no longer afford the risk of covering losses.


    I'm only 25 and have a personal limit of disposable income I'm willing to risk gambling. Obviously in any gambling scenario, there is risk. By having investors, I limit my monetary risk while getting additional profits. My goal is to obviously maximize my profits with as little risk as possible.

    I'm basically using their money and applying it to what I already do. Rather than me betting my normal amounts, I could potentially bet 20x that amount and swipe y% of that 20x. I'm looking for ideas on how to maximize that y%.
    Most of my friends gamble here and there and know I've been at this for a while now. Most understand the general time commitment and I've shared snapshots of my databases/models with some to show that what I've put together is in depth and not something that is doable by anyone in a couple of hours.

    In previous seasons I've posted to twitter (almost) daily and gave updated spreadsheets of my bets and progress every month. I want to post here, but I also have very little interest dealing with trolls, win or lose. I'm not on SBR looking for praise, I'm here during the season to bounce ideas off of people and learn things.
    With regards to your set %, what % do you recommend? A 10% flat fee, especially if i lose, sounds ludicrous from an investors perspective and I'd personally never lend anyone my money under those terms. From my perspective, taking a flat fee is useless since there's no reason for me to actually spend hours trying to winning a lot of money since I'm getting the same amount either way.

    That being said, I'm not reckless and use 1-5u bets at 1.25% / unit. I also remind all my investors, in big bold letters, that this is an investment and I can lose. I tell them the same thing i tell myself, which is not to invest anything that you can not afford to lose. If that means they give me a little less money, so be it.
    Your biggest problem is you are "bouncing ideas" off a forum dominated by degenerates who bet way beyond their means. In other words, you are approaching it from a logical, model-based formula of investing, and getting advice from dart throwers who predominantly and collectively lose the shirt off their back every chance they get in this game.
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  19. 02-04-14 05:36 PM #19
    Dirty Sanchez
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    Your biggest problem is you are "bouncing ideas" off a forum dominated by degenerates who bet way beyond their means. In other words, you are approaching it from a logical, model-based formula of investing, and getting advice from dart throwers who predominantly and collectively lose the shirt off their back every chance they get in this game.
    Guys here would throw their own mothers in front of a speeding train to make a buck or get a free pizza...getting advice from them is asking for trouble
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  20. 02-04-14 05:39 PM #20
    EXhoosier10
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    Your biggest problem is you are "bouncing ideas" off a forum dominated by degenerates who bet way beyond their means. In other words, you are approaching it from a logical, model-based formula of investing, and getting advice from dart throwers who predominantly and collectively lose the shirt off their back every chance they get in this game.
    Sometimes I wish my friends IRL bet more and bet successfully. A friend right now is trying to get me to use this 6 game chase this year and talking to him about it is making me want to gauge my eyes out. He put together a spreadsheet that lists all his outcomes and even has a cell that shows the expected outcome is negative; yet he keeps saying it's a good way to build a bankroll.

    There are a few here, yourself included, that make reading through everyone else's bs worthwhile.
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  21. 02-04-14 05:46 PM #21
    BigdaddyQH
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    The major problem that you will have to ovecome is how everyone reacts when the losing streak comes, and it WILL come. If you think not, you are only fooling yourself. This seems like a rather big risk for such a relatively small return. All it takes is one pissed off "investor" and you are swimming with the fishes, either actually or figuratively speaking. If you do so well, then you do not need gimmicks like this to make more money. Greed kills, one way or another. Remember that.
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  22. 02-04-14 06:08 PM #22
    Ghenghis Kahn
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    Quote Originally Posted by No coincidences View Post
    Your biggest problem is you are "bouncing ideas" off a forum dominated by degenerates who bet way beyond their means. In other words, you are approaching it from a logical, model-based formula of investing, and getting advice from dart throwers who predominantly and collectively lose the shirt off their back every chance they get in this game.
    lol speak for yourself.

    you bet $20 per game and you act like a big shot.

    never seen someone married with kids spend so much time on sbr.

    if you're gonna waste your life on sbr at least make your bets worth your time.
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  23. 02-04-14 06:15 PM #23
    Big Bear
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXhoosier10 View Post
    My friends are willing to give me money for 6 months to bet with for them. What sort of commission structure would be fair, assuming I'm planning on making money and consistently doing this year in/year out.
    I was thinking
    2.5% commission
    70/30 split of 0 - 25% profit
    60/40 split all additional profits from 25.01% to 49.99%
    50/50 split all additional profits at or above 50%.

    Imagine I get 10K in 'investments' after commissions
    Say I return 20% after commission, that's:
    $250 in commission,
    $600 the first bracket
    My Profit = $850
    Their Profit = $1150 (11.5% ROI, 57.5% of profit)

    Say I return 30% after commission, that's:
    $250 in commission,
    $750 the first bracket
    $200 in the second bracket
    My Profit = $1200
    Their Profit = $1800 (18% ROI, 60% of profits)

    What would be a fair split?
    i am calling bullshit.

    no way your friends are that stupid.
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  24. 02-04-14 06:21 PM #24
    EXhoosier10
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    Today, 06:15 PM
    Big Bear
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    This message is hidden because Big Bear is on your ignore list.
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    Remove user from ignore list

    Cool story, bro.
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  25. 02-05-14 02:44 PM #25
    EXhoosier10
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    anybody have thoughts on this payout structure? does it seem fair?
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  26. 02-05-14 03:08 PM #26
    jjgold
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    Hooiser yur booking and it is illegal

    We do not encourage illegal activities

    best of luck guy
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  27. 02-05-14 04:29 PM #27
    Big Bear
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXhoosier10 View Post
    anybody have thoughts on this payout structure? does it seem fair?
    eat a fat dikk biyatch
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  28. 02-05-14 04:45 PM #28
    benjy
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    70/30 split with no commission is pretty standard. Your add on for higher payouts is different but seems somewhat reasonable.
    Last edited by benjy; 02-05-14 at 04:48 PM. Reason: added the no commission bit
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  29. 02-05-14 04:53 PM #29
    No coincidences
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghenghis Kahn View Post
    lol speak for yourself.

    you bet $20 per game and you act like a big shot.

    never seen someone married with kids spend so much time on sbr.

    if you're gonna waste your life on sbr at least make your bets worth your time.
    I pick winners, documented for all to see. I'm sorry if that offends or threatens you.
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  30. 02-05-14 04:53 PM #30
    tto827
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    Hooiser yur booking and it is illegal

    We do not encourage illegal activities

    best of luck guy
    Apparently midday JJ doesn't know how to read
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  31. 02-05-14 04:55 PM #31
    No coincidences
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXhoosier10 View Post
    Sometimes I wish my friends IRL bet more and bet successfully. A friend right now is trying to get me to use this 6 game chase this year and talking to him about it is making me want to gauge my eyes out. He put together a spreadsheet that lists all his outcomes and even has a cell that shows the expected outcome is negative; yet he keeps saying it's a good way to build a bankroll.

    There are a few here, yourself included, that make reading through everyone else's bs worthwhile.
    Thanks Ex. You are definitely one of the good guys here, and that goes beyond your ability to win, which speaks for itself. These brokedicks could learn a thing or two from you.
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