[pags11]

first off, there should be a minimum post count of say 200 posts to participate (like SBR usually does in the other contest they put together)...I'm all about creating a competitive environment, but these contests should be for people that actually spend time here at SBR, not just posters looking to make a quick buck ('cause long term 97% of them won't stick around)...this will discourage possible ghosts (which could lead to multiple brackets being created by manipulating posters)...

also, I find interesting that picking the correct winner of the 8 vs. 9 seed in the first round is potentially weighed more heavily than picking a team to reach the final four...I understand the importance of encouraging people to pick upsets, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way...

possibly we could have a truly balanced scoring system?..one that encourages both underdog picks and also picking teams that we think can make deep tournament runs...

just my thoughts...you can do what you want with them...

GL the rest of the way to everyone in the bracket contest...

[tacomax]

I'm guessing that you're not doing very well in the contest?

[imgv94]

I'm guessing that you're not doing very well in the contest?

Instead of your usual personal insults why don't you comment on the subject?

BTW his bracket is actually pretty good, all of his elite 8 teams are still alive.

[tacomax]

Where am I insulting? Show me a personal insult, please.

I'm inquiring how he's doing in the contest since I don't enter things like this. Just a bit odd that suggestions are being made when the competition has already begun - suggestions like that would be far better made before the contest started. And I doubt that these suggestions would me made from someone who was winning the contest. And, in my opinion, a bit off with the suggestion that the contest could have been made better when it's a free to enter contest being bankrolled by SBR.

But that's just my opinion and one which I'm entitled to - if it's OK with you of course.

[Sean]

... I find interesting that picking the correct winner of the 8 vs. 9 seed in the first round is potentially weighed more heavily than picking a team to reach the final four...

Not sure I understand this. A first round winner at, for the sake of argument, the #9 seed, earns 9 points. A number one seed reaching the final four will have earned 10 points at that stage.

... these contests should be for people that actually spend time here at SBR ...

Or, SBR may choose to spend its money on contests such as this in order to attract new visitors to its sites. Some will come here simply for the contest. Some will stick around. Some may become active contributors to the forum. Contests such as these are also marketing and branding tools.

... this will discourage possible ghosts (which could lead to multiple brackets being created by manipulating posters)...

As always, we make a concerted effort to weed out duplicate entries.

possibly we could have a truly balanced scoring system?..one that encourages both underdog picks and also picking teams that we think can make deep tournament runs...

I'd be interested in hearing specific suggestions for this.

[Dark Horse]

According to Ganch 239 out of 292 participants have zero chance to end in the money after the first weekend. That may be the nature of bracket contests. But it makes you wonder it there isn't a formula to keep things more interesting longer for more contestants.

[Ganchrow]

According to Ganch 239 out of 292 participants have zero chance to end in the money after the first weekend. That may be the nature of bracket contests. But it makes you wonder it there isn't a formula to keep things more interesting longer for more contestants.

239 was the result of a miscount on my part (mea culpa). 212 is the accurate figure. Nevertheless, one poster (Wade Wright, age 43) has a nearly 60% probability of finishing in 1^st place while, 5 players together have a nearly 70% probability of finishing in 2^nd place (Wade Wright, 17.48%; MAB, 16.61%; BuddyBear, 14.16%; Mulinello, 10.26%; and playaction, 10.20%).


You can check out the contest analysis thread here.

[Dead Money]

I can't believe that there were only around 300 entries??


I understand about the post count thing though.

Sure Wade Wright did a great job picking winners, but he has not made 1 single post on the forum.

Would definitley like to see one of the regulars come in the money.

Anyway good luck to all.

[Razz]

first off, there should be a minimum post count of say 200 posts to participate (like SBR usually does in the other contest they put together)...I'm all about creating a competitive environment, but these contests should be for people that actually spend time here at SBR, not just posters looking to make a quick buck ('cause long term 97% of them won't stick around

I find it astonishing that this isn't mandatory in the first place. Even if the number was something like 25 or 50 posts, that would be acceptable. By the way, 97% is about 3% too low.

I actually like the scoring system.

[imgv94]

People who have only picked 31-32 winners at this point of the contest are still in the top 65 and people who have picked the same amount of winners aren't even in the top 250.

WOW what a joke..

[pags11]

since I'm involved currently in 21 different bracket contests, I've been able to evaluate a variety of scoring systems...the fairest systems I've found that combine skill with an emphasis on underdogs is the following system:

Round One: 2 pts plus the seed
Round Two: 4 pts plust the seed
Elite Eight: 6 pts plus the seed
Final Four: 8 pts plus the seed
Championship Game: 10 pts plus the seed
Champion: 12 pts plus the seed

The fundamental flaw (in my opinion) with this contest is that the seed is multiplied by the round, rather than just added.

As far as SBR using this as a marketing tool, I can totally understand why they'd want to do that. I'd just announce a month or so before hand that there will be a minimum post count requirement. This would really weed out those that want to make the effort to be a part of SBR, vs. those just looking to take advantage of the situation.

[tacomax]

People who have only picked 31-32 winners at this point of the contest are still in the top 65 and people who have picked the same amount of winners aren't even in the top 250.

Does it matter how the contest is set up? The rules are laid out at the start and you have to try formulate a strategy based on the rules. If you're not winning, you're not using the right strategy according to the pre-determined rules - it's that simple.

I'm guessing that you're not doing well either?

WOW what a joke..

Like me, you're also entitled to your opinion. I just find it a bit classless to have a whinge about a free contest on the main board while the competition is still running.

However, I'm sure that SBR will happily refund you twice the entry fee to cover any inconvenience.

[pags11]

tacomax,

who are to talk about strategy?...you don't even attempt to participate yet you are the first to scrutinize...

[tacomax]

who are to talk about strategy?...you don't even attempt to participate yet you are the first to scrutinize...

Did the rules change between you picking the teams and the contest starting? If not, you should have made your choices to maximise your return bearing in mind the constraints and rules laid out. That's strategy 101 whether in a free contest, making a bet with a book or pretty much all the choices you make in life.

[Sean]

People who have only picked 31-32 winners at this point of the contest are still in the top 65 and people who have picked the same amount of winners aren't even in the top 250.

WOW what a joke..

Feel free to skip any of the contests whose rules don't suit you. The rules and scoring system were laid out well in advance. Why didn't you voice your displeasure BEFORE the start of this year's brackets contest instead of AFTER you were eliminated from contention?

[pags11]

to be honest, I didn't really post over the last four days because of all of the hoops games (and running around signing up for various contests)...had I been posting frequently and had the time, I would have expressed my reservations then...also, I really had to think about the format to let it sink in before I posted this thread...whether or not I'm in 25th (which I would have been had Nevada and Texas won), or 107th is no bearing on my thoughts on this matter...for example, I'm in a contest where every game period is worth one point...I'm in a very good position to win that contest, but I still posted today that the format was one that wasn't structured well...so I guess in 19 of the 21 contest, I thought the variation of the scoring systems were OK, just these two I had issues with...it doesn't surprise me that dillweeds like tacomax try to take shots here, saying I have issues only because I'm not going to win this year (yet he was dead silent last year when I won this same contest)...posters around here know I want to give feedback about what's best for everyone, not just what would be good for me...

I think it's important that sean or anyone from the SBR staff not take this personally...I'm appreciative that I had the opportunity to participate in not only this contest, but last year's contest as well...feedback is just that, to be taken or left...

[BuddyBear]

Great, professional post Pags.....

Tacomax you could learn something from others on here...especially the way in which Pags presents his arguments with such clairty and precision.

[tacomax]

Yes, I've learnt that he's complaining about a contest which SBR were nice enough to provide at no cost to him. I've also learnt that he only complains about the contest once it is up and running - and out of the running as well it seems. I've also learnt that he has been busy for the last four days so he hadn't had time to see the rules - this is all well and good aside from the fact that the contest rules were posted nearly 3 weeks ago and over 2 weeks since he was aware of the contest. Finally, I've learnt that the people complaining about the contest are those who aren't doing well in it.

So yes, Buddybear, I've learnt a lot today.

[imgv94]

Feel free to skip any of the contests whose rules don't suit you. The rules and scoring system were laid out well in advance. Why didn't you voice your displeasure BEFORE the start of this year's brackets contest instead of AFTER you were eliminated from contention?

Say what you want about me but the fact that I've picked 36 winners and people who have picked 32 winners are well ahead shows obvious flaws...

I appreciate you running the contest but it's the least you can do considering you guys are making 10k a month with the banners on the top of the page I think it's only fair you give something back to the posters isn't?

Oh yeah Tacomax shut up you SBR kiss ass, you are so predictable with you're anti pags,imgv,buddy posts and you're pro SBR rants just shut the hell up already, you aren't involved so leave..

[Razz]

Say what you want about me but the fact that I've picked 36 winners and people who have picked 32 winners are well ahead shows obvious flaws...

Not really. The scoring system was known in advance, which is why I, and I'm sure several other people, picked teams such as Michigan state, UNLV, and BYU to make the Sweet 16.

[tacomax]

Oh yeah Tacomax shut up you SBR kiss ass, you are so predictable with you're anti pags,imgv,buddy posts and you're pro SBR rants just shut the hell up already, you aren't involved so leave..

I'm sorry - you still don't get it. Look at the rules - it's not about picking the most winners, it's getting the most points based on the seed number and round weight. Did you read the rules before you made your picks? A one-minute glance at the rules tells you that it's nothing to do with having the most winners - it's all about the quality of your winners with regard to maximising the return based on the constraints of the scoring system.

And now after badmouthing the contest already, you've somehow come to the conclusion that SBR owe you something since the site generates income. Sometimes you surprise even me.

[imgv94]

I'm sorry - you still don't get it. Look at the rules - it's not about picking the most winners, it's getting the most points based on the seed number and round weight. Did you read the rules before you made your picks? A one-minute glance at the rules tells you that it's nothing to do with having the most winners - it's all about the quality of your winners with regard to maximising the return based on the constraints of the scoring system.

And now after badmouthing the contest already, you've somehow come to the conclusion that SBR owe you something since the site generates income. Sometimes you surprise even me.

Wow for someone who didn't participate in the contest you sure sound defensive of it's rules hmm I wonder why maybe cuz you are an obvious gimmick account used by one of SBRs big wigs when they want to say something negative without using their real user name..

Notice you only come around to defend SBR or bad mouth people on here?

You never enter contests,never discuss games, you are just SBRs bitch!!!!!!!!!

[slacker00]

tacomax is attacking pags11, not his statements. I don't know why this is tolerated.

I agree with pags11, in that I prefer there be a bare minimum of post count for participants. I say this because I like to know what kind of person is kicking my ass. Seriously, though, it makes it more fun to include some banter by the participants, not mention giving us a chance to welcome a new forum member.

I agree that if most participants are eliminated after the first weekend, there is a little left to be desired. There's definitely value to keeping more people interested for a longer period of time for the contest duration.

I respect SBR to choose whatever format they prefer for their contests, but I also know that SBR does take member feedback into consideration for future contests.

[bigboydan]

Not really. The scoring system was known in advance, which is why I, and I'm sure several other people, picked teams such as Michigan state, UNLV, and BYU to make the Sweet 16.

Your 100% correct Razz.

I rarely even play any contests as everyone here knows, but I did this one for kicks. Sure I could have picked the obvious, but I took a lot of chances based on the scoring system. Why else do you think I took a shot with Vandy in the finals.

[tacomax]

Wow for someone who didn't participate in the contest you sure sound defensive of it's rules hmm I wonder why maybe cuz you are an obvious gimmick account used by one of SBRs big wigs when they want to say something negative without using their real user name..

Dearie me, that weed is altering your logic more than I ever realised.

But seriously, don't you agree with me that it's pretty damn classless to have a pop like you and pags have been doing? And don't you think it's even more classless that you then publicly have a go at Sean who helped in organising the contest?

Incidentally, why not have a chat with Razz before you enter the next contest - looks like it didn't take him (and many others out there) long how to best maximise his chances in the contest.

[tacomax]

Why else do you think I took a shot with Vandy in the finals.

Because you thought they would win. The same reason you take the Yankees to win the World Series every year.

[bigboydan]

Because you thought they would win. The same reason you take the Yankees to win the World Series every year.

Thats right! I keep forgetting I take the Yankees every year to win a 100+ games, and win the World Series.

[bigboydan]

don't you think it's even more classless that you then publicly have a go at Sean who helped in organising the contest?

It's one thing to rip mods, but it's not cool to rip Sean about something he went out of his way to ask SBR_John to put up a nice prize for all of us. Then goes out of his way to organize the contest.

People should be greatful to Sean for going out of his way for doing this for all the posters, because he didn't have to do it.

[pags11]

slacker,

excellent post...last year it was fun as I knew almost all of the particpants (granted there were only 45)...we did talk smack and there was great anticipation with each game...this year I don't recognize 85 to 90% of the contestants and I'm not sure I've ever particpated in a bracket contest that eliminated 80% of the players after the first weekend...

you are also correct regarding tacomax...he thinks he's of the highest in class around here, but no one really respects him or his antics...have to agree with him being SBR's bitch at this point...

dan,

I understand what you are saying about sean not having to do the contest...I'm greatful that he did decide to put it on again this year...I'm just not understanding why the scoring system swung so drastically...in SBR's defense, I think looking at a potential system a month before the tourney and thinking it's a good one but then actually seeing the system unfold are two different things...I don't believe it was SBR's intention to eliminate this many players so early in the contest...I do believe they were trying to create a contest that the square player as well as the sharp player could win (thus, the change from the traditional scoring system used last year to this radical one, the no post requirement, the lack of a tiebreaker based on posts, etc.)...

I know there are many others that are thinking these same thoughts about the contest, I just was the one to put it out there first...hopefully, next year's scoring system (if there is a contest) will be somewhere in between this year's and last year's contest scoring system...

while you may or may not care for imgv's delivery, you must respect his passion for stating what he believes...I actually think he's gotten a lot better at not ripping the mods...and hell, he hasn't posted one of those diarea links in here in almost a year! (those were so gross, but so funny at the same time)...it's pretty frustrating when guys like him have their entire elite eight left and don't even have a prayer to win...

make sure you guys keep looking out for tacomax's soccer picks of the day...he's hitting at a 38% clip currently!...

[slacker00]

It's one thing to rip mods, but it's not cool to rip Sean about something he went out of his way to ask SBR_John to put up a nice prize for all of us. Then goes out of his way to organize the contest.

People should be greatful to Sean for going out of his way for doing this for all the posters, because he didn't have to do it.

I read and reread imgv94's posts in this thread and fail to see how imgv94 is ripping Sean. imgv94 made some comments on the contest format, which is BTW the nature of this thread. Sean replied that imgv94 need not participate if the rules aren't adequate. I don't think either person is ripping the other one, just some constructive statements being exchanged.

Now, tacomax first post in this thread is nothing but a rip intended at the thread starter. Then again tacomax is a troll and we cannot hope for anything more from him/her. What I don't understand is why SBR allows such a high profile troll to exist on these message boards, which otherwise seem to harbor intelligent discussion.

[imgv94]

Incidentally, why not have a chat with Razz before you enter the next contest - looks like it didn't take him (and many others out there) long how to best maximise his chances in the contest.

Hilarious. So anyone who isn't in the top of the standings didn't maximise their chances,you just ripped on a bunch of people nice job buddy


There is close to 300 contestants and many of the games went down to the wire but you wouldn't know this cause you don't watch the games.

GIMMICK ACCOUNT

[tacomax]

Hilarious. So anyone who isn't in the top of the standings didn't maximise their chances,you just ripped on a bunch of people nice job buddy

Jeez - you still don't get it, do you? And you wonder why you're not still in the contest. You moan about the system not rewarding you for picking winning games when it's apparent you couldn't even understand the frickin' rules. And who am I ripping? I'm certainly not ripping the organisers of the contest. And I'm certainly not ripping the people who took a chance to win and had the class and common decency not to start a sour grapes thread dismissing the whole competition when they fell at the first hurdle. So yes, as you might be able to work out (or quite probably not) I'm only addressing a couple of people here.

Anyway since the entire Square Bear Bunch is joining in the circle jerk, I'll leave it at this and save the thread getting bumped and spoiling what is otherwise a good contest.

[imgv94]

it's not cool to rip Sean about something he went out of his way to ask SBR_John to put up a nice prize for all of us. Then goes out of his way to organize the contest.


People should be greatful to Sean for going out of his way for doing this for all the posters, because he didn't have to do it.

Show me where I ripped on Sean? Believe slash and Yoshi said it best.....

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/private-zo...-diverted.html

[slacker00]

tacomax suggesting tailing Razz actually is pretty good advice. Razz is a top notch handicapper. Unfortunately, I took this as being sarcasm when I first read it. I'm still not entirely convinced that it isn't sarcasm.

Yeah, I shoulda PMed Razz for some advice on my own picks. I'm 10th from the bottom. How is tacomax standing? Oh, riiiiight. He doesn't have enough balls to play ball.

As for the contest suggestions, I'd got another idea. Keep the scoring format the same, but let every participant pick the games round by round. So, if my favorite to win it all gets knocked out in the first round, I can keep picking the games and am not thrown to the sidelines with one bad break. The benefit will be that participants will benefit to check in after every round to pick the next round's games. This increases participation and traffic for SBR. That's the point of the contest, right, generate traffic for SBR?

[imgv94]

I read and reread imgv94's posts in this thread and fail to see how imgv94 is ripping Sean. imgv94 made some comments on the contest format, which is BTW the nature of this thread. Sean replied that imgv94 need not participate if the rules aren't adequate. I don't think either person is ripping the other one, just some constructive statements being exchanged.

Exactly

Now, tacomax first post in this thread is nothing but a rip intended at the thread starter. Then again tacomax is a troll and we cannot hope for anything more from him/her. What I don't understand is why SBR allows such a high profile troll to exist on these message boards, which otherwise seem to harbor intelligent discussion.

Tacomax will always BE allowed here because he is SBRs bitch/gimmick account. The name Tacomax is being used by one of the admin here sparingly to defend SBR and say things they wouldn't want tied to their own names, like the excessive insults.

Have you seen the name Tacomax on any other forum? Have you seen Taco participate in any contests here? So obvious it's a gimmick account..

Use this thread for an example, Tacomax didn't play in the contest but is defending it endlessly? C'mon..