[Doughboy22]

Not interference??? You sound stupid

[BriGuy]

Gronk is trying to adjust to get to the ball, but cannot do so because he is essentially being bear hugged out the back of the end zone. If Kuechly doesn't interfere then the ball never reaches Gronk because it would be intercepted. HOWEVER, that is not allowed to be factored into the officiating decision. If a guy is in double coverage and 1 guy interferes and the other intercepts, they are supposed to throw the flag.... they can't say "oh it was uncatchable because it was intercepted"....

[InTheDrink]

The ball was a good 5-6 yards under thrown and touched by a defender prior to the ball getting to the receiver(in this case intercepted). It can't be PI. They could of called illegal contact past 5 yards but that is rarely called these days.

BTW, Brady got away with a grounding call on that 3rd and 10 where he threw down the ball in the left flat when his receiver was on the right flat. That would of made it 4th and 18 and who knows. The calls equal out.

i think we need a rules refresher for some of you folks....

in reference to "walker's" post

Contact Beyond Five-Yard Zone. Beyond the five-yard zone, if the player who receives the snap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver. If the receiver attempts to evade the defender, the defender cannot initiate contact that redirects, restricts, or impedes the receiver in any way.

in reference to posts by some others...

DEFENSIVE HOLDING
Defensive Holding. It is defensive holding if a player grasps an eligible offensive player (or his jersey) with his hands, or extends an arm or arms to cut off or encircle him.

Rule 8, Section 4, Article 7:

End of Restrictions.
If the quarterback or the receiver of the snap demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball (i.e., hands off or pitches the ball to another player, throws a forward or backward pass, loses possession of the ball by a muff that touches the ground or a fumble, or if he is tackled) the restrictions on the defensive team prohibiting illegal contact, an illegal cut block, or defensive holding against an offensive receiver will end.

So that leaves pass interference...which it absolutely was

we all know other people post as jjer

im convinced walker isn't the one posting as sbr_john....as clueless as these posts are im semi-convinced it's lou

[Kaabee]

The ball was a good 5-6 yards under thrown and touched by a defender prior to the ball getting to the receiver(in this case intercepted). It can't be PI. They could of called illegal contact past 5 yards but that is rarely called these days.

BTW, Brady got away with a grounding call on that 3rd and 10 where he threw down the ball in the left flat when his receiver was on the right flat. That would of made it 4th and 18 and who knows. The calls equal out.

the ball was in the air. illegal contact ceases to exist at that point. it's PI or nothing. it's really quite stunning how many people on this board don't know that.

[SBR_John]

the ball was in the air. illegal contact ceases to exist at that point. it's PI or nothing. it's really quite stunning how many people on this board don't know that.

Right. Then its nothing.

This is a little like baseball or basketball. The receiver was not in a position to catch the ball without running through two Jags. He would of had to stop and dive back through them. The defenders are not required to move out of the way.

Drinker these brilliant words of wisdom are indeed mine. The Brady pass into the ground, behind the line while centered in the pocket, with no receiver in the area was indeed Intentional Grounding. One could argue it was of no consequence since they completed a 23 yard pass the next play. But it does highlight my original point that calls are going to be made in a common sense fashion and not to the literal wording of the rule book. If Brady would have thrown the ball high where the receiver could have at least touched it they would have got the call. Bad pass, good defense, game over.

[InTheDrink]

so we're relying on the common sense of a possibly not so sensible official rather than the rule book?

you really think that's why those calls were determined as they were?

and good defense? that's comical

[Kaabee]

Right. Then its nothing.

Agreed.

[SBR_John]

so we're relying on the common sense of a possibly not so sensible official rather than the rule book?

you really think that's why those calls were determined as they were?

and good defense? that's comical

Have you ever seen a shortstop drag his foot by second base and never touch the bag and throw on to first for the double play with the ump standing six feet away? Come on drink butch up.

As for your last question; yes, if Brady throws the ball over the safety, who caught the ball, to where the receiver had a chance to catch it they would of called PI. The fact there was two defenders in the way of the under thrown ball gave the officials the ability to conclude the ball was not catchable and it was touched, in this case caught, prior to the ball getting to the receiver. If Brady threw the ball at least over the guy who intercepted you may have an argument.

[20Four7]

More than 60% of bets on NE.
Books would get killed if NE wins and covers.
Flag is thrown.
Call comes from Vegas to upstairs referee.
Flag is picked up.
This is how NFL works.
Get over it.

Pavy,

That's why you don't get on a public favorite on a big televised game like Monday night. You know what is going to happen so you fade the public.

[4TH AND STUPID]

It should have been defensive holding but at the same time does anyone really think Gronk had a chance at that ball? Brady threw that ball short and it's getting picked regardless.

also if this were fixed, the flag never would have been thrown in the first place.

backjudge threw the flag hes not the main official.


it was overturned by the head official

[d2bets]

Your argument seems to be that he probably wouldn't have caught it anyway. I agree. But that's not the rule. Are you arguing that it was impossible for him to catch it?

[d2bets]

Have you ever seen a shortstop drag his foot by second base and never touch the bag and throw on to first for the double play with the ump standing six feet away? Come on drink butch up.

As for your last question; yes, if Brady throws the ball over the safety, who caught the ball, to where the receiver had a chance to catch it they would of called PI. The fact there was two defenders in the way of the under thrown ball gave the officials the ability to conclude the ball was not catchable and it was touched, in this case caught, prior to the ball getting to the receiver. If Brady threw the ball at least over the guy who intercepted you may have an argument.

But if he wasn't mugged he .obit have planted his feet in the ground and been there to have a shot at that. You're just speculating that be probably wouldn't have.

[4TH AND STUPID]

Have you ever seen a shortstop drag his foot by second base and never touch the bag and throw on to first for the double play with the ump standing six feet away? Come on drink butch up.

As for your last question; yes, if Brady throws the ball over the safety, who caught the ball, to where the receiver had a chance to catch it they would of called PI. The fact there was two defenders in the way of the under thrown ball gave the officials the ability to conclude the ball was not catchable and it was touched, in this case caught, prior to the ball getting to the receiver. If Brady threw the ball at least over the guy who intercepted you may have an argument.

John,


Your reasoning is flawed. It doesn't matter if it would've likely been intercepted. The point is Gronk would've had a chance to fight for the ball and the ball was thrown at a trajectory that Gronk can make a play on it if he isnt mugged and forced toward the back of the endzone.



Reasons it is pass interference

1) kuechly muggs gronkowski and disallows him from making a play on the ball
2) kuechly does not make a play at the ball
3) kuechly does not turn around to look at the ball to make a play at the ball
4) kuechly has BOTH arms around gronk. thats a no no
5) flag was thrown. you can not pick up a flag like that. if the flag wasnt thrown in the first place then its still pass interference but it gets debated more. the fact that it was thrown and then picked up indicates foul play.



its really not rocket science. two hands on the defender preventing the offensive player to make a play on the football, who otherwise couldve made a play on the football if the defender doesnt interfere. doesnt matter if there is another defender around who could make a play as well. the point is gronk couldnt make a play and the defender never attempted to play the football.



its pass interference or holding at the very least. but to say it wasn't a penalty is outright wrong and kind've ignorant.

[InTheDrink]

if you watch this you can see gronk plant himself to turn as kuechly grabbed him and he was at most two steps from making the play

he's a monster and definitely one of the top 5 receivers in football...im not the one selling him short that he couldnt have pulled something out there

[SBR_John]

Your argument seems to be that he probably wouldn't have caught it anyway. I agree. But that's not the rule. Are you arguing that it was impossible for him to catch it?

It was possibly possible to catch the ball if there were not two defenders in the path of the ball, one which caught the ball. The receiver would have had to stop and dive back slightly but yes, if there were not two defenders between him and the ball he could have possibly caught it.

That's why I maintain if the ball was at least thrown high enough that receiver could touch it, over the under defender who caught it, that they would have called the face guarding and bumping by the cover defender as pass interference.

[SBR_John]

if you watch this you can see gronk plant himself to turn as kuechly grabbed him and he was at most two steps from making the play

he's a monster and definitely one of the top 5 receivers in football...im not the one selling him short that he couldnt have pulled something out there

Notice the defender catches the ball and falls down 3 yards deep inside the ez. That ball needs to be over his head to about 7 yards deep for the receiver to have any chance. You can't expect both defenders to jump out of the way and let the receiver jump back to 3 yards deep in the ez.

[Dr.Gonzo]

if you watch this you can see gronk plant himself to turn as kuechly grabbed him and he was at most two steps from making the play

he's a monster and definitely one of the top 5 receivers in football...im not the one selling him short that he couldnt have pulled something out there

There's no way, he ran behind 38 and momentum was taking him further behind before the contact.

[jjgold]

The more I watch it now Mr Walker is right, there is no way he was going to catch the ball

[stevenash]

Digest of Rules Main

Pass Interference

1. There shall be no interference with a forward pass thrown from behind the line. The restriction for the passing team starts with the snap. The restriction on the defensive team starts when the ball leaves the passer’s hand. Both restrictions end when the ball is touched by anyone.
2. The penalty for defensive pass interference is an automatic first down at the spot of the foul. If interference is in the end zone, it is first down for the offense on the defense’s 1-yard line. If previous spot was inside the defense’s 1-yard line, penalty is half the distance to the goal line.
3. The penalty for offensive pass interference is 10 yards from the previous spot.
4. It is pass interference by either team when any player movement beyond the line of scrimmage significantly hinders the progress of an eligible player of such player’s opportunity to catch the ball. Offensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is snapped until the ball is touched. Defensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is thrown until the ball is touched.
   
   Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:
   
   (a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.
   
   (b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.
   
   (c) Grabbing a receiver’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass.
   
   (d) Extending an arm across the body of a receiver thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, regardless of whether the defender is playing the ball.
   
   (e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball.
   
   (f) Hooking a receiver in an attempt to get to the ball in such a manner that it causes the receiver’s body to turn prior to the ball arriving.
   
   Actions that do not constitute pass interference include but are not limited to:
   
   (a) Incidental contact by a defender’s hands, arms, or body when both players are competing for the ball, or neither player is looking for the ball. If there is any question whether contact is incidental, the ruling shall be no interference.
   
   (b) Inadvertent tangling of feet when both players are playing the ball or neither player is playing the ball.
   
   (c) Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the involved players.
   
   (d) Laying a hand on a receiver that does not restrict the receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.
   
   (e) Contact by a defender who has gained position on a receiver in an attempt to catch the ball.
   
   Actions that constitute offensive pass interference include but are not limited to:
   
   (a) Blocking downfield by an offensive player prior to the ball being touched.
   
   (b) Initiating contact with a defender by shoving or pushing off thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass.
   
   (c) Driving through a defender who has established a position on the field.
   
   Actions that do not constitute offensive pass interference include but are not limited to:
   
   (a) Incidental contact by a receiver’s hands, arms, or body when both players are competing for the ball or neither player is looking for the ball.
   
   (b) Inadvertent touching of feet when both players are playing the ball or neither player is playing the ball.
   
   (c) Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the ball is clearly uncatchable by involved players.
   
   Note 1: If there is any question whether player contact is incidental, the ruling should be no interference.
   
   Note 2: Defensive players have as much right to the path of the ball as eligible offensive players.
   
   Note 3: Pass interference for both teams ends when the pass is touched.
   
   Note 4: There can be no pass interference at or behind the line of scrimmage, but defensive actions such as tackling a receiver can still result in a 5-yard penalty for defensive holding, if accepted.
   
   Note 5: Whenever a team presents an apparent punting formation, defensive pass interference is not to be called for action on the end man on the line of scrimmage, or an eligible receiver behind the line of scrimmage who is aligned or in motion more than one yard outside the end man on the line. Defensive holding, such as tackling a receiver, still can be called and result in a 5-yard penalty and automatic first down from the previous spot, if accepted. Offensive pass interference rules still apply.

[seaborneq]

I don't think if the flag is upheld that the Patriots score from the 1 yard line. Yes, the Pats played that poorly.

[InTheDrink]

There's no way, he ran behind 38 and momentum was taking him further behind before the contact.

is momentum luke kuechly's nickname?

[GoBlue77]

3 pages of discussion to say OP is a moron? it was a penalty. go get your head checked.

[stevenash]

I don't think if the flag is upheld that the Patriots score from the 1 yard line. Yes, the Pats played that poorly.

Not really, I have seen them play better games, sure, but they ran the ball fine, Brady, until the last play was pick free, made a couple of bad throws, but was over 70 percent.
Ridley put the ball on the ground in the first half, besides that, how did that play 'that poorly'

[stevenash]

is momentum luke kuechly's nickname?

No, it's tomorrow's starting pitchers nickname.

[Joey Blaze]

That call (or lack there of) cost me a lot of money last night.. its one thing to lose its another to be sick to your stomach because you know you got hustled on live national television

Also I heard Aqib Talib had a large bet on the panthers moneyline

[pavyracer]

Pavy,

That's why you don't get on a public favorite on a big televised game like Monday night. You know what is going to happen so you fade the public.

I did. I learned my lesson a long time ago. I remember a few years back it was Colts - Patriots in Indy on Monday night. Line was -2.5 Colts. Everyone was on Patriots +2.5 including me. Patriots are up by 4 with less than a minute. It's 4th and 2 from the Patriots 28 yard line. The stupid Belichek gets hit by lightning and decides to go for it. Of course the refs made sure they didn't make it. Then the Colts get the ball back and score a TD and win by 3 to screw the public. I believe it was the only time in history of the NFL a coach went on 4th and 2 from his own 28 yard line while he was winning the game.

[InTheDrink]

No, it's tomorrow's starting pitchers nickname.

nasher unrale

[stevenash]

That call (or lack there of) cost me a lot of money last night.. its one thing to lose its another to be sick to your stomach because you know you got hustled on live national television

Also I heard Aqib Talib had a large bet on the panthers moneyline

Now think of all the times you won you 'over' bet because some jabroni bricked a free throw to send a game into overtime instead of winning by 1, and you needed that o/t to cover.

Or what about the time some gypsy place kicker shanked a chippy to save your under bet?

Or, the runner-runner suck out to make your flush?


Get my point?

[Noleafclover]

5-6 yards = how far gronk was pushed

[Big Bear]

Right. Then its nothing.

This is a little like baseball or basketball. The receiver was not in a position to catch the ball without running through two Jags. He would of had to stop and dive back through them. The defenders are not required to move out of the way.

Drinker these brilliant words of wisdom are indeed mine. The Brady pass into the ground, behind the line while centered in the pocket, with no receiver in the area was indeed Intentional Grounding. One could argue it was of no consequence since they completed a 23 yard pass the next play. But it does highlight my original point that calls are going to be made in a common sense fashion and not to the literal wording of the rule book. If Brady would have thrown the ball high where the receiver could have at least touched it they would have got the call. Bad pass, good defense, game over.

c'mon man. Gronk was taken off his route. It was definitely pass interference. There is really no debating it .

Fact is ref threw the flag and then the old man ref with no hair grabbed the ref that threw the flag and told him pick up the flag , lets go home.

anyway i watched the replay several times tonight. I must let it go though.

The thing i will take away from it is i will never again take a public side in a primetime NFL game.

But one last comment about the play Gronk did a very poor job of selling it. He should have tried to fight toward the route he was intending to run and he should been physical with Kuechly.

If that had been me i would been fighting Keuchly after the play for putting his hands on me like that.

My only guess is maybe Gronk was too hurt to try to fight through his route.

[SBR_John]

c'mon man. Gronk was taken off his route. It was definitely pass interference. There is really no debating it .

Fact is ref threw the flag and then the old man ref with no hair grabbed the ref that threw the flag and told him pick up the flag , lets go home.

anyway i watched the replay several times tonight. I must let it go though.

The thing i will take away from it is i will never again take a public side in a primetime NFL game.

But one last comment about the play Gronk did a very poor job of selling it. He should have tried to fight toward the route he was intending to run and he should been physical with Kuechly.

If that had been me i would been fighting Keuchly after the play for putting his hands on me like that.

My only guess is maybe Gronk was too hurt to try to fight through his route.

The horse has been badly bludgeoned in this one. IF the pass was high enough the receiver could have at least touched the ball it would have been pass interference. Instead it was under thrown to a receiver in double coverage. The ball is not going to teleport through those two bodies and receiver is not going to turn on a cloaking device so he can stop and dive through those two bodies.

You have to be trying not to see what I'm telling you. The ball is under thrown and thrown inside with two defenders between the QB and receiver. IF the pass is high, eliminating a Jag from catching it, they would of called PI on the face guarding and bumping by the second defender.

[Scorpion]

i wish i was a mod, i would ban posters who complain about the refs.......

no decision makers at sbr, corporate mentality

[cameronmilks13]

If it wasn't the last play of the game, it would have been called. It is PI, because the ball is catchable. You can't "face-guard" in the NFL. Well, you can "face-guard" but you cannot touch the receiver while doing so. The ball should have been placed just outside the one-yard line. The play was blown, but keep in mind that there's no guarantee they score on one play against a tough Carolina defense.

[thechaoz]

[andywend]

Of course it was pass interference but the way the NFL works and has worked for a long time is if a play is close, the refs are instructed to do good for NFL's partner, Vegas. Vegas is good for the NFL. The NFL is good for Vegas. Can't get any more simple than that. Anybody who doesn't think so should check out the end of the Steelers / Chargers in Nov 2008

The NFL HATES the gambling aspect of football and have done everything they possibly could do to stop it. Nothing makes the NFL happier when questionable ref calls decide the outcome of the spread (though not the outcome of the game)