[Triple_D_Bet]

I never said once in this thread anything about rigging. All I said is SBR has the ability to dictate which player gets high winning percentage hands at critical times in the game. I have seen it with my own hands. Guy down to 50 chips and wins the tourney. This is not just a statistical anomaly.

K...so SBR giving certain people good starting hands when they're down to a few chips is NOT rigging anything? Interesting...

Regardless, your last statement is where we disagree...statisically unlikely things happen quite often, and a basic understanding of probability explains why. On SBR, situations like the one you described will probably happen more often...but it has less to do with SBR giving short stacks better cards (for some unfathomable reason) and more to do with poor tournament play from many SBR players

[konck]

SBR poker allows players to win if you watch who is winning you will see it is because they know they can fish until the river it will get there. Now tournies are a little different some guys just get more hand gold accts watch you know who they are try to stay away but a lot of times its set ups

[pavyracer]

SBR poker allows players to win if you watch who is winning you will see it is because they know they can fish until the river it will get there. Now tournies are a little different some guys just get more hand gold accts watch you know who they are try to stay away but a lot of times its set ups

Totally agree. If you know you are one of the chosen ones you keep chasing that river with your 20% chance of winning the hand.

Triple Bet thinks SBR poker is pure and only the best players win which is not true. I have taken tons of chips from players who are always placing high in the tourneys because SBR is "pushing" them to place high. You just have to know how to play them at the ring games to take their chips.

[DrStale]

Totally agree. If you know you are one of the chosen ones you keep chasing that river with your 20% chance of winning the hand.

Triple Bet thinks SBR poker is pure and only the best players win which is not true. I have taken tons of chips from players who are always placing high in the tourneys because SBR is "pushing" them to place high. You just have to know how to play them at the ring games to take their chips.

Unreal

[Triple_D_Bet]

SBR poker allows players to win if you watch who is winning you will see it is because they know they can fish until the river it will get there. Now tournies are a little different some guys just get more hand gold accts watch you know who they are try to stay away but a lot of times its set ups

With ignorance said to be bliss,
It's true, and it breaks down to this:
No delusion's so dumb,
That it fails to find some,
Who will also quite wrongly insist

[Jayvegas420]

Triple D is smart & I know he's not full of $H|T when he posts. Pavy doesn't mince words either, if he's posting something it's because he believes in it & thinks it's relevant.
That being said I am going to say something that will not sound very intelligent but, I have said it here before.
I think the software is rigged but not for any one player in particular.
The larger the pots the larger the rake & that is generally all that a poker site is concerned with. RAKE.
These good "starting hands" & "action flops" create action & action generates rake.
They're not trying to cheat for Pavy anymore than they are trying to cheat for Prior22 or me.
They just want alot of callers & a lot of chasers to achieve the maximum possible pot, therefore collecting the largest possible rake.
So, everyone is getting disproportionately good starting hands & hitting disproportionately favourable flops.
It's to create action but, usually not for one or two specific players.
Just my 2 cents.

[Triple_D_Bet]

Triple D is smart & I know he's not full of $H|T when he posts. Pavy doesn't mince words either, if he's posting something it's because he believes in it & thinks it's relevant.
That being said I am going to say something that will not sound very intelligent but, I have said it here before.
I think the software is rigged but not for any one player in particular.
The larger the pots the larger the rake & that is generally all that a poker site is concerned with. RAKE.
These good "starting hands" & "action flops" create action & action generates rake.
They're not trying to cheat for Pavy anymore than they are trying to cheat for Prior22 or me.
They just want alot of callers & a lot of chasers to achieve the maximum possible pot, therefore collecting the largest possible rake.
So, everyone is getting disproportionately good starting hands & hitting disproportionately favourable flops.
It's to create action but, usually not for one or two specific players.
Just my 2 cents.

I'm sure pavy believes what he's saying the same as you do Jay..my point is that you believe it without proof. The number of hands you'd need to see to be able to show even a slight tendency towards "irgging" is well in excess of the ones you've seen lifetime at SBR, and forget the fact that the ones you remember as significant form an even smaller subset.

Our brains evolved to be able to extrapolate from a few examples and draw conclusions to keep us alive (caveman get sick after eat plants. therefore, those plants bad). Unfortunately, games with an element of chance are probability driven, and as smart as any of us might think we are, we don't have the hardware to be able to draw valid conclusions from a game with as much variance as poker. When it comes to poker and most forms of gambling, our brains are wired to draw the wrong conclusions (I had a rare hand (KK), other dude had a rare hand (AA)...two rare hands must be extremely unlikely, therefore it must be rigged). Add in a supposed motive (SBR needs to maximize rake) and the picture looks complete, regardless of how wrong it is (is SBR going to all this trouble to maximize rake in some pots when they can't be bothered to tailor an annual contest given excessive player feedback?).

Is it possible SBR poker is rigged? Sure...the hands needed to prove it are the same needed to prove it isn't, and I don't have those. However, given the circumstances it seems a bit unlikely. We either have SBR customizing their poker client and meticulously coding it to be action-oriented (which presumably takes up so much time they can't be bothered to serve up a Ryder Cup that tailors to most of their customers), or we have a gambling website which bought a cheap poker client and made minimal changes to customize it to offer another feature to their membership. The simplest answer usually being correct, the latter is probably the case.

The other amazing thing about our brains is how resistant they can be to correction. You see it all the time with conspiracy nutters, and we've got some good examples of it in this thread as well. The fact that the people who tend to believe these things are rarely winning players should tell you something though

[pavyracer]

You missed the part where I said it's "rigged" (I'm freely using your term to describe my observations of SBR Poker) to favor me. I have been in tourneys where the software was very generous to me with great starting hands and I did very well to utilize them. I don't understand how RNG works. Why do I get shitty cards for 2 hrs one day and the next day I get AA and KK multiple teams in 30 min? This is why I said the software can be adjusted to benefit certain players at certain times. I have a graduate degree in engineering and a minor degree in mathematics. I can teach at any high school in the world as a Math teacher if I wanted to but I make 3 times more in engineering. It's not just a probability issue. The software doesn't give random cards all the time. Lou or whoever is pushing the buttons behind SBR Poker can decide who wins a tourney.

[daneblazer]

unrealievable

[DrStale]

You missed the part where I said it's "rigged" (I'm freely using your term to describe my observations of SBR Poker) to favor me. I have been in tourneys where the software was very generous to me with great starting hands and I did very well to utilize them. I don't understand how RNG works. Why do I get shitty cards for 2 hrs one day and the next day I get AA and KK multiple teams in 30 min? This is why I said the software can be adjusted to benefit certain players at certain times. I have a graduate degree in engineering and a minor degree in mathematics. I can teach at any high school in the world as a Math teacher if I wanted to but I make 3 times more in engineering. It's not just a probability issue. The software doesn't give random cards all the time. Lou or whoever is pushing the buttons behind SBR Poker can decide who wins a tourney.

I'd love to hear exactly what you and all of the other "riggers" think SBR is actually doing when you say "pushing the buttons." You really think that the brass has the wherewithal to not only tailor this software to the point where they can make specific players win but also the DESIRE to do it? All of the issues with the store, other sportsbooks, contests, site going down, etc. that they seem to have trouble correcting lately and yet they have coded the poker software so expertly that they can choose the winner of a hand by "pushing a button?"

[Optional]

You missed the part where I said it's "rigged" (I'm freely using your term to describe my observations of SBR Poker) to favor me. I have been in tourneys where the software was very generous to me with great starting hands and I did very well to utilize them. I don't understand how RNG works. Why do I get shitty cards for 2 hrs one day and the next day I get AA and KK multiple teams in 30 min? This is why I said the software can be adjusted to benefit certain players at certain times. I have a graduate degree in engineering and a minor degree in mathematics. I can teach at any high school in the world as a Math teacher if I wanted to but I make 3 times more in engineering. It's not just a probability issue. The software doesn't give random cards all the time. Lou or whoever is pushing the buttons behind SBR Poker can decide who wins a tourney.

ROFL, thank god for the kids you didn't choose math teaching then Pavy

Do you really not understand what he is trying to explain about sample size? And still claim to be a math teacher?!

[pavyracer]

I'd love to hear exactly what you and all of the other "riggers" think SBR is actually doing when you say "pushing the buttons." You really think that the brass has the wherewithal to not only tailor this software to the point where they can make specific players win but also the DESIRE to do it? All of the issues with the store, other sportsbooks, contests, site going down, etc. that they seem to have trouble correcting lately and yet they have coded the poker software so expertly that they can choose the winner of a hand by "pushing a button?"

Read this article. I'm not the only one who thinks certain players/teams are favored:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23748851

ROFL, thank god for the kids you didn't choose math teaching then Pavy

Do you really not understand what he is trying to explain about sample size? And still claim to be a math teacher?!

I believe playing SBR Poker for the last 3 years almost every night for 4-5 hrs qualifies as a HUGH sample size. I have played at least 1 million hands if not more the last three years.

[Jayvegas420]

I'd love to hear exactly what you and all of the other "riggers" think SBR is actually doing when you say "pushing the buttons." You really think that the brass has the wherewithal to not only tailor this software to the point where they can make specific players win but also the DESIRE to do it? All of the issues with the store, other sportsbooks, contests, site going down, etc. that they seem to have trouble correcting lately and yet they have coded the poker software so expertly that they can choose the winner of a hand by "pushing a button?"

Yes.
But you are right.....Why would they run the risk of getting caught?

[DrStale]

Read this article. I'm not the only one who thinks certain players/teams are favored:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23748851

Right. Because Premier League Soccer and SBR Poker have so much in common. I'd say you were grasping at straws but in this case I don't think the straws even exist.

[Optional]

I believe playing SBR Poker for the last 3 years almost every night for 4-5 hrs qualifies as a HUGH sample size. I have played at least 1 million hands if not more the last three years.

It doesn't. Because it's not just the number of hands. You would need to have logged and analyzed them, not simply remembered the ones you have.

But I do get where you are coming from. It does feel like a lot of big hands get made here to me too.

Maybe the software is/was being developed with admin manipulation features. Maybe it's just really shitty software that is not randomizing properly. Maybe we just perceive it's not as random as a paid play site because so many people have bigger ranges or just wont fold. Maybe we have convinced ourselves as a group that there is an issue as people keep saying it.

Maybe a lot of things. But none of us regular players can know the way you claim to.

[pavyracer]

Right. Because Premier League Soccer and SBR Poker have so much in common. I'd say you were grasping at straws but in this case I don't think the straws even exist.

SBR Poker and Premier League soccer have a lot in common. The refs can control the outcome of games and favor certain teams at certain times. A penalty kick can decide the outcome of a game if it's called or not called. Getting a timely river or not getting one in SBR poker when you are behind in the count can decide the outcome of a tourney. So yes there are a lot in common between officiating of Premier League games and officiating of SBR Poker tourneys.

[GUMMO77]

I'd love to hear exactly what you and all of the other "riggers" think SBR is actually doing when you say "pushing the buttons." You really think that the brass has the wherewithal to not only tailor this software to the point where they can make specific players win but also the DESIRE to do it? All of the issues with the store, other sportsbooks, contests, site going down, etc. that they seem to have trouble correcting lately and yet they have coded the poker software so expertly that they can choose the winner of a hand by "pushing a button?"

Actual photo from SBR headquarters.

doomswitch.jpg

[daneblazer]

Rigged.jpg

[DrStale]

SBR Poker and Premier League soccer have a lot in common. The refs can control the outcome of games and favor certain teams at certain times. A penalty kick can decide the outcome of a game if it's called or not called. Getting a timely river or not getting one in SBR poker when you are behind in the count can decide the outcome of a tourney. So yes there are a lot in common between officiating of Premier League games and officiating of SBR Poker tourneys.

There is no officiating of SBR tourneys. There is no magic switch. Mostly because nobody at SBR cares who wins but also because they don't have the resources to make it happen. Your argument is akin to saying that if there was evidence of game-fixing in the NFL then the Bingo down at the Senior Center could be rigged too.

[Optional]

haha love it

[SHADYLANKY]

I don't think there is any rigging going on in SBR poker. If a player is loose and plays more hands they will make more hands then a player who folds everything. With that player being noticeably loose it will most likely induce other players to play more hands. The more hands that are played the more likely someone makes a hand.
The other night I played and was feeling loose. I had a lot of luck in getting playable 1st 2 cards. I had far less luck with the flop. But I never feel like anything is rigged. I had a span of maybe 12 hands where I stared with 33, 66, 99, 1010, JJ, AKs AQs A10s JQs (suited) and a couple other playable hands. I think I won maybe one where I saw the flop. Shit happens. I also remember flopping 2 4 of a kinds last year in maybe 5 hands.
Played live B&M poker many times where one person at the table was catching all the cards for extended periods of time.

[Triple_D_Bet]

Read this article. I'm not the only one who thinks certain players/teams are favored:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23748851

Nobody doubts that you're alone in thinking something shady is going on; the internet is full of people saying the same thing...but it doesn't mean they're right.

I believe playing SBR Poker for the last 3 years almost every night for 4-5 hrs qualifies as a HUGH sample size. I have played at least 1 million hands if not more the last three years.

It's extremely unlikely you've seen a million hands of poker at SBR, and the rest of that claim doesn't hold water. Your first time playing poker on SBR for points was less than a year ago; if we assume every night for the last 10 months for 5 hours (which is certainly not the case), you'd have to be seeing ~657 hands per hour to reach 1 million hands.

As someone who HAS played 3 million hands online, it's nowhere near as quick as you think...but as I mentioned above, our brains are not wired to appreciate large numbers like this. It might feel like a million hands to you, but odds are you've seen quite a bit less than 50,000 or so. If you can be as far off with your estimate as I've shown, don't you think it's entirely possible that you're making a similar error in judgment when you believe that the RNG isn't random?

You might be a great engineer, I don't know...but my point is that it doesn't matter how good you are in a field that may seem related; your brain is working against you when it comes to making mental estimates of probability. In the same way you hopefully wouldn't design a bridge to handle traffic based on 20 seconds worth of the New Channel 5 SkyCam footage, you shouldn't believe you've spotted bias in the poker code based on undocumented tiny sample sizes.

[Jayvegas420]

Does anyone know how many total hands had been dealt as of 06/11?