[Big Bear]

The guy used to considered the Red Sox next closer

[Big Bear]

He was also one of the top set up men in the league... a former 1st round pick...


is it safe to say he is a Bust?

[joco]

no i wouldnt call him a bust just yet...he is either in AA or AAA this season...dunno why they havnt called him up again especially considering most of their relievers being injured. if he hasnt done anything in another year, two at most...hes 100% a bust

[Big Bear]

no i wouldnt call him a bust just yet...he is either in AA or AAA this season...dunno why they havnt called him up again especially considering most of their relievers being injured. if he hasnt done anything in another year, two at most...hes 100% a bust

yeah and they sure gave up on him quick as a starter.

did something happen after that Blue Jays game last season? did he go bezerk in the clubhouse?

[bobby heenan]

when the sox drafted him he was a starter....they signed him and worked him as a starter...he had issues...they successfully converted him to a reliever....and he was doing great things....guy could hit 99 and it looked effortless......then....out of pure greed(probably on both sides because the sox wanted to believe they could turn him into a dominate starter and bard wanted a big fat starter contract) they moved him back to a starter where it didnt work.....the guy had to tone down his fastball a bit in an effort to go deeper into games...not to say that a guy cant be effective throwing 95-96....but it took away what made him so dominate as a reliever.....i believe hes on the DL...or was....i think the sox were giving him a break to try to get his head right....dude was having ankiel/wholers like meltdowns

[Big Bear]

when the sox drafted him he was a starter....they signed him and worked him as a starter...he had issues...they successfully converted him to a reliever....and he was doing great things....guy could hit 99 and it looked effortless......then....out of pure greed(probably on both sides because the sox wanted to believe they could turn him into a dominate starter and bard wanted a big fat starter contract) they moved him back to a starter where it didnt work.....the guy had to tone down his fastball a bit in an effort to go deeper into games...not to say that a guy cant be effective throwing 95-96....but it took away what made him so dominate as a reliever.....i believe hes on the DL...or was....i think the sox were giving him a break to try to get his head right....dude was having ankiel/wholers like meltdowns

when you say meltdowns do you mean poor performance on the field or do you mean crazy antics off the field?


Btw i agree Bard never really had a good 3rd pitch and he was not able to throw his slider for a strike without hanging it.

Its amazing what 2-3 mph can do for your fastball

[bobby heenan]

when you say meltdowns do you mean poor performance on the field or do you mean crazy antics off the field?


Btw i agree Bard never really had a good 3rd pitch and he was not able to throw his slider for a strike without hanging it.

Its amazing what 2-3 mph can do for your fastball

i mean major control problems on the mound

[70kgman]

Guy can't throw a strike to save his life anymore. Has an ERA around 7 and 2.37 WHIP in AA this year, averages almost 2 walks per inning.

[You mad bro]

Guy can't throw a strike to save his life anymore. Has an ERA around 7 and 2.37 WHIP in AA this year, averages almost 2 walks per inning.

They could pay me to do that

[antifoil]

the potential of gaining a starter is greater than losing a reliever.

same thing with chris sale, who worked out and neftali feliz, who had to have TJ.

[70kgman]

the potential of gaining a starter is greater than losing a reliever.

same thing with chris sale, who worked out and neftali feliz, who had to have TJ.

The Bard as a starter experiment is long over. Lasted 10 starts and that is it. He has been back in the minors the past couple years as a reliever, not working on being a starter.

[antifoil]

i am saying even if he never pitches in the majors again the risk was worth it.

[bobby heenan]

i am saying even if he never pitches in the majors again the risk was worth it.

was it? the sox rotation isnt terrible right now and would be even better if clay could stay in one piece(which seems impossible).....not that the sox gave up alot...but they had to deal for bailey and hanrahan.....they had their closer staring them right in the face.....and they had successfully converted him from a starter with issues to a dominate reliever....

[antifoil]

yeah a starter gives you 3 times the innings than a reliever. good clubs don't overpay for relievers. even bard as a average starter is better than him as top 15 reliever. you get way more value out of him as a player.

the red sox got fleeced by the astros by trading jed lowrie for melancon then in typical red sox fashion over reacted to a bad start to the season by him. then they sold him cheap getting an overpaid player in hanrahan for melancon and 3 other players. their front office got tricked by the "proven" closer fallacy, and now have two overpaid relievers.

i mean the pirates just put a 36 year old guy in the closer role that has no one had heard of before the season. they should try to scam the red sox again for him.

[bobby heenan]

yeah a starter gives you 3 times the innings than a reliever. good clubs don't overpay for relievers. even bard as a average starter is better than him as top 15 reliever. you get way more value out of him as a player.

the red sox got fleeced by the astros by trading jed lowrie for melancon then in typical red sox fashion over reacted to a bad start to the season by him. then they sold him cheap getting an overpaid player in hanrahan for melancon and 3 other players. their front office got tricked by the "proven" closer fallacy, and now have two overpaid relievers.

i mean the pirates just put a 36 year old guy in the closer role that has no one had heard of before the season. they should try to scam the red sox again for him.

i do understand your starter vs reliever point.....my thing is...he was drafted as a starter and it wasnt working....they converted him and then thought they could convert him back....sometimes you have to realize he is what he is.....he was comfortable and doing his thing....now look at him....you cant help but wonder what his value would be if he had never converted back....probably alot more than it is now

[antifoil]

yeah that is how the yankees screwed up joba.

we don't know what the scouts and GM talked about with this move. if they are any kind of advanced front office, they put percentage chances on the outcomes then wade their options. i am sure they talked to the player and generally gathered enough data we have no clue about, so even if it didn't work out doesn't mean it wasn't the right decision.

to say it was a bad decision, you would need to have insight in to the methodology the club used rather than the result.

[bobby heenan]

yeah that is how the yankees screwed up joba.

we don't know what the scouts and GM talked about with this move. if they are any kind of advanced front office, they put percentage chances on the outcomes then wade their options. i am sure they talked to the player and generally gathered enough data we have no clue about, so even if it didn't work out doesn't mean it wasn't the right decision.

to say it was a bad decision, you would need to have insight in to the methodology the club used rather than the result.

totally agree....all i can say is when it was announced i told my father and friends who are sox fans "i dont like it"

[Big Bear]

I say bring his ass back up to the big leagues and let him start...

[Monitor-Tan]

Guy can't throw a strike to save his life anymore. Has an ERA around 7 and 2.37 WHIP in AA this year, averages almost 2 walks per inning.

70K will tell you, I would so back him up at +money!

[Big Bear]

The Red Sox cut Bard and he has been picked up on
waivers by the lowly Chicago Cubs...


Talk about a career that took a nose dive.

[BennyBigNuts]

The Red Sox cut Bard and he has been picked up on
waivers by the lowly Chicago Cubs...


Talk about a career that took a nose dive.

Rosenthal reminds me of Bard.
Has a sick arm, possibly one of gthe livest in MLB behind chapman right now.
That was Bard when he came up.
Thought he was gonna be huge.

I still say Rosenthal becomes a great closer. But then again, I thought Bard was gonna take Papplebons spot and he never came through.

[747planes]

The guy used to considered the Red Sox next closer

Nippon monster deserves to be the closer of redsox until he retires.

[unusialsusp5]

he caught steve blass disease. go back 40 years if you don't remember or know what happened to the pirates best starter i believe after 1971 season. you cannot recover from steve blass disease.