[M@ximo]

wow.... close the account and not explanation about what ''they did wrong''??.. that is amaizing...

[SBR Lou]

SBR may not know the result themselves, as I doubt Betfair involved them in the mediation process.

While we still prod for answers, mainly we request they give the player a reasonable explanation for their actions. Saying "your account is closed" and wiping away all funds without even alluding to the player's violation isn't acceptable.

I don't think that it's ethical to not give the player the opportunity to defend himself, even if he's caught red-handed, tell him why he's a goner. Then if he has a problem with that, let him ask for a second opinion and take his case up with the "IBAS" - since BetFair won't divulge information due to its data protection act.

[kkkkk]

well thats something very interesting, waiting for more news.

[Champi]

I agree betFair should provide proofs-They are very serious exchange and organisation and i suppose there is good reason for this activity.
BTW before month i make cashout of 98,5K without problem

[purecarnagge]

While we still prod for answers, mainly we request they give the player a reasonable explanation for their actions. Saying "your account is closed" and wiping away all funds without even alluding to the player's violation isn't acceptable.

I don't think that it's ethical to not give the player the opportunity to defend himself, even if he's caught red-handed, tell him why he's a goner. Then if he has a problem with that, let him ask for a second opinion and take his case up with the "IBAS" - since BetFair won't divulge information due to its data protection act.

Then man up and hit them with a downgrade.

[mathdotcom]

3 players had their accounts zeroed. Downgrade?

I like how you apply our legal system to one of the most lawless markets on the planet

When is SBR going to create a small army and go after books that do this?

[Santo]

It's not a lawless market. Betfair operate in the UK and Australia, both countries where gambling is legal and they operate as a legitimate, tax-paying, company.

[SBR Lou]

It's not a lawless market. Betfair operate in the UK and Australia, both countries where gambling is legal and they operate as a legitimate, tax-paying, company.

You raise a good point, but the following scenario could easily unfold:

1. Book closes players account, seizes all funds & does not return deposit.
2. Book only tells player his account is closed.
3. IF player is innocent, what does he go to the IBAS and say? Likely just a reiteration of the above, coated with passion, perhaps he isn't the best writer and thus doesn't seem like he's "credible" in comparison to the sophisticated sportsbook that has some wordy reply making allegations that the player was a cheat.

How can player fairly defend himself or refute the evidence if he does not know what he's up against? It sounds like these disputes can take place on a playing field that isn't level. I don't expect BetFair to violate their hush code or data protection act in addressing SBR. What I expect is for them to elaborate to the player on why his funds are no longer his; unless you believe they're correct 100% of the time - there is the possibility that the confiscation is unjust, maybe even something the player could reasonably explain himself.

[Santo]

Regardless of the way the player expresses himself, he would get an explanation (if not his money) from invoking IBAS or the Gambling Commission. Heck, if he follows the process he can take it to the small claims court and get a legal ruling... I still maintain that the fact that a player invokes SBR rather than the due process is probably significant.

Should Betfair have told the players what was happening? Certainly. Did the players have options to get an explanation when they didn't? Yes. But those options weren't SBR.

[Ace_of_Spades]

well thats something very interesting, waiting for more news.

Unlikely to get anything at this pace. I believe the player(s) have done something quite serious to have brought Betfair to do such a thing. Maybe they are involved in match fixing and of course (example), the players will act dumb and not give the full story on what they did if anything wrong that is.

If you do something seriously wrong than Betfair should have a right to not respond and take action without response.

Don't try and fuk them.

[SBR Lou]

If you do something seriously wrong than Betfair should have a right to not respond and take action without response.

Don't try and fuk them.

That sounds well and good - until it happens to you.

A sportsbook's track record doesn't change the fact that there are still humans running it. Hopefully we learn more details about these cases.

[davidchong]

no problems betfair from here.many deposit daily and many withdrawls daily

[Ace_of_Spades]

That sounds well and good - until it happens to you.

A sportsbook's track record doesn't change the fact that there are still humans running it. Hopefully we learn more details about these cases.

Unlikely. I play by the rules

[Justin7]

Regardless of the way the player expresses himself, he would get an explanation (if not his money) from invoking IBAS or the Gambling Commission. Heck, if he follows the process he can take it to the small claims court and get a legal ruling... I still maintain that the fact that a player invokes SBR rather than the due process is probably significant.

Should Betfair have told the players what was happening? Certainly. Did the players have options to get an explanation when they didn't? Yes. But those options weren't SBR.

Is a player from Russia who can barely use google translate, let alone try to speak English, going to file a Small Claims complaint? Even an IBAS complaint requires decent English to state your claim, or you'll probably get blown off. Are you serious, Santo?

[Ace_of_Spades]

Thats a huge problem in its self if he is Russian and can barely speak English.

[Justin7]

Thats a huge problem in its self if he is Russian and can barely speak English.

Are you suggesting Betfair should steal the balance from any player listing Russia as his residence?

[Ace_of_Spades]

Are you suggesting Betfair should steal the balance from any player listing Russia as his residence?

No, but a good understanding of English should be compulsory.

[Santo]

Obviously you have more facts than us, but if the amount was large enough, I'm sure the player could pay a local solicitor to write his case in English. A SC claim can now be done by mail only I believe, and IBAS certainly is, so location should have little bearing.

If the amount was small, then it's probably more concerning, as there are fewer likely reasons for confiscation, but from the sense of the posts this wasn't the impression I got.

We've had this debate before, but I think SBR/Posters are very fixed in the offshore mindset, when a completely different approach is required to regulation questions in the legalised industries.

[kkkkk]

Unlikely to get anything at this pace. I believe the player(s) have done something quite serious to have brought Betfair to do such a thing. Maybe they are involved in match fixing and of course (example), the players will act dumb and not give the full story on what they did if anything wrong that is.

If you do something seriously wrong than Betfair should have a right to not respond and take action without response.

Don't try and fuk them.

give me a break man. fixing for 500 USD ? there were a lot evidences back in Davydenko case, where 4 people won few milions, and as i know they didnt do anythinkg. and we speak here about 500 $ in comparison with 4 M. Betfair didnt act if some players didnt hurt them personaly. So i guess in this its all about playing roullete/casinos and cheating somehow, or betting on combos.

[kkkkk]

one thing i cant understand here : why betfair risk their reputation for 500 $? a company with turnover hundreds of millions?

[Hareeba!]

one thing i cant understand here : why betfair risk their reputation for 500 $? a company with turnover hundreds of millions?

the prime concern for Betfair is keeping their nose clean by avoiding any hint of being used by criminals or fixers .. that would make it nigh on impossible for them to be accepted in jurisdictions they are hoping to one day get licenses

we saw in Australia how the entrenched elements opposing their bid to get licensed tried to smear them with loads of unfounded allegations but weren't able to stop them in the end

they will bend over backwards to be seen to be compliant with all local laws and regulations so I really can't see them "stealing" player funds

for example, how many other books outside of Australia respect and actively police the ban on betting live on sport?

[Ace_of_Spades]

give me a break man. fixing for 500 USD ? there were a lot evidences back in Davydenko case, where 4 people won few milions, and as i know they didnt do anythinkg. and we speak here about 500 $ in comparison with 4 M. Betfair didnt act if some players didnt hurt them personaly. So i guess in this its all about playing roullete/casinos and cheating somehow, or betting on combos.

It was an example. We can keep debating this topic, but we have not the information Justin has, and he won't release due to confidentiality and players rights. I do believe the players have made the mistake and may not be telling the entire story correctly perhaps. Betfair are usually pretty good with disputes.

[skrtelfan]

Does the IBAS act as anything other than in the pocket of the bookmaker? From what little I know about them, they always rule in favor of the bookmaker except in the most egregious disputes. The one I remember well is after Canbet retroactively voided college football CPs, they ruled in Canbet's favor.

[Monk]

Does the IBAS act as anything other than in the pocket of the bookmaker? From what little I know about them, they always rule in favor of the bookmaker except in the most egregious disputes. The one I remember well is after Canbet retroactively voided college football CPs, they ruled in Canbet's favor.

IMO IBAS is one of the most complaint-friendly gambling regulation bodies. I know a lot of cases, where they ruled against (biggest) bookies in 50-50 cases and even some crazy rulings in favor of the customer.

There is no way BF would have taken the money without a good reason and there is no way IBAS would let that happen. My opinion is, that people with confiscated money have done some serious ****, probably against "normal" legislation, let alone gambling T&C.

As for not telling the guys why they took the money - they did, it's just them not telling the truth. I don't have any info on those cases, I just think out loud. I have read so many lies today on this forum, coming from poor 18-year old Eastern European girls, betting thousands on strange games with her teenage friend on same IP (claiming it's a free bet birthday gift from her grandma)... let's face it, guys. Amongst gamblers we can find some of the most disturbing and deceiving examples of human mind. Who here has never done anything against T&C he has accepted? I know I'm not raising my hand...

[WILD WEST]

It will only get worse, the market can't support all the Betfair and Bwin out there so they have to steal money to stay in business. The reputable companies (I use Ladbrokes, before PartyBets, PartyBets paid me every time in 48hrs money was in the bank no BS, I made over a 100 football bets with PartyBets and wired out about 15 times, no problem so I moved to Ladbrokes not because PartyBets were no good but because they didn't offer me a bonus I knew I deserve after losing 10000$ in few days) will never steal players money because they have a long term strategy to grow the brand's recognition and reputation. In the recession economy they will hardly break even or stay very little in the green but they will not steal, because they know that a good brand is already worth many, many millions.
But companies like Betfair scam, Bwin scam and other fraudulent sport betting and fraudulent software online casinos don't have the same forward looking strategy. for them the business is right here, right now. They know they will never become another Ladbrokes or another William Hill so they want to enrich insiders by a fraudulent way, by stealing winners and players money, by closing profitable accounts.
And they give a **** what we think of them or what Justin7 tells about their fraudulent activity, they want to steal money from as many people as possible in as short time as possible, because they are smart and understant that in the next 10 years their Betfair scam, Bwin scam websites will be gone and they will be either dead or in jail, serving sentences for money laundering and fraud.
All this offshore jurisdictions are corrupted, gambling license in Grenada I think cost $50,000 a year so there is no reputation, there is no trust. It's all scam and corruption, nobody in this offshore jurisdictions cares about it, they get bribes and shut the ****.
BOTTOM LINE:
Stick only with very, very reputable betting companies and play only in real casinos in Monte Carlo (been threre), Bade Baden (been there), Las Vegas (havn't been there), Atlantic City (not been there) etc.
You want to bet on sports, no problem. Find the best book with platinum reputation and bet there, or find 5 such books and open the 5 accounts to decrease risk and never give a **** about Betfair scam and Bwin scam in your life. This is what I did when I opened Ladbrokes account, I never looked back to bwin who stole $1000 from me. It was $1000 lesson that teached my how not to lose $10,000 in the future when some other Bwin scam ot Betfair scam dingo on cocaine will steal my money to buy drugs or get a hooker with AIDS virus. Let them die in fear and in jail with syphilis and AIDS alone in their cells with horror dreams. Stay away from all this junk, go only for 5 stars books with 5 stars history.

[Jontheman]

Er, Betfair isn't an "offshore" book at all. Lads and Hills close (or limit to peanuts) accounts of anyone with a clue.

[Monk]

Stay away from all this junk, go only for 5 stars books with 5 stars history.

The problem is, that there are no 5 stars bookies. It is all relative and it's all subjective. There are many people that had bad experience with Ladbrokes as well. There is no single company on this planet, that everyone would be happy with. That is a guarantee.

[Toit]

And they give a **** what we think of them or what Justin7 tells about their fraudulent activity, they want to steal money from as many people as possible in as short time as possible [...]

Betfair is taking a pretty long time to steal everybody's money.
Guess there's something wrong with their business model.

[Ruifgalmeida]

Betfair is taking a pretty long time to steal everybody's money.
Guess there's something wrong with their business model.

why are you saying that? did they do anything to you?

[trumpdown]

Nah..he's being facetious.

[Ace_of_Spades]

If you don't like Betfair, then go with Betdaq.

[jackkkk2009]

go to matchbook instead of betunfair..

[purecarnagge]

how about betyourscrewed?

[Toit]

If you don't like Betfair, then go with Betdaq.

It's not really an option, liquidity 'n all..

[20Four7]

Justin whatever happened with this case.

It seems odd no further discussion took place