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We can go ahead and compare Kobe to the other People your saying he's better than as well, but it will just end the same. You being proven wrong by all the numbers and you throwing a hissy fit.
Which, is quite comical looking at your first post in this thread, "Look at his FG percentage BRO, thats all that matters" Seems you only like the numbers when they agree with what you think. Shocking.
Goodnight
Proven wrong by numbers? come on man ur just messin around with Goat right?
you want to talk numbers? Post the stats of Shaq's best year and I'll post Kobe's best year. The stats won't even be close.Originally Posted by zsr
Your opinion means absolutely nothing. Period. Kobe is not top 15 all time, Shaq is top 10 all time, and the most dominant player in his prime. Period.
Your posting your opinion. Im posting actual factual data that we have.
Your also the guy who said Kobe is the best mid range player of all time, right? Sigh. Ill spare you that embarrassment because you know your wrong, but lets just talk Kobe vs Shaq real quick, shall we?
Shaq with the Lakers put up 27 and 12, while shooting 58 percent. Unheard of dominance which he continued in Miami putting up 20 and 10 on 60! percent.
Kobe, on the otherhand, has put up 25, on 45% shooting(which is heavily inflated because of the first 1/4 of this season) with 5 boards and 5 assists.
We can talk playoffs if you want, shaq putting up 30 and 15 on 58% shooting, while Kobe's shooting percentage goes down?
So, what we have here is once again you trying to convince yourself your right. Even funnier, you started this argument with look at the field goal percentages chief!!
Then once i posted those, you run and hide, and go back too, "I know basketball bro!!" Trust me bro!!"
Still waiting for a reply to this. Now were talking a 1 year sample? Gilbert arenas is a top 5 all time player then. Best scorer of his generation right?
Last edited by zsr; 12-15-12 at 01:37 AM.
Bryant scored 36 in a season. End of thread.
Yes, lets talk numbers. Finally. LOL at 1 year sample. Your an idiot. We have a 10+ year sample right here.
shaq with the Lakers put up 27 and 12, while shooting 58 percent. Unheard of dominance which he continued in Miami putting up 20 and 10 on 60! percent.
Kobe, on the otherhand, has put up 25, on 45% shooting(which is heavily inflated because of the first 1/4 of this season) with 5 boards and 5 assists.
We can talk playoffs if you want, shaq putting up 30 and 15 on 58% shooting, while Kobe's shooting percentage goes down?
Please tell me your a fuking elaborate troll. Jesus.
Dwight Howard shoots over 50% every year. If you don't shoot 55% as a center in the nba you're not gonna be playing very long. 55% for a starting all-star center is average, buddy.
This isn't even Bryant's best year
30 points per game
7 rebounds
6 assists
2 steals
That's over 82 games.
Thanks
Dwight is the most dominant big man since Shaq, and even he hasnt been able to sustain dominance near a level shaq did. Lol at 55% is very average
Show me 10+ years of 28 and 12, on 58-60% shooting. Please. Anywhere. Since Shaq is barely above average right, buddy?
Shit, even your 1 year sample of Kobe vs Shaq is a joke because shaq put up 30 and 13 while shooting 60 percent TWICE! Kobe put up 35 while shooting 45% and grabbing 5 boards?
If we only post points scored, with no efficiency, we can make anybody look good. Even Iverson.
This is the last post that needs to be in this thread.
Yes, lets talk numbers. Finally. LOL at 1 year sample. Your an idiot. We have a 10+ year sample right here.
shaq with the Lakers put up 27 and 12, while shooting 58 percent. Unheard of dominance which he continued in Miami putting up 20 and 10 on 60! percent.
Kobe, on the otherhand, has put up 25, on 45% shooting(which is heavily inflated because of the first 1/4 of this season) with 5 boards and 5 assists.
We can talk playoffs if you want, shaq putting up 30 and 15 on 58% shooting, while Kobe's shooting percentage goes down?
Done. Thanks chief. Its not close.
Shaq's 17th year in the NBA:Dwight is the most dominant big man since Shaq, and even he hasnt been able to sustain dominance near a level shaq did. Lol at 55% is very average
Show me 10+ years of 28 and 12, on 58-60% shooting. Please. Anywhere. Since Shaq is barely above average right, buddy?
Shit, even your 1 year sample of Kobe vs Shaq is a joke because shaq put up 30 and 13 while shooting 60 percent TWICE! Kobe put up 35 while shooting 45% and grabbing 5 boards?
If we only post points scored, with no efficiency, we can make anybody look good. Even Iverson.
12 points, 6.7 boards, 1.5 assists, 1.2 blocks
Kobe's 17th year....enough said
Oh wait, Shaq went to college right? So what did Shaq average in his 13th year?
17.3 points, 7.4 boards, 2 assists, 1.4 blocks
Is this a joke? Another one year sample at the end of Shaqs career, where, as you leave out of course, he shot OVER 60%.Shaq's 17th year in the NBA:
12 points, 6.7 boards, 1.5 assists, 1.2 blocks
Kobe's 17th year....enough said
Oh wait, Shaq went to college right? So what did Shaq average in his 13th year?
17.3 points, 7.4 boards, 2 assists, 1.4 blocks
You are a fuking idiot. Every single thing you said in this thread has been disproven by numbers. Period.
After me showing you the way to basketball reference, you now have a good start on learning about the game. Take your time. Check out the other all time greats pages. Then move on to the advanced stats. Your opinion on your beloved Kobe will quickly change.
Thanks for playing chief.
13th season was the end of Shaq's career? Kobe was just getting warmed up in his 13th year
And fuking lol at this being your response to being completely buried by everything in this thread.13th season was the end of Shaq's career? Kobe was just getting warmed up in his 13th year
"Oh yeah, well Kobe is gonna play longer BRO"
Just fuking lol.
Thanks chief. Class is over for today, kid.
Looking back through this thread cant believe i just wasted an hour of my time on this fuking clown.
First, "Look at his FG percentage, thats all. Bye."
From there, after getting destroyed you went to, "Just look at the Points per game bro. Field goal percentage means nothing. thats all. bye"
From there, after getting destroyed, you went to, " Just look at a one season sample bro.Who cares about the rest of there careers. Thats how we show who is better"
From there, after getting destroyed, you went to, "Yeah, look at Shaqs last season in the league bro. Who cares about the other years bro. Thats how we show who is better"
Goat, you would think losing your entire bankroll last year during the NFL playoffs/first half of the NBA season(which is documented), then you going into hiding from the forum until those threads died would give you some humility. Nope.
Have you ever looked through what you post? Do you realize, in one page on your Lakers will win the west thread alone, you were proven wrong about everything having to do with basketball, and everytime, you changed the subject to how 3 years ago you won a futures bet so you know basketball? Thats one fuking page alone. Then read back through this thread, and all of your other threads, everytime your proven wrong you ignore it and change the subject.
I seriously want to know what is going on in your head you can be so utterly clueless, and at the end of the day be convinced your right, even when its clear your not? Do you a have a deep rooted ego/insecurity problem and this is how you deal with it? By never acknowledging when your wrong and quickly changing the subject to something else?
I realize you will do the same thing you always do when you respond to this and change the subject to something else. maybe we have an SBR psychiatrist that is familiar with this kind of behavior and can respond. Even regular internet trolls arent quite as bad as you.
Last edited by zsr; 12-15-12 at 02:37 AM.
You cannot compare the FG% of a player who plays predominantly under the basket and a guard, thats absurd. Guards shoot so many 3's and mid range shots vs Dunks and layups for centers. Saying that Shaq is better than Kobe because of field goal % is the same as saying Dwight Howard goes 7/10 so why not let him shoot 20 times and he'll go 14/20. If you look @ the list of top FG% shooters ever the top 50 are pretty much all Centers or power forwards because they play close to the basket, but they are not the 50 best players ever right
We could talk true shooting percentage and eFG%, which shaq still has the advantage in, but i know he doesnt know advanced metrics so i tried to keep it basic for him. Even so, he's just trolled the whole thread with "Oh yeah, everything says im wrong, but im right! cuz i said so!"
We take all the numbers as a whole, and what we get, is a pretty clear point that Shaq was a better player than kobe, and kobe is nowhere near as good as all of his fans think he is. The only people arguing here are Kobe fans.
We cant compare kobe to the all time greats just because blind statement like "5 rings brooo" " he was so clutch broo"
Carmelo Anthony is a more effecient scorer and better rebounder than kobe, not to mention significantly better in "clutch time" (20%+)
Is Carmelo a top 5 all time player?
The advanced stat movement in basketball is awesome and allows us to appreciate the all time greats, MJ, Magic, LBJ, KD, Shaq, Duncan, etc. And it allows us to see that there is no reason for kobe to be mentioned in the same sentence with any of these guys. Even the modern guys like LBJ and Durant are hyper efficient and light years ahead of Kobe.
Last edited by zsr; 12-15-12 at 04:05 AM.
kobe is a ball hog who clogs up his own offense. He is the sole reason the lakers will lose. He needs to let Nash runt he point and resign himself to being a role player, or the lakers are out in 1 round.
Looking at any measure of shooting % is irrelevant between Shaq and Kobe in all fairness because of the type of shots they take, e.g. under the basket vs mid range etc. Yes true shooting % makes Shaq and Kobe closer (.58 vs .55 career) but still this is very misleading; remember Shaqs best years true shooting % wise occurred in his final year in Boston as well as his years in Phoenix; during his Laker years (incl Championship years) he was often bellow his career average but theres no doubt he was a better player @ the Lakers.
I mean yes adjusted shooting % gives a better measure but there will always be a bias in shooting stats toward centers and forwards as shown by the fact that Tyson Chander, Nene, Amar'e and Dwight all have better true shooting career stats than Manu, Ray Allen and Kevin Durant.
Don't know why your bringing Carmelo into this since he's clearly an inferior player to Kobe. He's a better rebounder because hes a forward and he's 6,8 230lbs vs Kobes 6,6 200lbs. He's been past the first round of the playoffs once in 10 seasons, has never made it higher than the All NBA 2nd team (which he did once) and plays ZERO defense vs Kobes 9 time all 1st team defense; defense of course being the other 1/2 of the entire sport which you fail to address at all in your player comparisons while focusing entirely on offensive stats. Having said this back to offence: I don't know where you get your "more effecient scorer stat" from because he averages less points in the same ave mins for a career and has almost the exact same FG% as kobe while still being a worse 3pt and FT shooter (in fairness not by a ton tho), and never averaged over 29ppg over a season.
You talk alot about efficiency but often efficiency is a function of environment as much as it is about an individual players abilities. Often ppl are able to be efficient scorers because they get open looks or good lanes to the basket which are a result of well run offence as well as other ppl on their team drawing the attention of the defense. Kobe does not have this luxury on the current Lakers team (with Gasol and Nash out), as a result his stats will always make him seem less efficient then he actually is or could be, which is why this season in terms of his performance personally is a testament to his ability since he though hes the only really offensive weapon on the Lakers team how can create his own offence and surrounded by mediocre offensive players he is still able to produce one of his best offensive years to date.
Im gonna keep the answers short since its quite obvious Shaq is the better player and your arguing because your a Kobe fan but:
Obviously we can throw the eFG% examples you posted out because of sample size. Tyson and Nene shooting an insane percentage scoring 10 a game is meaningless and you know that. If they shot that same percentage while posting numbers like Shaq for 10+ years, they would be all time greats too.
Carmelo is a better offensive player than Kobe by just basic FG% alone or True Shooting and eFG%, kobe has him by a hair in the advanced stats but thats because he's having his most efficient year by far this season.
Not sure how you can say Carmelo is an inferior player to Kobe, if we switched the situations they were put into and you put Melo with the most dominant player of all time in his prime, you dont think he wins 3 rings? Shaq put up 30 and 15 on 56% in the playoffs when they won championships. Then if you gave Melo, Pau in his prime and Lamar/Bynum, plus an elite wing defender in Ariza or Ron, he wont win a championship?
And of course you know kobe getting selected to 1st team defense is a joke so we wont go there. Yes, in his prime he was a + defender.
Its just clear that Kobe is closer to Melo than he is to any of the top 5-10 all time. Thats painfully obvious and im sure you can see that even though you wont admit it.
He's still a top 15 player all time which is pretty clear as well.
Im gonna quit posting in this thread.
Goat, you were buried once again on every single topic much like you always do when you try to play NBA expert, and again you simply acted like a child and said, "im right cuz i said so" Hopefully you take this as a learning experience, like when you lost your entire roll in a 4 week span and went into hiding. Shaq is a better player. Period. Done. Facts are facts. Thanks for playing chief.
All the other Kobe fans, its pretty clear he's getting by on his false reputation of being clutch (he's not), improving his play in the playoffs (he doesnt) being a warrior, win at all costs guy, etc all the while quitting on his team in a playoff series against the Suns and blaming everyone else.
The numbers dont stack up against the other all time greats, current players or past, whether basic metrics or advanced. Its not even close.
"but 5 ringggsss brooo"
Last edited by zsr; 12-15-12 at 07:58 AM.
What would shaqs numbers been if he hadnt played with a ball hog? Justa norma run of the mill guard? Steve Nash type guy?
Kobe would have maybe one ring without Shaq in those first 4 tries. Shaq with ANYONE would have won t least 3 because Kobe cost them 2 all by himself.
Stats are meaningless in basketball so trying to cite them and compare them shows that the so called NBA 'expert' doesnt really know shit.
Originally laughed at the title to this thread, but it's a little ridiculous. Obviously in the games they've lost if he scored less than he did they still would have lost. Kobe is not the problem, he's playing better than expected. Dwight not knowing how to shoot a FT and their D is the problem.....
really? So he was 9 for 29 last night. If Meeks isnt 9-14 and 3-7 from the 3 how many more shots does Kobe take? 7 or 8? So he takes the ball out of Meeks hand, and into his. Meeks would go 4 of 7 and 2 of 3 say. So he would go from 24 points to 10. Kobe would go 11 of 37, and score 34 points instead of 30. Thats a 10 point swing and lakers lose.
THATS how you calculate it out. Meeks took it upon himself, BECAUSE he made them he actually got the ball back a few time, had he not he wouldnt have seen it again. Kobe Bryant is the ONLY guy on that team allowed to shoot after they miss. Even Dwight Howard, even though he was 4-8 he missed a couple he never saw the ball again, plus theyre afraid he might have to make a free throw. Artest gets a little leeway because he is crazy and I am sure everyone is afraid of him, so he can chuck it around if he wants. But no one ele on the team (right now) gets that benefit.
If meeks doesnt have the best night of his career, Lakers lose again, to the Wizards.
What little bit of media I watched last night makes it out like Lakers just swept an old school Texas road trip and beat Dallas, Hou, and the Spurs, and for good measure stopped in OKC and beat them at home.
And of course it is all about Kobe Bryant. Which is typical, guy was a joke, 9 for 29, had he not been given 5 or 6 phantom free throws he would have scored 25 points on 29 shots, yeah real efficient.
Everyone who is either a Lakers fan or bet the lakers can thank Jody Meeks for all of it, if he has a 'typical' night, for him (8 points on 3 of 11 shooting), Lakers lose by 5 or more.
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