1. #36
    d2bets
    d2bets's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-10-05
    Posts: 39,773
    Betpoints: 21413

    There is skill, HOWEVER among players that do know how to play, then it becomes mostly luck. There aren't a select few that know how to play so much better than everyone else. It's not that difficult. However, if you don't know how to play, luck is probably not gonna help you for very long.

  2. #37
    milwaukee mike
    milwaukee mike's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-22-07
    Posts: 26,906
    Betpoints: 7585

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCentaur View Post
    No way pal
    if your buy-in is roughly the same as your sports bet size, i would agree with sam odom.

    much easier to lose 6 straight buy-ins at poker than lose 6 straight bets, although both will happen from time to time.

  3. #38
    milwaukee mike
    milwaukee mike's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-22-07
    Posts: 26,906
    Betpoints: 7585

    Quote Originally Posted by d2bets View Post
    There is skill, HOWEVER among players that do know how to play, then it becomes mostly luck. There aren't a select few that know how to play so much better than everyone else. It's not that difficult. However, if you don't know how to play, luck is probably not gonna help you for very long.
    we should also distinguish between live poker and online.
    yes there are online tells, but mostly it's piecing together betting patterns.

    i play in a live wednesday tournament, and i have strong tells on almost everyone, so the skill factor comes a lot more into play for me in live poker. especially if it's against guys i know.

  4. #39
    TheCentaur
    TheCentaur's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 06-28-11
    Posts: 8,108
    Betpoints: 68

    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    if your buy-in is roughly the same as your sports bet size, i would agree with sam odom.

    much easier to lose 6 straight buy-ins at poker than lose 6 straight bets, although both will happen from time to time.
    I play live no limit and I have never, ever lost 6 straight buy ins and I'm not that great. I have lost 6 straight sports bets more times than I can count.

  5. #40
    milwaukee mike
    milwaukee mike's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-22-07
    Posts: 26,906
    Betpoints: 7585

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCentaur View Post
    I play live no limit and I have never, ever lost 6 straight buy ins and I'm not that great. I have lost 6 straight sports bets more times than I can count.
    wow that is amazing

    i have lost 6 straight buy-ins in the same 24 hour period more than a couple times

  6. #41
    TheCentaur
    TheCentaur's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 06-28-11
    Posts: 8,108
    Betpoints: 68

    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    wow that is amazing

    i have lost 6 straight buy-ins in the same 24 hour period more than a couple times
    I buy in for 100 times the bb maybe ur buy ins are smaller.

  7. #42
    milwaukee mike
    milwaukee mike's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-22-07
    Posts: 26,906
    Betpoints: 7585

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCentaur View Post
    I buy in for 100 times the bb maybe ur buy ins are smaller.
    for 3/5 no limit i usually buy in for $400 (min is 200/max 600). omaha8 pl 5/10 i buy in $1000

    and quite often the games are so crazy here that every 3/5 hold em hand is raised to 25 at a bare minimum pre-flop

  8. #43
    BIGDAY
    angelman.org
    BIGDAY's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 02-17-10
    Posts: 48,241
    Betpoints: 24854

    There is skill. Skill that I do not have.

    They call me guppie and short stack.

  9. #44
    BIGDAY
    angelman.org
    BIGDAY's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 02-17-10
    Posts: 48,241
    Betpoints: 24854

    I also like going all in on 2/7 offs.

    Because when it hits, people get really mad.

  10. #45
    daneblazer
    Most Well Rounded POY
    daneblazer's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 09-14-08
    Posts: 27,837
    Betpoints: 5652

    Anyone who thinks it's all luck likely sucks at poker.

    Anyone who thinks it's all skill is delusional.
    Nomination(s):
    This post was nominated 1 time . To view the nominated thread please click here. People who nominated: thetrinity

  11. #46
    tto827
    tto827's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 10-01-12
    Posts: 9,078
    Betpoints: 76

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGDAY View Post
    There is skill. Skill that I do not have.

    They call me guppie and short stack.
    Right there with ya.

  12. #47
    k13
    k13's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-16-10
    Posts: 17,527
    Betpoints: 1710

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCentaur View Post
    I play live no limit and I have never, ever lost 6 straight buy ins and I'm not that great. I have lost 6 straight sports bets more times than I can count.
    I can lose 6 buy ins in a row in 6 minutes but can't remember the last time I lost 6 bets in a row.

    But that's online....

  13. #48
    TheCentaur
    TheCentaur's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 06-28-11
    Posts: 8,108
    Betpoints: 68

    Quote Originally Posted by k13 View Post
    I can lose 6 buy ins in a row in 6 minutes but can't remember the last time I lost 6 bets in a row.

    But that's online....
    Yeah online is totally different I have lost 6 in a row there too

  14. #49
    MeatWad
    MeatWad's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-18-12
    Posts: 1,572
    Betpoints: 221

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCentaur View Post
    Yeah online is totally different I have lost 6 in a row there too
    Major differences is the speed of the game, soo many more hands per hour on-line. On-line players are generally much more competent, but the rake is also lower than live.

  15. #50
    thetrinity
    penetrate me to tears
    thetrinity's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 01-25-11
    Posts: 22,430
    Betpoints: 5536

    im definitely in the poker swings r bigger camp then sports bets, of course there is skill at poker, it comes out over time.

  16. #51
    yahoonino
    yahoonino's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-10-07
    Posts: 2,651
    Betpoints: 1425

    Quote Originally Posted by pokernut9999 View Post
    Sit down and play with 5 pros and let me know how you come out.........

    You will lose your ass no matter what cards you get.
    wrong , if the card running my way ,i run the pro to the poor house

  17. #52
    JayLA
    On to the next one...
    JayLA's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 09-11-12
    Posts: 7,806
    Betpoints: 1219

    Quote Originally Posted by yahoonino View Post
    wrong , if the card running my way ,i run the pro to the poor house
    Pros play mind games. I've sat down with Mizrachis and others..forgot names...and it's just the way they play. You find yourself overthinking shit and not going with your gut, kind of like sports betting cause your opponent is VEGAS.

    Pro seriously are on another realm of skill. I don't mean pro wannabees but someone who has a documented earnings profile? Forget about it. Just play small ball poker and give em respect

  18. #53
    RudyRuetigger
    Leave of absence until March Madness
    RudyRuetigger's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 08-24-10
    Posts: 64,799
    Betpoints: 53

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCentaur View Post
    I buy in for 100 times the bb maybe ur buy ins are smaller.

  19. #54
    Inspirited
    Inspirited's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 06-26-10
    Posts: 1,783
    Betpoints: 17732

    Study the game and you will realize that it's a game of skill until all players are equally skilled or no one at least has a skill advantage that can cover the rake. Those are the games you shouldn't be playing in for monetary reasons.

  20. #55
    MeatWad
    MeatWad's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-18-12
    Posts: 1,572
    Betpoints: 221

    Quote Originally Posted by Inspirited View Post
    Study the game and you will realize that it's a game of skill until all players are equally skilled or no one at least has a skill advantage that can cover the rake. Those are the games you shouldn't be playing in for monetary reasons.
    I second this especially live games with jackpot rakes during slow traffic weekday early evening times.

    That said, if you consider yourself skilled there are often adjustments that can be made to exploit games with solid tight aggressive players. Generally their double and triple barrel calling ranges are way too narrow, soo you can take down alot of small-mid pots by constantly applying pressure. Of course good players adjust and there is alot of variance when you are playing lots of pots trying to overpower TAG opponents.

    Usually better to pass on tough games and wait for loose wild types who will pay off your big hands. But I will frequently sit and play a tough game hard and fast and leave after an hour or two of bullying.

    It cannot be overemphasized enough that every hand and game is soo opponent dependent. By observing their ranges and playing style, you can usually envision a winning play that is +EV long term based on exploiting their unique tendencies.
    Last edited by MeatWad; 11-12-12 at 08:10 PM.

  21. #56
    Duff85
    Getting ready for Japball
    Duff85's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 06-15-10
    Posts: 2,920
    Betpoints: 4007

    People have zero understanding that the skill in poker, like sports betting is about getting value long term and winning them Sklansky Dollars. Of course your average SBR Tard looks at KK like he looks at Tom Brady's Patriots or the New York Yankees in sports betting. "Never should the favourite lose". Uhh yeah spastic sometimes you do lose.

  22. #57
    eberetta1
    Win some cha-ching
    eberetta1's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 03-27-09
    Posts: 1,124
    Betpoints: 12263

    You hit the nail on the head, OP. That is why there are sponsors.
    Last edited by eberetta1; 11-12-12 at 11:19 PM.

  23. #58
    MeatWad
    MeatWad's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-18-12
    Posts: 1,572
    Betpoints: 221

    Quote Originally Posted by eberetta1 View Post
    You hit the nail on the head, OP. That is why there are sponsors.
    Bad players get sponsored as well. Many of the red pros at Fulltilt were laughable compared to the lesser known internet pros.

    As far as cash games go, I would try to climb the stakes fast. Here in Miami it usually cost roughly $200 an hour in table rake/jackpot ($7 a hand max) whether you are playing 2-5 or 25-50. The relative rake has a less adverse effect at the higher limits and 1 or 2 rich spewers can fuel the entire game.

    Table selection and bum hunting save soo much time, guys will grind dead games as though they are making significant money by sitting there. What a waste when 1 lucrative table session can make 40 hours of grinding look feeble.

  24. #59
    jetsjets1028
    jetsjets1028's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 02-10-10
    Posts: 1,234
    Betpoints: 1363

    yes u got know when to hold them when to fold them and also mix ur play up with few bluffs

  25. #60
    yisman
    yisman's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 09-01-08
    Posts: 75,682
    Betpoints: 246162

    Quote Originally Posted by mynameismud View Post
    of course there will be times that you get called down, people do pick up hands sometimes, but to be a winning player, you have to know when to pick your spots. even the best in the world are wrong sometimes. the guys that make a great living in the poker world, most will tell you you its 60%-40% skill to luck.
    depends whether it's online or in person. Online means there's more of a luck element.

  26. #61
    MeatWad
    MeatWad's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-18-12
    Posts: 1,572
    Betpoints: 221

    Quote Originally Posted by yisman View Post
    depends whether it's online or in person. Online means there's more of a luck element.

    I definitely agree with you about more skill required for live play. Tougher to play live when you don't have 10k+ hands stored online in pokertracker on your opponent's tendencies. There is more information to process live, mainly tells, and more variables to consider in your opponents mannerisms/patterns. I think the availibilty of reads and the fact the players are generally less skilled, makes the live games have a bigger profitabilty edge per hand played.


    Online you can databank a significant sample size with pokertracker that allows you to make optimal mathematical plays with little uncertainty. You can visualize an opponent's range based on their past %'s as well as the likelihood they will fold to pressure. But the players tend to be slightly less exploitable soo the profit margins are tighter. I compensate for the tighter margins with added volume of hands and tables per hour on line.

  27. #62
    TheCentaur
    TheCentaur's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 06-28-11
    Posts: 8,108
    Betpoints: 68

    Quote Originally Posted by RudyRuetigger View Post
    Rudy you know I'm not talking about bs shorthanded online betpoints tables where the big stack at a 3 handed table (you) has 800x the bb, of course I short stack that crap
    Points Awarded:

    RudyRuetigger gave TheCentaur 7 SBR Point(s) for this post.


  28. #63
    raydog
    raydog's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 11-07-07
    Posts: 6,984
    Betpoints: 113

    there is no skill...gambling gods control everything...we just sit there being controlled like puppets for their amusement...always pray to and speak kindly about them

  29. #64
    lunchbawks
    NB#
    lunchbawks's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-31-10
    Posts: 12,873
    Betpoints: 173

    Poker is a skill game. Multi tabling the low stakes is free money

    Learn PLO, its great fun and most people don't know how to play

  30. #65
    rm18
    Update your status
    rm18's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 09-20-05
    Posts: 22,291
    Betpoints: 207814

    Way less swings in poker than sports betting. When I did not have much money played a ton of poker and made good money with a super low bankroll, in sports that is much harder

  31. #66
    Josherzz1
    Update your status
    Josherzz1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 11-04-12
    Posts: 109
    Betpoints: 994

    65% skill, 35% luck. Though, tournaments and cash games are different beasts. Tournaments=discipline/picking your spots/aggressiveness vs. Cash games=splashing around/solid post flop play/utilizing position. Either way, the skillful players will win more over the long haul.

  32. #67
    lunchbawks
    NB#
    lunchbawks's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-31-10
    Posts: 12,873
    Betpoints: 173

    Quote Originally Posted by Josherzz1 View Post
    65% skill, 35% luck. Though, tournaments and cash games are different beasts. Tournaments=discipline/picking your spots/aggressiveness vs. Cash games=splashing around/solid post flop play/utilizing position. Either way, the skillful players will win more over the long haul.
    Its nlh bro pretty straightforward, but longterm after 100k ha Dr your skill shows

  33. #68
    Ratpack
    Ratpack's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 02-15-12
    Posts: 4,131
    Betpoints: 1777

    poker is less swings and less outs if you play poker your basically putting down your whole bankroll at one time. At least in sports you can spread it around in multiple games. There is a lot of luck in poker but there is also a lot of variance but no one thinks of variance when they lose aces vs 7 2 at the moment in time. Sports betting at least is better to the fact that you can sit down at a poker table with a grand and lose it in your first hand and then what. In sports if your at least betting a full game you get their adernaline for what 2 to 3 hours.

  34. #69
    Josherzz1
    Update your status
    Josherzz1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 11-04-12
    Posts: 109
    Betpoints: 994

    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbawks View Post
    Its nlh bro pretty straightforward, but longterm after 100k ha Dr your skill shows

    Yes, I agree that skill wins out over time.

    Against quality players it's not as straightforward. There is more Sklansky leveling that goes on with floating and semi-bluffing now more than ever. Limit, I would say is straightforward, but no-limit has so many nuances and complexities.

  35. #70
    eberetta1
    Win some cha-ching
    eberetta1's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 03-27-09
    Posts: 1,124
    Betpoints: 12263

    Quote Originally Posted by bettilimbroke999 View Post
    The more I play the more I think its just whoever gets the cards and the only winner is the house grabbin about four bucks out of each and every pot with no risk.
    40 hands an hour the house wins 160 bucks risk free while everyone else of about equal ability fights to try and break even while losing a net 160 an hour

    Im starting to think tournaments are where its at, at least you pay your fuckin fee up front 50 dollar buyin 5 rake for instance and you are done having the house rob you, you get 30 players in a tourney that takes 4 hours and the house robs 200 for dealing instead of 640 at your typical cash game
    This newly acquired knowledge can be very expensive to acquire. Use it to your advantage.

    For me if I apply it to slots. If it eats $100 to $300 every time I play several times a month, I can continue to play the rest of my life if my income allows for the expense. An alternative would be for me to buy a $50 video game which is a hell of a lot cheaper.

    We have choices to make in life. We see the juice charged for live poker. Is it worth the entertainment.

First 123 Last
Top