1. 11-09-12 02:40 PM #1
    Ghenghis Kahn
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    why isn't there any talk about REID/KYL bill that will make offshore sites...

    virtually impossible to use by americans?

    http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-and-re...ned-ppa-19-10/

    i asked someone about this bill to someone knowledgeable and i got this reply...

    "Any online wagering sites which are not a specific carve out in the bill (licensed poker, state lottery ticket sales, legal horse race wagering, qualified intrastate remote gaming and legal skill games) will all be in the same category of illegal online gambling facilities and subject to same bill provisions. Offshore sports books are currently illegal anyway, but there will be new criminal penalties and the Bettor Forfeiture provision will apply."

    this bill will be good for poker for some states but it'll kill sites like 5Dimes, Heritage, bovada, etc...

    are you guys aware of this situation?
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  2. 11-09-12 02:53 PM #2
    daneblazer
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    Don't bills have to be listed online or available for public access? They act like they stumbled upon some buried treasure. Not sure how this will be much different than it is now. Funds are already in constant threat of seizure.

    Something like this is going to have to be passed to make playing online legal.

    I'm sure the PPA will find a way to make things worse in the mean time.
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  3. 11-09-12 03:23 PM #3
    Ghenghis Kahn
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    Quote Originally Posted by daneblazer View Post
    Don't bills have to be listed online or available for public access? They act like they stumbled upon some buried treasure. Not sure how this will be much different than it is now. Funds are already in constant threat of seizure.

    Something like this is going to have to be passed to make playing online legal.

    I'm sure the PPA will find a way to make things worse in the mean time.
    "Offshore sports books are currently illegal anyway, but there will be new criminal penalties and the Bettor Forfeiture provision will apply."

    this bill will make things much worse...
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  4. 11-09-12 03:23 PM #4
    stikymess
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    John Kyl has had such a hard on against offshore gambling, glad he is calling it a career and not seeking re-election.

    Internet gambling

    In September 2006, working with then-Congressman Jim Leach, Jon Kyl was a major Senate supporter of Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006. The Act was passed at midnight the day Congress adjourned before the 2006 elections. Prior to it being added to the bill, the gambling provisions had not been debated by any Congressional committee, although the general issue had been debated in multiple times in the past.[19] When publication of the associated regulations was delayed until June 2010, Kyl responded by denying unanimous consent to confirm the appointment of 6 nominees to the US Treasury Department, none of whom specialized on gambling issues.[20]
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  5. 11-09-12 03:24 PM #5
    stikymess
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghenghis Kahn View Post
    "Offshore sports books are currently illegal anyway, but there will be new criminal penalties and the Bettor Forfeiture provision will apply."

    this bill will make things much worse...

    Sure they will pass it in the middle of the night as usual.
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  6. 11-09-12 03:29 PM #6
    Ghenghis Kahn
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    i'm willing to bet kyl has some major skeletons in his closet. wouldn't surprise me if he is a big time pedophile...
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  7. 11-09-12 03:35 PM #7
    daneblazer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghenghis Kahn View Post
    "Offshore sports books are currently illegal anyway, but there will be new criminal penalties and the Bettor Forfeiture provision will apply."

    this bill will make things much worse...
    Yeah, that's what your guy said, that doesn't mean he's right. What can they add that would make it any worse for sites already? They scrapped the part where players can be punished.
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  8. 11-09-12 03:38 PM #8
    stikymess
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    Well more regulation could mean more books leaving, besides Tony with 5dimes, that dude will go down with the ship.
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  9. 11-09-12 03:42 PM #9
    daneblazer
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    Reid and Kyl...what an odd combo. If this bill passes, it wouldn't be a bad thing. Pave the way to get something legal. Sucks that it would be a state opt-in though. 16% tax may make it an attractive opportunity. Have fun playing against 5 other people in states like Wyoming, Delaware, Vermont, etc
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  10. 11-09-12 04:25 PM #10
    Ghenghis Kahn
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    Quote Originally Posted by daneblazer View Post
    Yeah, that's what your guy said, that doesn't mean he's right. What can they add that would make it any worse for sites already? They scrapped the part where players can be punished.
    well for one, they will go after the individuals rather than the sites themselves. whatever you have in offshore sites, they have the right to confiscate the amount. where as of right now, they can't do that. do you see the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by daneblazer View Post
    Reid and Kyl...what an odd combo. If this bill passes, it wouldn't be a bad thing. Pave the way to get something legal. Sucks that it would be a state opt-in though. 16% tax may make it an attractive opportunity. Have fun playing against 5 other people in states like Wyoming, Delaware, Vermont, etc
    online sports betting will never be legal in states other than nevada.

    i guess you haven't been paying attention with the development of this bill. the reason why reid and kyl are working together is because kyl is the leading opposition for a federal poker bill. so to appease his tight ass, the democrats told him this bill will strengthen uigea and most likely it'll get attached to a must pass bill such as the cyber security act.

    it's all a fukking game to these fukkers at our expense.
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  11. 11-09-12 04:27 PM #11
    rm18
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    Quote Originally Posted by daneblazer View Post
    Reid and Kyl...what an odd combo. If this bill passes, it wouldn't be a bad thing. Pave the way to get something legal. Sucks that it would be a state opt-in though. 16% tax may make it an attractive opportunity. Have fun playing against 5 other people in states like Wyoming, Delaware, Vermont, etc

    well if it goes through anytime soon I got no time to pull my money out, not like these books are banks with processing payouts
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  12. 11-09-12 04:50 PM #12
    SamDiamond
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    Kyl is such a dick.

    That he has so much power is f'ing disgusting. He's a right wing nutjob who thinks making sports betting illegal will save mankind from itself.
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  13. 11-09-12 04:53 PM #13
    daneblazer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghenghis Kahn View Post
    well for one, they will go after the individuals rather than the sites themselves. whatever you have in offshore sites, they have the right to confiscate the amount. where as of right now, they can't do that. do you see the difference?
    According to the link in the OP.

    The original summary of Reid/Kyl contained a vague and controversial provision: “To deter U.S. players from patronizing illegal sites, the bill makes explicit that any property involved in or traceable to a gambling transaction in violation of the new act (including winnings) is subject to forfeiture.”
    Many read this to mean that any and all US player funds at unlicensed online poker sites would be under constant threat of seizure from the government.
    Muny asserted that this language is now completely absent from the current bill draft. “It’s very clear and explicit that there are no criminal penalties for players,” Muny said. “They knew we would likely oppose a bill with player penalties and were willing to answer us on that.”

    Instead, Muny explained, the bill draft contains language that simply prohibits players from seeking restitution from the federal government if the government seizes funds from unlicensed sites or associated payment processors.
    According to that, they can not come after the players. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it or the language is included somewhere else or will be amended. I admit I haven't read the actual bill.
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  14. 11-09-12 05:02 PM #14
    daneblazer
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    For further reading when I have a spare few days...

    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...-bill-1253479/

    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...d-ppa-1258740/
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  15. 11-09-12 05:07 PM #15
    Ghenghis Kahn
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    Quote Originally Posted by daneblazer View Post
    According to the link in the OP.



    According to that, they can not come after the players. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it or the language is included somewhere else or will be amended. I admit I haven't read the actual bill.
    muny aka the engineer is wrong.
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  16. 11-09-12 05:11 PM #16
    Ghenghis Kahn
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamDiamond View Post
    Kyl is such a dick.

    That he has so much power is f'ing disgusting. He's a right wing nutjob who thinks making sports betting illegal will save mankind from itself.
    most of these conservative fukk are bunch of hypocrites. the author of uigea, bill frist, used his campaign funds, played the stock market, and lost a fortune. but obviously according to him, wall street isn't gambling.
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  17. 11-09-12 05:18 PM #17
    MUHerd37
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    They are never going to go after players. Do you realize how many of us there are? Feds aren't going to mess with players. It's like people smoking weed. The Feds don't go after some dude smoking pot, they only want big time growers and dealers. Also, they have no legal right to confiscate your winnings. These books that aren't in the U.S. don't have to hand over anything. They aren't under U.S. legal jurisdiction.
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  18. 11-09-12 05:28 PM #18
    SBR Lou
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    The proposed legislation has been discussed a few times in the SBR reports and videos. Recently Natalie spoke about it with Justin7.
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  19. 11-09-12 07:54 PM #19
    physed
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    Am I correct that all the offshore books then will not offer poker anymore. I'm sure there business in sports is more profitable than poker is
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  20. 11-09-12 07:58 PM #20
    ChalkyDog
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    Anything brought to the house by Kyl is an absolute disaster.

    So glad that ass hat is gone. Unfortunately, Jeff Flake is just as big a fukkin' moron.
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