[frogsrangers]

Government Motors: As GM shares near record low, taxpayer loss on bailout rises to $35 billion


http://news.investors.com/article/616849/201207030826/gm-bailout-taxpayer-loss-rises-as-shares-fall.htm

Government Motors Stock continues to drop

Taxpayers are further and further in the hole because of this

And yet they are doing perfectly fine enough to run retarted commercials such as the "Baseball Hotdogs Apple Pie and Chevrolet" commercial 50 times during a baseball game.

This company should have gone bankrupt, but the idiots in Washington knew this couldn't happen because their buddies at the UAW wouldn't allow it. Should have let the free market decide GM's fate. When a government picks winners and losers the taxpayers lose in the end.

The bailout for them wasn't to bail out GM but the UAW

A righteous government would dump all the GM shares and tell them they are on their own

Ford didn't get a bailout and they are doing just fine

The Chevy Volt is a disaster, I have driven a few and they are piece of crap low end cars that happen to have an electric motor. One more piece of crap taxpayers are on the hook for

I never have owned an American made car and never will

But our government will probably intercede again, they will make an "American Car Mandate" and tax you if you buy a foreign car. Just like the Obamacare mandate

Anything to please the UAW

Again, GM should have NEVER been bailed out. They put themselves in this mess, why should the taxpayers have bailed them out? In a righteous country they would have gone bankrupt, and existing companies/new companies would have taken over the marketshare. Let the free market work.

[ProfaneReality]

Really.

I agree

Too many people talk about politics here

For fuks sake people is this a sports gambling message board or a politics message board?

If you want to talk politics go to fukin CNN or something

Wonder if I went to CNN forums if they would have 95% sports gambling threads on the first page

[Thor4140]

Why would u want American families losing American jobs which this money goes right back into the economy? If u had a business in this area would u have liked GM to just fold up like a used tent and watch your business hurt in the process? This guy ran GM in the ground and got this type of money which most will never see the economy at all. Why no outrage for this guy? Getting rewarded for this type of failure and u are worried about a guy making middle class wages? Go figure.

NEW YORK -- Former General Motors Corp. Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner won't get a severance payment from the automaker, but he'll still get a pension and other benefits worth an estimated $23 million.
More national news about Rick Wagoner

In nearly 32 years with the company, Wagoner accrued pension benefits that the company valued at $22.1 million at the end of last year. The actual amount Wagoner will receive could vary because it will be paid in installments over the rest of his life. Wagoner, 56, also is entitled to $366,602 in unvested stock awards and $534,627 in deferred compensation as of Dec. 31, according to GM's annual report.
"From the perspective of the average person, most of these payouts are going to seem like a lot of money," said Alexander Cwirko-Godycki, research manager at Equilar Inc., an information services firm that specializes in researching executive compensation. "But from the perspective of executive pensions, there have been other cases where there's been a lot more money involved."
Wagoner also gets to keep about 3 million stock options, which allow him to buy GM shares at prices ranging from about $20 to $76. With GM's stock price now less than $3 per share, however, the options have little value unless the stock price reaches those levels before the options expire.
GM said early Monday that Wagoner was stepping down effective immediately, ending nearly nine years at the Detroit-based automaker's helm. Obama administration officials asked Wagoner to step aside as part of the government's plan to help the struggling automaker, and he was replaced as CEO by Fritz Henderson, the company's chief operating officer.
GM released a statement later Monday saying it was still reviewing the specifics of the compensation Wagoner would receive.
As a condition of GM's government loans, the automaker is not allowed to pay severances to departing executives. Government officials began to crack down on so called "golden parachutes" after last fall's backlash over $24 million in exit packages for the ousted chief executives of mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The severance payments were never made.
Cwirko-Godycki said the biggest factor contributing to an executive's pension is how long he works for the company and the size of his salary over the years.
From the beginning of his career at GM through the end of 2008, Wagoner received compensation totaling about $63.3 million, with $38.7 million of that coming during his years as its chief executive, Cwirko-Godycki said. The totals take into account Wagoner's base salary, cash bonus payouts, long-term incentive plan payouts, gains from stock option exercises, and other compensation.
That was before Wagoner agreed to accept a salary of $1 for 2009 as part of the automaker's restructuring plan.
Cwirko-Godycki noted that if Wagoner had left GM at the end of 2008, he could have received a severance payment as high as $17.1 million on top of his pension and other compensation. Before the government became involved in its finances, the company's policies allowed its board to award severance payments as high as 2.99 times an executive's base salary and target bonus.
Brian Tobin, midwest region practice leader for The Hay Group's executive compensation practice, said GM had already taken steps to limit how much money Wagoner could walk away with even before the government bailout.
Wagoner's base salary was rolled back in 2008, and his overall compensation was heavily tied to the company's stock performance.
In addition, Tobin said, Wagoner wasn't guaranteed any severance even before the government was involved. Most companies guarantee executives a minimum amount if they lose their jobs, but GM's potential payouts were solely at the board's discretion.
"Unfortunately for him, he's leaving the company at a time when GM's stock and the overall market are extremely depressed compared to where they were just five years ago," Tobin said.

[Thor4140]

Really.

Priceless U have to give it to these middle class haters. Hypocrites at the highest of levels.

[frogsrangers]

Why would u want American families losing American jobs which this money goes right back into the economy? If u had a business in this area would u have liked GM to just fold up like a used tent and watch your business hurt in the process? This guy ran GM in the ground and got this type of money which most will never see the economy at all. Why no outrage for this guy? Getting rewarded for this type of failure and u are worried about a guy making middle class wages? Go figure.

This line of thinking is retarted

You need to lose logic

If GM went under, its workers would be out of a job, yes

But other companies would come in and take the vacant marketshare GM left behind

Those new companies in the industry would then hire people because of their expanded marketshare

Chances are a lot of the ex GM employees who lost their jobs would be hired by these new companies

It's not like the lost GM jobs would be lost jobs forever and these people would never work again

Use some common sense

Say the Bellagio went out of business. You think the people who worked at Bellagio would be out of work forever? No, I bet that whatever new company took over the Bellagio would hire them or they would be hired on at other casinos.

[milwaukee mike]

$35 billion spent HELPING people in THIS country is better than the trillions we spend blowing up sand halfway around the world

[Thor4140]

This line of thinking is retarted

You need to lose logic

If GM went under, its workers would be out of a job, yes

But other companies would come in and take the vacant marketshare GM left behind

Those new companies in the industry would then hire people because of their expanded marketshare

Chances are a lot of the ex GM employees who lost their jobs would be hired by these new companies

It's not like the lost GM jobs would be lost jobs forever and these people would never work again

Use some common sense

Say the Bellagio went out of business. You think the people who worked at Bellagio would be out of work forever? No, I bet that whatever new company took over the Bellagio would hire them or they would be hired on at other casinos.

i get it Bellagio has the same type or business model that can pack up and go overseas like GM does. What a terrible analogy.

[frogsrangers]

$35 billion spent HELPING people in THIS country is better than the trillions we spend blowing up sand halfway around the world

Why don't we just bail out EVERY company about to go bankrupt then?

Uncle Yang's Vietnamese Kitchen down the street from where I live just went out of business, I guess we need the federal government to bail them out, how dare they lose their jobs and business! Heartless government we have not bailing them out!

The $35 billion wasted sure as hell isn't helping me or OTHER taxpayers LOSING money on this failed bailout

[Thor4140]

Why don't we just bail out EVERY company about to go bankrupt then?

Uncle Yang's Vietnamese Kitchen down the street from where I live just went out of business, I guess we need the federal government to bail them out, how dare they lose their jobs and business! Heartless government we have not bailing them out!

The $35 billion wasted sure as hell isn't helping me or OTHER taxpayers LOSING money on this failed bailout

where u coming up with that bogus number 35 billion wasted. Did Rush say that today?

[frogsrangers]

where u coming up with that bogus number 35 billion wasted. Did Rush say that today?

Read the article I posted

I see reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points

[rkelly110]

That authors opinion is exactly that. He's as ill informed as you are for reading it. I've seen some of your calm
intelligent posts, why dumb yourself down?

So in your view, no one including corps or banks should have received any govt assistance? Let them crumble
into a worthless pile of shit?

Before spewing, copy and pasting worthless shit, how about putting yourself into the equation. If I was an auto worker,
if I was unemployed, if I lost my home, if I can't feed my family what do I do? Would you turn down money from the
govt you paid in, because you're too proud? Let me call you a hypocrite now.

Do you realize what the domino effect would've been if the govt didn't step in? Did you not see the domino effect
when corps started laying off? Do you not see the domino effect with the worlds economy?

Stop trying to please your Repub friends in here and use your head for once. Please!

[frogsrangers]

That authors opinion is exactly that. He's as ill informed as you are for reading it. I've seen some of your calm
intelligent posts, why dumb yourself down?

So in your view, no one including corps or banks should have received any govt assistance? Let them crumble
into a worthless pile of shit?

Before spewing, copy and pasting worthless shit, how about putting yourself into the equation. If I was an auto worker,
if I was unemployed, if I lost my home, if I can't feed my family what do I do? Would you turn down money from the
govt you paid in, because you're too proud? Let me call you a hypocrite now.

Do you realize what the domino effect would've been if the govt didn't step in? Did you not see the domino effect
when corps started laying off? Do you not see the domino effect with the worlds economy?

Stop trying to please your Repub friends in here and use your head for once. Please!

You are delusional

I opposed ALL bailouts. Any bailout is bad. Government's role is not to pick winners and losers. Let the free market work

Let me explain to you leftists free market for dummies: When one company/corporation goes under, other companies come in to take the marketshare abandoned by the bankrupt company.

If I worked for GM I would not have a self pity party and instead go look for another job.

You leftists all act like if GM didn't get bailed out than their workers would never be able to work another job anywhere ever again. They would be unemployed for life. You also all act like had GM went under than our economy would be permanently screwed and never recover.

DOING NOTHING is what should happen. Your domino effect fearmongering is exactly the fearmongering that was used to get us into this mess. No, it would not cause an economic catstrophe.

[QuantumLeap]

Read the article I posted

I see reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points

That's his answer to anything he doesn't agree with. It's either "I'll be Rush told you that" or "You've been watching too much Fox News".

[frogsrangers]

That's his answer to anything he doesn't agree with. It's either "I'll be Rush told you that" or "You've been watching too much Fox News".

As opposed to left wing fear mongering?

The dumbass politicians in Washington and the media acted like World War 3 and the apocolypse would happen if GM went under

In reality, it wouldn't have been that bad. The markets might have taken an initial hit, but would have recovered AND taxpayers wouldn't be $35 billion in the hole

But whats $35 billion these days when our government spends like a drunken sailor and prints money at a record pace....

[Deuce]

Driving a 2010 Cadillac DTS now. Top notch craftsmanship.

[frogsrangers]

Driving a 2010 Cadillac DTS now. Top notch craftsmanship.

Compared to what? Chevys?

I have valeted part time for the past 6 years and while Cadillacs are not bad Chevys, GMCs, Pontiacs and Saturns have to be the biggest pieces of crap ever made.

[rkelly110]

Well, we're pretty much not doing anything now. How's the economy doing?

Most foreign auto manufacturers are having their product made here. Will you buy from any of them?
Over 1 m auto workers would have been affected if they would be allowed to fail. Add that to the already
unemployed would not have been pretty.

Not buying USA products means you are part of the problem, not the solution.

The domino's already fell, there's no fear mongering. Now we have to set them back up and hopefully
not knock them down again.

Who knows, what you say, might've been right. Maybe the next go around when your boys, Romney and company take over.

[Thor4140]

That's his answer to anything he doesn't agree with. It's either "I'll be Rush told you that" or "You've been watching too much Fox News".

Really? I think that is the first time i said "Rush tell u that" in a thread. I guess u also hate that those American jobs were saved but have no problem with a giant severance package that went to a guy who ran the company into the ground. Why don't u asshole ever care where the big loss of tax revenue goes? How about the billions(handouts) the oil companies get when they are making record profits? Why do these people need a handout? Where were u when these bogus wars were started that is costing us trillions? U phony fuks only care when it is an American worker who is benefiting from something the gov't does. I will say it again. How the fuuk did some rich greedy asshole brainwash you douchebags into blaming middle class and poor people for the country's woes? They do it with welfare they do it with the banking crisis. At what point in life do u realize u are being conned? At what point will u reach the age of reason? I don't like welfare either but when u assholes finally realize there is both welfare for the top and the bottom maybe we will get something done.

[QuantumLeap]

Really? I think that is the first time i said "Rush tell u that" in a thread. I guess u also hate that those American jobs were saved but have no problem with a giant severance package that went to a guy who ran the company into the ground. Why don't u asshole ever care where the big loss of tax revenue goes? How about the billions(handouts) the oil companies get when they are making record profits? Why do these people need a handout? Where were u when these bogus wars were started that is costing us trillions? U phony fuks only care when it is an American worker who is benefiting from something the gov't does. I will say it again. How the fuuk did some rich greedy asshole brainwash you douchebags into blaming middle class and poor people for the country's woes? They do it with welfare they do it with the banking crisis. At what point in life do u realize u are being conned? At what point will u reach the age of reason? I don't like welfare either but when u assholes finally realize there is both welfare for the top and the bottom maybe we will get something done.

That's your typical mode of reasoning. You bring up things that are going wrong and attribute us to believing in that wrong system. Then you continue with profanities and finish it up with insults.

I agree with you on some of those things you mention like the war and corporate welfare so don't make things up and attribute it to my way of thinking. That's just an ineffective way of trying to make your point.

[Thor4140]

Read the article I posted

I see reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points

Not good at book keeping, accountancy or economic are you.

Here's alink to a Mathematical website, you need it.
http://www.math-exercises-for-kids.com/m…

Given your premise, every company that has an outstanding loan or owes an investor ANY money is NOT profitable, in other words pret ymuch EVERY LARGE COMPANY IN THE WORLD !

[andywend]

This line of thinking is retarted

You need to lose logic

If GM went under, its workers would be out of a job, yes

But other companies would come in and take the vacant marketshare GM left behind

Those new companies in the industry would then hire people because of their expanded marketshare

Chances are a lot of the ex GM employees who lost their jobs would be hired by these new companies

It's not like the lost GM jobs would be lost jobs forever and these people would never work again

Use some common sense

Say the Bellagio went out of business. You think the people who worked at Bellagio would be out of work forever? No, I bet that whatever new company took over the Bellagio would hire them or they would be hired on at other casinos.

GM was bailed out by Obama as a return thank you gesture for the strong level of financial support that the UAW showed during Obama's presidential campaign.

Obama did the same thing with Solyndra but that company couldn't stave off bankruptcy even with Obama's $535 million gift by way of taxpayers. You can bet Obama would have given Solyndra another $500 million if the heat wasn't turned up so much on him.

Even with all that free government money and a soaring stock market, GM is still down by 50% this year and will be right back at the government's tit begging for more money in the near future.

The federal government has no business deciding which companies deserve a bailout and which ones don't.

Why was GM saved but not Lehman Bros or Circuit City? Why are GM's bloated and overpaid union jobs more important than the men and women working their tails off at Circuit City?

Its a shame Thor didn't have his entire net worth invested in GM bonds only to watch Obama steal the bondholders money and give it to the criminal theives over at the UAW.

$35 billion spent HELPING people in THIS country is better than the trillions we spend blowing up sand halfway around the world

Our country is almost $16 TRILLION in debt and more like $116 TRILLION when all those unfunded promises are taken into consideration. We shouldn't be spending trillions blowing up sand halfway around the world and shouldn't be spending $35 Billion propping up companies like GM/Solyndra that can't compete on their own 2 feet.

[Thor4140]

GM was bailed out by Obama as a return thank you gesture for the strong level of financial support that the UAW showed during Obama's presidential campaign.

Obama did the same thing with Solyndra but that company couldn't stave off bankruptcy even with Obama's $535 million gift by way of taxpayers. You can bet Obama would have given Solyndra another $500 million if the heat wasn't turned up so much on him.

Even with all that free government money and a soaring stock market, GM is still down by 50% this year and will be right back at the government's tit begging for more money in the near future.

The federal government has no business deciding which companies deserve a bailout and which ones don't.

Why was GM saved but not Lehman Bros or Circuit City? Why are GM's bloated and overpaid union jobs more important than the men and women working their tails off at Circuit City?

Its a shame Thor didn't have his entire net worth invested in GM bonds only to watch Obama steal the bondholders money and give it to the criminal theives over at the UAW. Our country is almost $16 TRILLION in debt and more like $116 TRILLION when all those unfunded promises are taken into consideration. We shouldn't be spending trillions blowing up sand halfway around the world and shouldn't be spending $35 Billion propping up companies like GM/Solyndra that can't compete on their own 2 feet.

A insurance salesman always worried about what middle class union families make and always thinking they are the reason why the country is in the shitter but never a peep about the ONE guy who leaves the comppany with 100 mil and ran the company right into the ground. The union workers dump that money right back into the economy. The thief who gets the 100 million won't put 1 percent of it back in.

[MUHerd37]

We shouldn't be bailing anyone out. Period.

[PAULYPOKER]

Again, these issues are just symptoms of the cancer that is now full blown...................


The media is the master of the symptom and your debating its message is the pill,you can only mask the pain with a pill but surely you can cure the disease with knowledge of the underlying issue..............

[Thor4140]

if u want to be pissed off at something about GM it is this. I also agree about not bailing anyone out but this ass hat Andy blames everything on unions. Here is how the unions are gonna get fuk. Andy should love shit like this. Out sourcing 101

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo

[PAULYPOKER]

"No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders."
--Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, 1775

[MC PICKS]

Unions bankrupt companies, the sooner we get rid of them the better off america will be. Like those assholes from GM they caught drinking and smoking pot on their lunch break, im sure glad my tax dollars went to save those pieces of shits jobs.

[PAULYPOKER]

[DwightShrute]

Ford ran their business properly and didn't take a dime of tax payer money. Millions of other businesses lost money and went out of business and the government never bailed them out. Government Motors was bailed out for one reason and one reason only ... the Auto Union. I guarantee you one thing ... if GM wasn't a union, they wouldn't have been bailed out. Fact.

[Br0nxer]

Government Motors: As GM shares near record low, taxpayer loss on bailout rises to $35 billion


http://news.investors.com/article/616849/201207030826/gm-bailout-taxpayer-loss-rises-as-shares-fall.htm

Government Motors Stock continues to drop

Taxpayers are further and further in the hole because of this

And yet they are doing perfectly fine enough to run retarted commercials such as the "Baseball Hotdogs Apple Pie and Chevrolet" commercial 50 times during a baseball game.

This company should have gone bankrupt, but the idiots in Washington knew this couldn't happen because their buddies at the UAW wouldn't allow it. Should have let the free market decide GM's fate. When a government picks winners and losers the taxpayers lose in the end.

The bailout for them wasn't to bail out GM but the UAW

A righteous government would dump all the GM shares and tell them they are on their own

Ford didn't get a bailout and they are doing just fine

The Chevy Volt is a disaster, I have driven a few and they are piece of crap low end cars that happen to have an electric motor. One more piece of crap taxpayers are on the hook for

I never have owned an American made car and never will

But our government will probably intercede again, they will make an "American Car Mandate" and tax you if you buy a foreign car. Just like the Obamacare mandate

Anything to please the UAW

Again, GM should have NEVER been bailed out. They put themselves in this mess, why should the taxpayers have bailed them out? In a righteous country they would have gone bankrupt, and existing companies/new companies would have taken over the marketshare. Let the free market work.

currently have my first american made car

will never get another one

[Deuce]

Compared to what? Chevys?

I have valeted part time for the past 6 years and while Cadillacs are not bad Chevys, GMCs, Pontiacs and Saturns have to be the biggest pieces of crap ever made.

Car is 70k. I'd rather drive this than a fukkin tight tiny BMW or Benz any day. Dealership calling monthly asking to turn it in and will hook up with a new car and be taken care of. Fukk off. Northstar V8 black on black 30k miles. PASS

[muldoon]

Ford ran their business properly and didn't take a dime of tax payer money.

So that sweetheart 5.9 billion GOVERNMENT LOW INTEREST loan they got in 2009 & the spike in sales from cash for clunkers doesn't count as tax payer money?

[DwightShrute]

So that sweetheart 5.9 billion GOVERNMENT LOW INTEREST loan they got in 2009 & the spike in sales from cash for clunkers doesn't count as tax payer money?

eliminate the debt, fix healthcare etc, run a surplus and then you can do stuff like this.

[muldoon]

eliminate the debt, fix healthcare etc, run a surplus and then you can do stuff like this.

???

How does that work with what you said. Did Ford not take that 2009 gov't loan or benefit directly from taxpayers via Cash for Clunkers?

[DwightShrute]

???

How does that work with what you said. Did Ford not take that 2009 gov't loan or benefit directly from taxpayers via Cash for Clunkers?

ok so they got a low interest loan to develope some shit. Nice try.