[dynamite140]

Can anyone access betisland's casino? For some reason I can't access it.

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You need to be at least 18.

[robmpink]

Just saying you have made mention of the miserable horse max payout limits, which they are, numerous times. I don't think you forgot, rather are trying to see what you could get. Can't fault you for trying, but those are the posted limits and think you are trying to use the forum for some advantage.

My 2 cents.

[wtt0315]

Just saying you have made mention of the miserable horse max payout limits, which they are, numerous times. I don't think you forgot, rather are trying to see what you could get. Can't fault you for trying, but those are the posted limits and think you are trying to use the forum for some advantage.

My 2 cents.

Honestly no
i really did forget.. i just didnt think about it because i have been playing at heritage and like i said honestly i never would of thought that pick 3 would pay anything close to that.. I wouldnt use the board i would just email jon, which i did by the way

[dark star]

Cris/Bookmaker great for horses

[bostonboss]

those are terrible limits..if i were you id go over to bookmaker for the ponies.....i think even legends has better limits.

[indio]

Never ever bet horses offshore

It is the biggest sucker bet you can ever make

Play with legal usa shops hooked into totes

Quite the opposite. If you're betting win pools, you'd be a sucker if you didn't play offshore. Of course, it needs to be a good shop, but if you want to be a long term winner betting races, offshore is your only hope. Let's look at 2 examples.

1rst example is at a big track like Hollywood Park with 100,000 in the pool. Lets say the #3 horse is the horse you like and there's 27,000 bet on him in that pool. You want to bet $500 to win on him. So now there's $100,500 in the pool and $27,500 bet on the #3 horse. Hollywood is going to take 15.43% out of that off the top, so that leaves $84,993 to pay out to the $27,500 which bet the #3. That would be +209, so the pari-mutual price should be 6.18 BUT, tracks have a little something called breakage (theft) where they ALWAYS round down to the nearest .20, so this horse would pay 6.00. That means the track took 17.93% of the money. If you bet that horse at 5 dimes, your $500 bet isnt going into the pools, so the horse would end up paying 6.20. AND, you're getting 10% added to that (if your signed up for that), so your mutual is 6.86. So for your $500 bet, if you win you'll get back $1715 at 5 dimes compared to $1500 through the track tote. Thats a HUGE difference.(7.4% juice vs. 17.93% juice) Now, I doubt they will let you beat them forever if you're good at picking winners,and do it regularly, but lets just say you bet 100 races like this over the course of a year at $500 a pop. If you have moderate success picking 32 winners, and the average payout scenario is just like above, then you would lose 2k betting through the mutuals, and win 5k betting at 5dimes.

Now lets say you want to bet $500 on a horse at a medium to smaller track (C track) at Beulah. Lets say you like the #2 horse and the pool has 25,000 total with 7,000 bet on the #2. Beulah takes 18%, so if you did nothing, this horse would pay 5.80 at the track, but if you bet the $500 there, youre now 25,500/7,500, which means the horse will pay 5.40 through the mutual. At 5 Dimes, you're getting 6.38. So if the #2 wins, you get back $1350 betting through the track, and $1595 back at 5dimes.

No one with an ounce of sense will try to beat a 18% rake AND bet against his own money. That's one of the reasons horse racing is a dead sport now, because governments wanted some of the money and forced higher takeouts. There was a time in the golden age of racing where the pari-mutuals only took 5%. In fact, in Kentucky law from 1931, a Paris-mutual(not mispelled, this was invented in Paris, France)is considered a player vs player pool where the host takes a 5% commision.

Now, if your betting pick 6's and big carryovers, OF COURSE you want to bet those through track pools, because now your'e talking huge payoffs (and you might be the only winner, so there wont be a payoff offshore). But most forms of betting on horses is suicide through mutual pools. And many of these tracks keep raising their take-outs. California has one of the highest exacta take outs in the country at 22.68%

And as far as worrying about books making excuses about getting the bet in on time, just make sure you're playing where it's time stamped, and don't wait for the very last minute. All races have an official start time that says when the gate opened. If you're a few minutes ahead of that, you should't have any worries with a good book.

[bettilimbroke999]

Tip for anyone looking to gamble online

Betislands SUCKS!

[indio]

Another example of a huge advantage betting offshore vs. through the tracks are supers, triples and pick 3's, especially with smaller pools.

Now, Bovada takes heat for its square sportsbook (and they deserve it), and they've had some major payout issues regarding checks that are taking 2 months, but they do have a very good racebook. No limits on payouts, just overall profit limit per race. Small tracks are capped at $5k, some are 10k, some are 15k, and the big ones are 30k. I'm sure there are others who do this too. Truth be told, I'm not a fan of Bovada overall, but I will give them their due on it's very good racebook.

Lets say you want to take a shot at a pick 3 at a place like Sunland Downs (a great track by the way). Lets say you like some pricey horses to have a chance, so you spread a $1 pick 3 around with a 2-3-7-8-4/2-4-6-7-9/5-6-10-12 for $100. Chances are, there would be about $10,000 in the pool. Let's say a $30 horse wins the middle leg, and only 4 tickets had the pick 3. it comes in 3-7-6. If you bet this offshore, you'd get back $1875, if you bet this through the track, you'd get back $1515 AND get a W-2G tax slip. Lets pretend only 3 had this. $2500 offshore, $1894 through the track. Can you imagine the difference if only 1 person had this at the track? That would pay $7500, but if you bet through the pools (making 2 winners) you'd get $3787. Now of course, the flip side is if you'd be the only winner, there wont be a payoff except a consolation 2 out of 3. But at Bovada, all your 2/3 combinations would get paid. so you'd at least get 13 different consolations. The added payouts vs. the very rare scoop would certainly lean towards offshore on moderate pools.

[ThaWoj]

the fukkd up thing is that there was only $2574 in the pick 3 pool.
http://www.equibase.com/static/chart...061812USA5.pdf


cannot believe that payoff for those odds/fields. only thing i can think of was that there was a massive bridge-jumper who slammed a different combination

[BigDaddy]

Just saying you have made mention of the miserable horse max payout limits, which they are, numerous times. I don't think you forgot, rather are trying to see what you could get. Can't fault you for trying, but those are the posted limits and think you are trying to use the forum for some advantage.

My 2 cents.

looks like it worked once again

[bettilimbroke999]

How could any racebook have a $100 max payout...I mean seriously wtf?

I guess BetIslands makes money robbin ppl like that though so good for them...good ppl to do business with, 100 buck payout on a 600 win

[HedgeHog]

looks like it worked once again

My thoughts too. I'm guessing Jon made good on the difference but doesn't want to set a precedent publicly. Hopefully BI will take this as constructive criticism, but the horse wagering limits are extremely poor for a major Book and baseball is extremely late in getting out each day (even JustBet gets out sooner). Need improvement in both of theses areas, but payouts remain top level. My 2c.

[wtt0315]

Nope still same. But I don't expect anything since limits were posted.

[HedgeHog]

Nope still same. But I don't expect anything since limits were posted.

Sorry to hear that. BTW, you can have racing deactivated at BI, so the mistake never happens again. I have mine turned off and won't activate until they decide to come up to the Big Boy levels. 100-1 max on triples and supers is embarrassing.

[thechaoz]

That's just terrible imo

[djefferis]

There are times when offshore can be useful betting ponies, but not many.

US based is taxed. If you make a few 5k show bets and take the free 5%, legit books will limit or toss you if you continue with no other wagers.

In this case, I truely believe the OP forgot (but knew originally) of BI limits, and never felt the payout would be that big. Sucks, but book is in the right.

You can't refund 20% or more and offer true track odds, sharps will bury you. Look at RW, they have horrible caps on racing.

Never underestimate the stupidity of your competition in a parimutual pool. Other bettors tend to be 98% losers. Sometimes you get lucky and they blow their wad on a "tipster" whose horse doesn't show and you get payouts on exotics above fair odds.

[bettilimbroke999]

Thats one of the most bizarre payouts ive ever seen! The ML's for the winners were 3-1,3-1, and 4-1 in 6 and 7 horse fields!

Exactly, 633 is unreal for those winners, if you were to have parlayed a dollar on those 3 it would have paid only 80 bucks

[5mike5]

That's just terrible imo

[taxer]

they have said their racebook is not what they focus on , if the payouts are posted on the website its on OP.

Still solid book

[macb]

they updated their software in the racebook and said they were going to adjust rules/limits. So far....nothing. Update ?????
Jon ???

[LordVodka]

I can't even access the racebook. I don't get it.

[jjgold]

Offshore books close your accounts if you win a few bets with horses or should I say win a decent amount

offshore books will rarely take a $200 win bet and if they do and you hit a few your done or they pull some BS

Horses betting all around is geared for the legal usa shops

Very few offshore sportsbook take much horse action

[HedgeHog]

Offshore books close your accounts if you win a few bets with horses or should I say win a decent amount

offshore books will rarely take a $200 win bet and if they do and you hit a few your done or they pull some BS

Horses betting all around is geared for the legal usa shops

Very few offshore sportsbook take much horse action

More misinformation. Cris and 5-Dimes won't bat an eye at a $200 win bet. Both are sponsor Books and would likely prefer you STFU.

PS Indio made some strong points about the advantages of horse betting at top offshore Books.

[indio]

Some of these comments talking about how remarkable the payout was, and bridge jumpers, and parlays, really underscores how some of you fail to grasp certain concepts. But, first off, lets get the actual prices for the horses correct.

3rd race winner - paid 9.40 ( +370)
4rth race winner paid 14.20 (+610)
5th race winner paid 6.40 (+220)

Now, pick 3 prices have limited correlation between the individual race mutuals and the pick 3 payoffs because they're separate pools, and that creates different dynamics, not to mention the affect of paying heavy juice 3 times instead of once.

Now, in this instance there were 252 possible pick 3 combinations. (6x6x7). And 2574 $1 combo's were played. So if all the combinations were bet the same, there would have been 10 winners picking up $199 for the winning pick. However, pick 3 bets are never equal. In this instance, we had the favorite lose all 3 legs, the first 2 races saw heavily bet 3-5 favorites that went down. This means that most of the 2574 combinations played were eliminated. How many? who knows for sure, but since those bets are always chalk heavy with keys, lets say 70% of all combos had the 3-5 in the first leg, and the 3 other bet horses split up the rest, so lets just say after the first leg, out of 2574 tickets, 257 are live. Now out of those 257 live tickets, lets say 60% of those bet the 3-5 in the second leg, and another 30% bet the 2-1 second choice that lost. Lets say 6% of the 257 used the winner (6-1), so now you have 15 live tickets. Out of the 15 live tickets, you might have had 5 on the favorite, 3 on the winning second choice, 3 on the 4-1 shot, 2 on the 9-2 shot, 1 on the 7-1 shot, and 1 on the 20-1 shot.

There were 3 winning $1 pick-3 winning tickets. How do we know? because there was $2574 bet in the pool, Thistledown takes 22.5% of that, leaving $1995. Since it paid $663, its easy to figure there were 3 winners. Considering the information, not that remarkable at all.


One needs to understand the affect of paying heavy juice 3 times in comparing win parlays to pick 3's when making those comparisons.

Lets say i have 3 races, and each race has 3 equal horses. Now, Thistledown has 18% win rake PLUS dime breakage, so lets say each race has 20% takeout on the win pools. That means horse A, B, AND C, if all bet equally (2-1) will be offered at odds of +140. A parlay of three +140's produces odds of +1282. Now in a pick 3 pool, there would be 27 combinations (3x3x3). Now if every pick 3 combination was bet equally (26-1), and after they take their 22.5% juice, the pick 3 would offer odds of +1993.

If we play a $100 parlay with horse A (+140), horse C (+140) and horse A (+140) and it wins, we get back $1382
If we play a $100 pick 3 using A-C-A, we get back $2093.

Pick 3's are one of the only playable type of bets where a player stands a chance.(if your'e not a chalk player). Find a track with low pick 3 takeouts like Sam Houston (12%), Beulah (14%) or Hastings (15%). These tracks will have relatively small pools between $2500-$5000 on average. If you can hit a few where the favorites lose in 2 or 3 of the legs, and you can hit some longer shots, there might be only 2 or 3 winning combos. Heck, you might even scoop a pool or two.

[indio]

There are times when offshore can be useful betting ponies, but not many.

US based is taxed. If you make a few 5k show bets and take the free 5%, legit books will limit or toss you if you continue with no other wagers.

In this case, I truely believe the OP forgot (but knew originally) of BI limits, and never felt the payout would be that big. Sucks, but book is in the right.

You can't refund 20% or more and offer true track odds, sharps will bury you. Look at RW, they have horrible caps on racing.

Never underestimate the stupidity of your competition in a parimutual pool. Other bettors tend to be 98% losers. Sometimes you get lucky and they blow their wad on a "tipster" whose horse doesn't show and you get payouts on exotics above fair odds.

Don't kid yourself about the stupidity of competition in a pari-mutual pool producing +EV long term in exotic pools raking 25%. Think about it as a poker game. Lets say you're playing stud poker at a full 8 player table. Now, lets say 5 of those players are truly horrible. There's going to be some money to be made BUT the house is dragging 25% out of every pot. Even if you played great, and they played terrible, variance and a 25% rake is going to eat you up. You might even be able to eek out a small rate of profit, but that would mean you'd have to play thousands of hours to make a tiny return. Not worth it.

It's a shame too, because horse racing is a great sport. But they've decided to market it as entertainment or a form of lottery, so all the real gamblers left the game years ago. A player is better off sticking to trying to hit pick5's and 6's on carryover days. Sad, but true.

What these numbskulls in government don't realize, is that if they took a 30% piece of a tracks net profit (like a real business), instead of taking a direct 5%-7% of the mutuals (forcing 18-25% takeouts), they would actually make more in the long run.

You take a beautiful track like Emerald Downs (looks nice on TV anyway), with the mountain in the back, and the pine trees, and you put on competetive cards and offer win pools with 6% takeout instead of 18%, you'll attract gamblers. And instead of $30,000 mutual pools, you could produce $125,000+ mutual pools.

[bobbywaves]

BetIslands making cents now.

[wtt0315]

yeah i just noticed that in my account also