right now the top 1% owns more money then when we had the great depression. Google that roy
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Sbr should pay Brooks for handling these clowns dailyComment -
Here you go JOSH
GDP growth averaged less than 2% over the period you claim had the most growth of all time.
Buried.Comment -
Money is power Josh. Your freedom is for those that can afford it.
I didn't say that you did. It wasn't that much better for people here either. Look at the slums & the jobs people did at the time. Not some fuking chart.
Stayed Yes. Did they really have a choice, or as you say the money & the freedom.
No we weren't Josh. Banking was deregulated, land values pumped up which caused the bubble. The bill came due & people couldn't pay. The bubble popped. 08 crash in short. I don't know were you get this from, but its wrong.
Free Rents or the unearned increment.
Unearned increment
Unearned increment is an increase in the value of land or any property without expenditure of any kind on the part of the proprietor; it is an early statement of the notion of unearned income. It was coined by John Stuart Mill, who proposed taxing it. Mill's concept was refined and developed by nineteenth-century economist Henry George in his book Progress and Poverty (1879).
un·earned in·cre·ment
NOUN
unearned increments (plural noun)
- an increase in the value of land or property without labor or expenditure on the part of the owner.
Comment - an increase in the value of land or property without labor or expenditure on the part of the owner.
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"The highest decadal rate (of growth of real reproducible tangible wealth per head from 1805-1950) for periods of about 10 years was apparently reached in the eighties with approximately 3.8%"Here you go JOSH
GDP growth averaged less than 2% over the period you claim had the most growth of all time.
Buried.
-Milton Friedman and Anna J. Schwartz, Monetary History.
Actually the blogger you cited has other sources that show that late 1800s period had higher growth than 46-80
edit: sorry, I forgot to post the link:http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.bl...-18691879.html
For the period 1869 to 1879, we have these estimates in Romer (1989: 22; I have added the annual growth rates by my own calculation):
Year GNP* Growth Rate
1869 75.609
1870 76.464 1.13%
1871 76.952 0.638%
1872 89.605 16.4%
1873 94.863 5.86%
1874 96.205 1.414%
1875 97.684 1.53%
1876 104.628 7.10%
1877 110.797 5.89%
1878 118.906 7.31%
1879 127.675 7.37%
* Billions of 1982 dollars
Average real GNP growth rate, 1870–1879: 5.46%.Last edited by guitarjosh; 12-22-17, 09:36 PM.Comment -
Money can be exchanged for power. Freedom is for everyone whether they're a billionaire or a pauper.
It was that much better for people, which is why they moved. People won't move to the other side of the world to a land where they don't speak the language for a 3% pay hike. They had a much higher standard of living over here, which is why they came and sent for friends and family, it was so much better.
They did have a choice, which is why they sent for their friends to come, not buy them a ticket out of America.
There were more regulations on the books when W left than when he took over. The problem wasn't the banks, it was the Fed dropping rates to then record lows to get the banks to lend more money, then hiked quickly which popped the bubble.
That's a nice definition, but much more difficult in practice. If I buy a home and the property value goes up, a big chunk of that is due to my neighbors, nearby property developers, etc, but they don't get a chunk of my money anymore than someone in Maine. You're also assuming that there isn't any work to pick the correct asset to buy. There's thousands of stocks and derivatives, but if you buy the wrong one because you didn't do your due diligence, you'll lose a lot.Comment -
There is no freedom, without economic freedom.
Yeah a higher standard that was still crap. So What?
The Fed dropping rates is no reason to bundle those loans & sell them to uninformed people. That are using the rating service that you bought off to give the loans a good rating. They were giving loans to guys off the street. Its was about getting the fees & getting rid of it on the stock market. Your saying that the fed made the banks act like criminals so its the feds fault. Which the fed is run by bankers from wall st in the first place.
If the land or property goes down in value that is not an Unearned increment.
I think you argue, just for the sake of arguing.Last edited by khicks26; 12-22-17, 10:15 PM.Comment -
Don't confuse economic freedom with buying power. Forcing people who run corporations to over pay for labor and how to run their business isn't economic freedom.
Crap compared to what? They certainly didn't think it was crap, which is why they moved, stayed, and sent for friends and family to join them. Up to that point in human history, they had it great.
The problem wasn't necessarily MBSs, it was the bad loans that got bundled in due to the Fed dropping rates. If they hadn't done that and kept rates higher, a lot of those loans wouldn't have been made. Yes, people could do a cut & paste application, but only because they knew the GSEs would buy it up. Most of those bad loans were implicitly backed by the GSEs.
The difference between property you buy going up or down in value could be due to the due diligence you do before you buy, which is work, which can't be unearned income.
If that were the case, I would post a lot more than I do. There are weeks where I don't post a thing in this forum.Comment -
look you don't know what your talking about. Banks have to have the money to cover if the loan went belly up. It only happened when they made all these loans as an investment vestibule. This was done by wall street. I had the h.u.d. contracts in n.ky and s.w.ohio at that time and made a fortune. I allowed someone else to run my agency because the money was great. i had guys putting roofs on houses and would add a 1000. I had 23 people that would do the clean outs and we added 250 mark up. Our expenses were workers comp insurance and regular insurance in case they screwed up the property.If i didn't get sick I would still be in it. My ex business partner billed over 5 million last yr. Good thing I made all that money because it covered a 27 day cost of intensive care. Also 4 months of rehab. also 6 months of waiting for my long term disability to start. Which means I went 8 months with no checkComment -
Yea, that's how free markets work.
I'm always fine with the top 1%. They are the top because they are a lot smarter than you and me. I judge success by wage growth of the skilled class. You know welders, plumbers, electricians, ect. Hard working folks.
I don't care if the 1% owns 99.9999% of everything as long as wages rise and hard working Americans have a shot at the American Dream.Comment -
They tried to do it with life insurance policies but states said NO.Comment -
Thanks to Trump, he got rid of Dodd/ Frank, putting us right back into Bush territory with the loan bullshit.
Talked to my credit union manager about the removal of Dodd/ Frank and he said they will stay with it.
They were never risk gamblers anyway, but thanks to Trump, banks will have the freedom to do what they
did before.Comment -
If workers don't make enough, who is going to buy their products?
One slum for a better slum is not considered great. Neither is working 12 hour day for crap wages. Neither is having children working in factories. Some of the crap that happened in your so called golden days.
Dude the banks were guilty as hell. So just quit.
Yeah & you could also inherit land that they find oil on. What's your point.Comment -
If workers don't make enough to buy the products they need to live, they won't go to work.
It's considered better. What do you think they did before working 12 hours a day in factories? They worked sun up to sun down on the farm. What do you think the kids did before they went to work in factories? They worked on the farm. Working in factories allowed them to have a better life than they had on the farm. You're not going to go from 3rd world to first world without going through 2nd world.
The enabler was the Fed. Dropping interest rates to 1% caused the banks to make riskier loans, as the Fed wanted them to do.
All of Americans live a great life compared to most people who ever lived, but not only due to work we did, but work that the people who came before us did. That's a form of inheritance and free rent, but people don't seem to have a problem with it. Should welfare benefits be taxed? If I inherit land and they discover oil, I didn't work for it, but I didn't take anyone's oil. If my taxes pay for someone who doesn't work, I am worse off so they can be better off.Comment -
No they will work more hours for that crap pay.
So kids working in factories is a good thing. LOL
The fed is run by the banks on wall st Josh. Please make the connection.
Nor did you create the oil in the ground. Hence the Unearned increment.
What's funny is you want compensation for everything you do. Like doing your due diligence in buying land. But yet you don't want people to have a fair wage. You want kids in factories. You want people to make 2 dollars a day.
You don't find this odd?Comment -
The 2 richest families in the U.S. the Koch's and Walton's inherited their money from their father ( like Trump) . I dont know you but that doesnt make them smarter. The fact that you think that they are smarter is maybe part of the reason you feel they a deserve a HUGE tax cut , corporate welfare , the ability to buy elections , and politicians. Most people who are at the top started there. Most people that are at the bottom started there. Im tired of the billionaire worship around here. They Hit the lottery by being born. Most of them dont give a fuq about you. As long as you are fine with the 1%. They will be fine with shitting on you. Lower middle class (R)’s are in an abusive relationship with their leaders. Much like battered women. They just wont leave them.Comment -
hibbity bibbity schwibbity.....
charts, diagrams, fake narratives (love how these pussy senators like warner [with his wimpy raspy voice], blumenthal, chucky, etc., are now creating this narrative that trump will fire mueller, and giving lengthy speeches on it carried by the media to create a story/controversy where none exists).....'
regarding the chart, it's too small to even read, and no one really knows what the growth will exactly be, but it's in all likelihood going to be 2%-4% gdp growth by all accounts....
you want a meaningful chart, easy to read and not fake news? well, I've only seen one in the past three months that is both easy to understand and 100% factually accurate....:
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Or they'll stay home, work for themselves, find other employers that pay better.
No, but children working in factories > children working on the farm. The better doesn't = the ideal.
It's run by people who think they can run the economy just like the communists did. We set the price of credit the same way the communists set the prices for bread.
No, but I also didn't create America's wealth, but I owe no taxes on it. If I buy a stock that goes to the moon due to research and study, I'm entitled to the profits. If I buy a car and rent that out so someone can use it as a taxi, I'm not earning money there either, but if you tax away my profits, I have no reason to buy that car and create that job.
Actually I don't want compensation for everything I do. Earlier today I bought a homeless guy lunch and bought a bus ticket for a homeless lady so she could get to the shelter. I got nothing in return. If I'm doing due diligence to buy the best land, yes, I want compensation when the land goes up in value as would you. I want people to have a fair wage, but paying $15 an hour for $6 an hour of work isn't fair and shouldn't be enforced. Getting $200 an hour for $1000 an hour of labor isn't fair. You want the employers to be ruthlessly exploited. Again, I don't want kids in factories, but if that is their best option then they are going to have to work there. I'd like to live in a mansion too, but that isn't happening right now, and that isn't due to people exploiting me, that's just life.Comment -
Like I said before, it's hard to talk with leftist because they purposely start with a false premise. The richest political activists by far are liberal. Soros could buy and sell the koch brothers many times over. I could go on and on from the Amazon owner to Apple, Google and all of Hollywood, main stream media it's just an incredibly fake narrative.
Republicans, unlike your description, tend to be hard core patriotic and generally hard working Americans who are not looking for a handout. They want a shot at the American Dream, not some socialistic state where the lazy do as well as hard workers. It is the battle between the lazy and the hard workers and so far the hard workers are winning hence Republicans control the House, Senate, POTUS and 38 governorships and state legislators.Comment -
Not sure you can compare working on a family farm to working in a factory or a mine.
So the Fed is run by communists bankers that are chosen from Wall St?
The idea is not to tax away all profit. The idea is to tax resources & consumption using the laws of nature. Their would be no income tax.
You would be taxed on what you consume, not what you produce.Comment -
Funny how far you have your head up your ass. Your stereotypical opinion of (R)s vs. (D)s work ethic and hand outs is the most laugh out loud goof I have ever read . I take it you only know (D)s from what you see on Fox News. I’m independent FYI.
Google any stat you want on giver states vs taker states. Red's are on the government's tit. Where do you think all that Stealth bomber , F-18 , Air Craft carrier cash comes from ? News flash. It ain’t Alabama Mississsippi and West Virginia.
Enjoy your tax breaks for billionaires. Hopefully it trickles down to all the ( R)'s on food stamps. It didn’t last time.
Also Koch's , Walton’s , Trumps are some of the worst people on the planet. Silver spoon greed at its most pathetic . At least Soros Apple Amazon are self made.Comment -
Farm work can't be compared to factory work or mining work?
I doubt they're communists, but they think they are better at setting prices than the market.
I agree we shouldn't tax productivity, but taxing resources isn't wise either. Being able to forecast which resources will be more valuable is a good thing which will have a smoothing impact on the economy.Comment
