[PhillyFlyers]

Cliff Lee over 15.5 Wins For +110

Thank youuuuu Mr. Acavano!

[wtt0315]

would scare me betting over on a pitchers win. Never know if they throw out their arm and miss half the season or whatever. Good luck though

[JohnD25]

Cliff Lee over 15.5 Wins For +110

Thank youuuuu Mr. Acavano!

As a huge Phillies fan myself, this line would look great if Utley and Howard were healthy, not sure how the bats would fair without those 2 big bats in the lineup, and with Pierre in lead-off spot. I'm on the edge with this line for those reasons.

[PhillyFlyers]

As a huge Phillies fan myself, this line would look great if Utley and Howard were healthy, not sure how the bats would fair without those 2 big bats in the lineup, and with Pierre in lead-off spot. I'm on the edge with this line for those reasons.

Let me tell you something my man, Juan Pierre in the leadoff spot is the best thing that could ever happen to the Phillies. Did you watch the game against the Pirates the other day? He manufactured 2 runs by himself just by getting on and stealing bases.

Pierre adds a dimension to the Phillies offense they haven't had since 2008. That is, he gives them the ability to play small ball.

[JohnD25]

Let me tell you something my man, Juan Pierre in the leadoff spot is the best thing that could ever happen to the Phillies. Did you watch the game against the Pirates the other day? He manufactured 2 runs by himself just by getting on and stealing bases.

Pierre adds a dimension to the Phillies offense they haven't had since 2008. That is, he gives them the ability to play small ball.

I worded it wrong, I am not worried with Pierre in the lead-off spot at all for his batting average, however looking back at last year his speed may have reduced to steal bases from the 2010 season.

Worried about the bats behind Pierre, who aren't Utley or Howard to support Pierre, and drive him in. You can definitely expect Pierre to hit .290-.300 this season. Won't do any good if the bats behind him cannot get run support however.

The biggest of my concerns with the line of 15.5 Wins with Lee is mostly, Howard and Utley not in the lineup and healthy.

[PhillyFlyers]

I worded it wrong, I am not worried with Pierre in the lead-off spot at all for his batting average, however looking back at last year his speed may have reduced to steal bases from the 2010 season.

Worried about the bats behind Pierre, who aren't Utley or Howard to support Pierre, and drive him in. You can definitely expect Pierre to hit .290-.300 this season. Won't do any good if the bats behind him cannot get run support however.

The biggest of my concerns with the line of 15.5 Wins with Lee is mostly, Howard and Utley not in the lineup and healthy.

Pierre can get you runs regardless of who's behind him. For example, let's take this scenario....

Pierre is up to bat and gets a single.
Polanco is now up to bat.
Pierre steals second.
Polanco either flies out or gets a hit, either way Pierre goes to 3rd.
Rollins up and he flies out.
Pierre scores anyway.

Phillies now up 1-0 with Halladay, Lee, Hamels pitching.

The ability to play small ball is essential in baseball. This is especially true come playoff time.

I actually think the Phillies offense will be better because of it. Getting Utley and Howard back at full health will be gravy on top of it.

Of course, I'm a Yankees fan and no matter what you guys do, you can't beat us.

[RoadDog]

What you fail to understand is that as the years go on, Pierre's legs are leaving him. He's not the stolen base threat he was even 2 years ago. He's more or less a Triple-A player now. Take it from me, I watched him every game for the White Sox the past two years. He cannot play any type of defense, he can't hit, and hes having trouble stealing bases. He's not the answer. He's going to be a problem.

27 stolen bases last year and 17 times caught stealing. He gets picked off of first at least 5 times a year.

[PhillyFlyers]

What you fail to understand is that as the years go on, Pierre's legs are leaving him. He's not the stolen base threat he was even 2 years ago. He's more or less a Triple-A player now. Take it from me, I watched him every game for the White Sox the past two years. He cannot play any type of defense, he can't hit, and hes having trouble stealing bases. He's not the answer. He's going to be a problem.

27 stolen bases last year and 17 times caught stealing. He gets picked off of first at least 5 times a year.

He looked great in the preseason stealing bases. If he had a problem it certainly didn't show.

[RoadDog]

Message me in June. I'll listen while you vent.

[PhillyFlyers]

Message me in June. I'll listen while you vent.

Ain't gonna hear me vent pal. I'm a Yankees fan.

[RoadDog]

Haha, nice. I had the same feelings when Pierre first got to the White Sox. I thought he was our next Scott Podsednik. No one could fill those glorious shoes.

[JohnD25]

He looked great in the preseason stealing bases. If he had a problem it certainly didn't show.

The thing that bugs me with this, is that you're judging him in pre-season. Pre-season you face all types of pitchers, and catchers along with infielders.

It's like the year the Lions went 4-0 in the pre-season and 0-16 in the regular season. If you were making predictions off the pre-season you'd be a loser all year!

[yisman]

Pierre is washed up. He never walked much, and now he isn't as fast as he used to be. His game was his speed.

[Pick of Destiny]

The Yankees can spend as much money as they want, still won't win a WS for a while

[PhillyFlyers]

The thing that bugs me with this, is that you're judging him in pre-season. Pre-season you face all types of pitchers, and catchers along with infielders.

It's like the year the Lions went 4-0 in the pre-season and 0-16 in the regular season. If you were making predictions off the pre-season you'd be a loser all year!

The argument that was presented was that Pierre has lost his legs.

This may be true, it probably is, after all the guy watched him for 2 years when I only saw him during the preseason.

The only thing I'm saying is that if he has lost his legs, it didn't show in the preseason. He had no problems at all running down balls or stealing bases.

[seaborneq]

Pierre isn't an everyday player anymore. He is a nonfactor in regards to c lee reaching 16 wins

[PhillyFlyers]

Pierre isn't an everyday player anymore. He is a nonfactor in regards to c lee reaching 16 wins

I never said Pierre was going to be a factor in Lee getting 16 wins.

I said Pierre gives the Phillies a dimension to their offense they have lacked since 08. That is, the ability to small ball.

I do not know how the Phillies intend to use him as I am a Yankees fan. From what I've seen and heard here in Philly though, Manuel intends to use him as the everyday leadoff guy as Jimmy Rollins has already been told he will bat 3rd.

As far as Lee getting 16 wins, he should be able to do it in his sleep.

National League is pretty weak this year and the Phils have both the Mets and Nationals in their division.