[PickWinnerAllDay]

I just don't like college basketball fans who judge a program with 98% of its weight being the last 3-4 years. It is just sheer stupidity. 5 years ago, Illinois would have been the 2nd or 3rd best program in the Big 10 using short term thinking like it is being used now. We're not better than Indiana and Ohio State/Michigan State isn't going anywhere, but 5 years ago, we'd be above Purdue/Michigan/Wisconsin for sure.

The real argument here should be about how damn good the Big 10 is in college basketball going forward.

[CMNoney]

We can both agree (hopefully):

Ohio State, Michigan State and Indiana are clearly better jobs. Easier to win there.

Michigan, Purdue and Illinois all pretty equal. Michigan has better facilities and Illinois has better instate recruiting.

[Brock Landers]

Wisconsin was a pile of shit before Bo Ryan got there, so its proof what one good coach can do for a program. We need to find that one guy.

[CMNoney]

I just don't like college basketball fans who judge a program with 98% of its weight being the last 3-4 years. It is just sheer stupidity. 5 years ago, Illinois would have been the 2nd or 3rd best program in the Big 10 using short term thinking like it is being used now. We're not better than Indiana and Ohio State/Michigan State isn't going anywhere, but 5 years ago, we'd be above Purdue/Michigan/Wisconsin for sure.

The real argument here should be about how damn good the Big 10 is in college basketball going forward.

Illinois had one magic season. Actually, if you go by CONSISTENT success, Purdue would be miles ahead of Illinois over the last 20+ years.

[CMNoney]

Wisconsin was a pile of shit before Bo Ryan got there, so its proof what one good coach can do for a program. We need to find that one guy.

FALSE

Dick Bennett says hi.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Illinois had one magic season. Actually, if you go by CONSISTENT success, Purdue would be miles ahead of Illinois over the last 20+ years.

Over the last 20 years, Illinois is far better than Indiana though... so ...

[PickWinnerAllDay]

While Stevens, who guided Butler to runner-up finishes in the NCAA tournament the last two seasons, is justifiably the hotter name, one source said Groce might be better suited to take the reins of the Illinois program.
‘‘John is more outgoing, more gregarious,’’ the source said. ‘‘He’d handle a recruiting street fight
better. He wouldn’t win them all, but he wouldn’t back away.’’

----------- I'm definitely not going to say I'm excited about the prospects of Groce... but everything I'm reading about him seems to paint him as being one of the better recruiting coaches in the country. If he really does recruit that well, with him and Jerrance Howard tag-teaming Chicago, it could actually work out....

Not to mention, if we had hired Stevens or Shaka Smart, they'd be using us to go to Kansas or Indiana in a few years. Groce might actually be a life-timer like Izzo/Bo Ryan if he is successful.

We will see... but if Groce can recruit Chicago well, he will win at Illinois.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

This whole argument is probably dumb... there were probably Ohio State fans who didn't want Thad Matta, probably Michigan State fans who didn't want to just promote a lowly assistant named Tom Izzo, probably Wisconsin fans who didn't want this Bo Ryan guy that looks like a snake, Purdue fans that didn't want a lowly assistant under Bruce Weber named Matt Painter...

Groce won 3 tournament games at Ohio in 4 years, a Ohio program that had 4 tournament wins in their history before they hired Groce...

[flyingillini]

Illinois had one magic season. Actually, if you go by CONSISTENT success, Purdue would be miles ahead of Illinois over the last 20+ years.

Crazy statement.. They have had many great seasons and tons of success over the years... the 89 Flying Illini was much more magical than the Deron Williams/Luther Head/Dee Brown era... the ILLINI program is a top program in the nation... We will be back on top again.....

[CMNoney]

Over the last 20 years, Illinois is far better than Indiana though... so ...

That's arguable. They both made the NCAA finals within the past 20 years.

[CMNoney]

Crazy statement.. They have had many great seasons and tons of success over the years... the 89 Flying Illini was much more magical than the Deron Williams/Luther Head/Dee Brown era... the ILLINI program is a top program in the nation... We will be back on top again.....

It's not crazy at all. Check Purdue's history.

[Brock Landers]

Ill

ini

[flyingillini]

Ill

ini

Muck Fichigan! ILL INI ILL INI ILL INI
Brock, I remembered when we saw each other at Dairy Queen waiting to get Lowell Hamiliton and Earvin Small's autograph....

[Brock Landers]

Muck Fichigan! ILL INI ILL INI ILL INI
Brock, I remembered when we saw each other at Dairy Queen waiting to get Lowell Hamiliton and Earvin Small's autograph....

whatever happened to Kiwane Garris?!

[flyingillini]

whatever happened to Kiwane Garris?!

Little K Garris was a beast going down the lane!!!

[chisox35]

[QUOTE=CMNoney;14245650]It's not crazy at all. Check Purdue's history.[/QUO

I'm not going to sit here and argue the status of the Illini's BB program.I think most fans of any program over value how good they really are.Truth is over the last 30 years(my window of being a huge fan) Illinois is a no doubt a top 15 program.Some great years 84,89,01 and 05,a few bad ones and mostly alot of top 25 type years.I think alot guys on these boards are young and see Illinois as a mid to bottom BIG team because that is what they have been for the last few years.They will be back contending in the conference soon and again nationally soon after.Indiana was in a far worse tail spin recently and Michigan as well.Even UK had a cople ugly years before Cal took over,UCLA nothing to brag about since going to 3 straight final 4's earlier this decade.

[yisman]

Obviously he said no. It's not a very desirable job. Stevens is aiming higher.

[Brock Landers]

Looks like groce is the guy, the news is talking like its a done deal

[flyingillini]

Looks like groce is the guy, the news is talking like its a done deal

Groce will be a disaster for our program and the job needs to be handed to Jimmy Collins right now!

[d2bets]

I don't see why Groce would be a disaster. He's a midwest guy, big ten experience, done well in tourney. Looks a lot like the Weber signing though, Weber being trained under Keady at Pudue and Groce being trained under Matta at OSU. He was the recruiting guy at OSU when they got some good talent for several years.

[flyingillini]

I don't see why Groce would be a disaster. He's a midwest guy, big ten experience, done well in tourney. Looks a lot like the Weber signing though, Weber being trained under Keady at Pudue and Groce being trained under Matta at OSU. He was the recruiting guy at OSU when they got some good talent for several years.

Wayne or Jimmy deserve the job, nobody else.

[Brock Landers]

Wayne or Jimmy deserve the job, nobody else.

Neither are in the picture or discussion

[d2bets]

Wayne or Jimmy deserve the job, nobody else.

Deserve? Deserve is not an issue. Only issue is who is best for the job and who will have most success. Jimmy is retired.

[flyingillini]

Neither are in the picture or discussion

Brock, you need to go to my Daughter's Communion we are having it at St. Mathew Catholic Parish at 1303 Lincolnshire Drive. You are invited , it's going to be a holy day...

[chisox35]

Relax,flyingillini.....I loved Jimmy as much as you back in the day with Lou but when they passed on him after Lou that was his shot.I'm going to give the next guy a chance before I pass judgement on the program becoming a disaster.

[flyingillini]

Relax,flyingillini.....I loved Jimmy as much as you back in the day with Lou but when they passed on him after Lou that was his shot.I'm going to give the next guy a chance before I pass judgement on the program becoming a disaster.

Ok, I agree chisox35, you are the 2nd coming of Christ on SBR. You really give us a perspective of a real Illini fan... You and I are the biggest ILLINI fans on SBR.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Relax,flyingillini.....I loved Jimmy as much as you back in the day with Lou but when they passed on him after Lou that was his shot.I'm going to give the next guy a chance before I pass judgement on the program becoming a disaster.

I may just be buying into the articles I'm reading, but Groce doesn't seem like that bad of an idea. The guy is relentless on the recruiting trail....

[flyingillini]

I may just be buying into the articles I'm reading, but Groce doesn't seem like that bad of an idea. The guy is relentless on the recruiting trail....

If Groce can lead us to the Promise Land it will be almost as good as the Last Supper! In Groce We Trust!

[infamousbacardi]

I just don't like college basketball fans who judge a program with 98% of its weight being the last 3-4 years. It is just sheer stupidity. 5 years ago, Illinois would have been the 2nd or 3rd best program in the Big 10 using short term thinking like it is being used now. We're not better than Indiana and Ohio State/Michigan State isn't going anywhere, but 5 years ago, we'd be above Purdue/Michigan/Wisconsin for sure.

You can't be this biased? You are having two different conversations with yourself pal.

1) Historically, where does Illinois rank in college basketball?

2) In terms of current status of the program, where does Illinois rank in college basketball?

ANY NON PARTISAN analyst of college basketball would answer those questions very differently.

Historically speaking, sure, Illinois has had some great moments in their history...but what does a "big name" coach coming into the program give two-shits about that?? You need to recruit the current crop of high school talent to be successful, and that's universal language at ALL programs. Do you think some 6'8" shooting guard from inner city Chicago who scores 50 points a game in AAU ball has either 1 ounce of care or worry about how good Illinois was 20 years ago? Or would you suppose they'd be more keen on who they were watching with their friends last year play in the tournament??

You're very out of touch with reality my friend, and even if you're going to care about all-time, that's obviously very subjective. This list has them ranked like 24th all time. The bottom line is that coaches are leave programs to new ones because they feel they will be able to have success there. I think a coach would be lucky to get the Illinois job, it just has to be the right guy. Like Bo Ryan at Wisconsin...a guy who will get in there, get his hands dirty and win games. Groce could definitely be that guy for Illinois. Although, Illinois will have to recruit much better, etc. You are wrong in that you're trying to have 2 conversations with yourself while everyone else is trying to present only 1 of the two. In that, they are right....today, as you read this sentence, Illinois isn't close to a top-20 program in the country in terms of where they sit today w/ talent, location, expectations, etc. They just aren't.
http://tinyurl.com/Illinoisrank

[flyingillini]

We Bleed Orange and Blue... Brock and I.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

You can't be this biased? You are having two different conversations with yourself pal.

1) Historically, where does Illinois rank in college basketball?

2) In terms of current status of the program, where does Illinois rank in college basketball?

ANY NON PARTISAN analyst of college basketball would answer those questions very differently.

Historically speaking, sure, Illinois has had some great moments in their history...but what does a "big name" coach coming into the program give two-shits about that?? You need to recruit the current crop of high school talent to be successful, and that's universal language at ALL programs. Do you think some 6'8" shooting guard from inner city Chicago who scores 50 points a game in AAU ball has either 1 ounce of care or worry about how good Illinois was 20 years ago? Or would you suppose they'd be more keen on who they were watching with their friends last year play in the tournament??

You're very out of touch with reality my friend, and even if you're going to care about all-time, that's obviously very subjective. This list has them ranked like 24th all time. The bottom line is that coaches are leave programs to new ones because they feel they will be able to have success there. I think a coach would be lucky to get the Illinois job, it just has to be the right guy. Like Bo Ryan at Wisconsin...a guy who will get in there, get his hands dirty and win games. Although, Illinois will have to recruit much better, etc. You are wrong in that you're trying to have 2 conversations with yourself while everyone else is trying to present only 1 of the two. In that, they are right....today, as you read this sentence, Illinois isn't close to a top-20 program in the country in terms of where they sit today w/ talent, location, expectations, etc. They just aren't.
http://tinyurl.com/Illinoisrank

You're wrong. I bet you there weren't more than 10 teams in the country with more top 100 ranked players on the roster from their respective classes this year.

Illinois had 8 players I believe (it might have been 7) on the roster this season who were top 100 recruits in their respective classes. That is more than enough talent to be a winning basketball team and be a very good basketball team.

You're way too biased based off what Weber has turned the Illini team into... he took a very talented team and did nothing with it because he is incapable of changing his coaching style on offense or defense. He refused to play zone ONE play this season. He refused to get away from his motion offense or stop Meyers Leonard from floating 40 feet from the basket.

You can't name 20 programs who had more top 100 recruits this year on their roster. I guarantee that. You're the one out of touch with reality. 99% of the coaches in the country would have done good things with the talent on this team this year. Weber is the 1%.

Another thing to consider is that Jerrance Howard will probably stay on board and still recruit the hell out of Chicago. It is an attractive job.

[t-wizzle]

Can't blame Stevens here. Why would he want to go to a mediocre program like Illinois? He can stay at Butler and develop that program some more until a bigger job opens up.

[infamousbacardi]

You can shout all the numbers and recruiting classes you want out there, the bottom line is talent. 100s of players fail to reach their potential every year in college athletics. The debate then becomes is it because the players aren't panning out, or is it coaching directly?

If you want to discredit what BW did for your program that's fine, but it's hard to argue w/ what he did in terms of production as well. Final Four app....etc.

I watched multiple Illinois games this year, ML was definitely not being coached well...but he is overrated too. Two way street.

[Ralphie1412]

Brock you live in a shithole, no one wants to live there. They cant even recruit chicago. Rose and Davis both taken out of their own backyard. Brad Stevens plays in a historical building in one of the best high school basketball states in the country. Not to mention hes about to reap all the rewards from back to back final fours. He has monster recruits coming in and the transfers who transferred after the two final fours had to sit out this year. He has the best 3 point shooter in the league playing next year after sitting out this year from Arkansas. The kid is like 49% from 3. Hes got great freshmen and Kyle Marshall will be older.

Ya please send me to Champaign Urbana Illinois to recruit against Tom Izzo, Tom Crean, Matt Painter, Thad Matta, etc.

Get a clue Brock.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

You can shout all the numbers and recruiting classes you want out there, the bottom line is talent. 100s of players fail to reach their potential every year in college athletics. The debate then becomes is it because the players aren't panning out, or is it coaching directly?

If you want to discredit what BW did for your program that's fine, but it's hard to argue w/ what he did in terms of production as well. Final Four app....etc.

I watched multiple Illinois games this year, ML was definitely not being coached well...but he is overrated too. Two way street.

It is all coaching. Trust me. I've watched every Illinois game the last 3 seasons.

Consider this... DJ Richardson was Big 10 freshman of the year.... the next 2 seasons? Garbage.

Players don't improve under Bruce Weber. They get progressively worse.