[gangeriver]

Not so hard for impaitent euro players. No book offers -105 for euro basketball games and you may find a lot of easy games in a season. More importantly they open lines earlier that is Big advantage. Unfortunately I moved to Canada one and a half months ago and can't handicaped euro games... i m looking forward to mlb.. i hope i beat it

[JR007]

all about their "numbers system" in my opinion,I watch it all the time, the great nicky santoro
said he watched the screen 15 hours a day

[jjgold]

If you think your going to bet Pinnacle at -112 and bet the weaker side at +121 at another book it will not last long
Most books will reduce your limits to $10 a game sooner than later

Anyone saying the arbing and making like 25k a year is lying, there are not enough arbs for big market sports and big market books vs big market books anymore

[helpplease]

anyone know by any chance who the owner of Pinnacle is ?

I asked them by email and they said they cannot disclose that information .. I found that weird and was just curious

[donkson]

john pinnacle

[Hareeba!]

Anyone saying the arbing and making like 25k a year is lying, there are not enough arbs for big market sports and big market books vs big market books anymore

I would disagree with that. There would be a few who have more sophisticated arb and middling technicques who could do that figure quite easily I'd imagine.

From reading many posts on this site however it does seem that some say they are arbing when in fact they are trading. Arbing is backing both sides of a bet simultaneously as opposed to anticipating movements in odds and lines to secure a profit. I think the latter is less likey to get you limited.

[durito]

I think the latter is less likey to get you limited.

I don't. Arbing, "trading", or just playing the soft side are all going to be seen the same way. If you are getting the best of it, most books are going to eventually show you the door.

[durito]

If you think your going to bet Pinnacle at -112 and bet the weaker side at +121 at another book it will not last long
Most books will reduce your limits to $10 a game sooner than later

Anyone saying the arbing and making like 25k a year is lying, there are not enough arbs for big market sports and big market books vs big market books anymore

what about 25k a month or week?

[subs]

ass whooping vs pinny but can beat stan james tho

i know, when i'm not bragging i'm boasting (it should be obv that that is the opposite of a brag).

[jjgold]

You need to do your homework and understand line movement and math

[Smoke]

If you win you get shown the door

So answer is NO

[JR007]

You need to do your homework and understand line movement and math

absolutely, another tip from Nicky Santoro, when you see the books agressively move the line one way, fade the move, think the challenge is where it gets 'pushed' past the fair line value,, maybe 3 or 4 points in totals, not sure on sides, not just pinnicle, it's also how pinnicle interacts with other book moves

[vitalyo]

i had a winning record till Pinnacle kicked americans to the curb

You need to do your homework and understand line movement and math

^^^ parallel universes do exist !!!
one universe communicate with another through SBR forum .

BOL

[smoke a bowl]

I am now a good 2% more dumb having read this thread. Special thanks to Rowand.

[faststeady]

25k a yr JJ , lol

[wantitall4moi]

If you think your going to bet Pinnacle at -112 and bet the weaker side at +121 at another book it will not last long
Most books will reduce your limits to $10 a game sooner than later

Anyone saying the arbing and making like 25k a year is lying, there are not enough arbs for big market sports and big market books vs big market books anymore

LMAo, there are that many simultaneous arbitrages around. But in a lot of cases you take leads at Pinnacle, wait for the other books to move on air then go that way.

You can make 25K with almost no bankroll and sleep walking. With a 50K bankroll you should be making 1500-2000 a day everyday in baseball.

[rowand13]

they win about 20% of the time

So, if 20% of those +460 lines win vs Pinny, imagine what the winning percentage would be for those handicap spreads vs Pinny. I am referring only to those situations when Pinny would intentionally oppose the market.
durito, you know better, Don't you?

[rowand13]

...

[rowand13]

so why aren't you the richest person in the world

Because, I honestly don't gamble on sports anymore, and hopefully will never do it again in life ever. I am a Christian and believe that any money I win from gambling could be a part of destroying someone's else life, and that this money would cause me rather troubles than any good. I have had enough big shocking losses in the past that have destroyed every good thing in my life. In fact, it was only my passion to most kinds of sports that had caused me to do this mistake in the past.

I imagine myself in a position of a player who scores a last minute goal or a last second buzzer beater and how he can cause a $5k or a $6k life changer bet to lose in 1 second and how would the person losing that bet personally hate this player, and feel more disgusted about gambling. Also, imagine yourself a sportsbook maker and how you feel being in the business of destroying lives everyday. For me, I would wish to die, before I occupy such an evil position.

[jgilmartin]

Because, I honestly don't gamble on sports anymore, and hopefully will never do it again in life ever. I am a Christian and believe that any money I win from gambling could be a part of destroying someone's else life, and that this money would cause me rather troubles than any good. I have had enough big shocking losses in the past that have destroyed every good thing in my life. In fact, it was only my passion to most kinds of sports that had caused me to do this mistake in the past.

I imagine myself in a position of a player who scores a last minute goal or a last second buzzer beater and how he can cause a $5k or a $6k life changer bet to lose in 1 second and how would the person losing that bet personally hate this player, and feel more disgusted about gambling. Also, imagine yourself a sportsbook maker and how you feel being in the business of destroying lives everyday. For me, I would wish to die, before I occupy such an evil position.

Personal responsibility FTW.

Seriously, why are you here then?

[Inkwell77]

LMAo, there are that many simultaneous arbitrages around. But in a lot of cases you take leads at Pinnacle, wait for the other books to move on air then go that way.

You can make 25K with almost no bankroll and sleep walking. With a 50K bankroll you should be making 1500-2000 a day everyday in baseball.

You can't make this up.

Please wantitall. Tell us which way the lines are going to move just for 10 plays during the first week of the season, that's it, so you don't have to give any info away or whatever, it's just 10 plays where you post a number at its current price at pinnacle and by gametime you have an actual arb available. You should be able to get this done easily within the first week. If you can post 7 or 8 winning line moves out of the 10 plays someone might believe you.

[Hareeba!]

You can't make this up.

Please wantitall. Tell us which way the lines are going to move just for 10 plays during the first week of the season, that's it, so you don't have to give any info away or whatever, it's just 10 plays where you post a number at its current price at pinnacle and by gametime you have an actual arb available. You should be able to get this done easily within the first week. If you can post 7 or 8 winning line moves out of the 10 plays someone might believe you.

That isn't arbing.

It's trading. A quite different animal.

[rowand13]

LMAo, there are that many simultaneous arbitrages around. But in a lot of cases you take leads at Pinnacle, wait for the other books to move on air then go that way.

You can make 25K with almost no bankroll and sleep walking. With a 50K bankroll you should be making 1500-2000 a day everyday in baseball.

Making 1500-2000 a day everday in baseball?
I am wondering if you meant pure gambling on the other books' weaker sides according to pinny's moves?

[jjgold]

Never thought of taking leads at Pinny first

I guess you can get our of bet at Matchy if line does not go way you want

[wantitall4moi]

go back and look up shit I posted last year. I think I threw up 30 or so plays in the baseball forums, I think all but 2 or 3 moved enough to show a profit. No one looked at them no one commented so I figured no one was interested so I stopped.

As for the question about betting a 'weak' book versus the pinny lean, no. Fantasy crap. Guys who believe in the Pinny lean are broke or going to be soon enough. Pinnacle moves on volume and thats it, they dont have opinions or gamble, they take a lot of action and have so many options they can afford to offer premium numbers.

They actually have less hold than the brokerage houses. But most guys dont know that. JJ talking about math and all that doesnt realize a guy betting At Pinnacle into a -127/120 line is paying less than a guy betting into a -123/123 line at Matchbook and paying 2% or whatever they charge commission.

You take the lead with the best numbers on the side you think will move. Vegas can actually have better numbers but generally on the 'wrong' side. So youre forced to take the lead at pinnacle for a few cents less but on the 'right' side.

I'll be in town the 6th through the first of may just fooling around. But I suspect I will make a nice chunk of change either way.

[indio]

Because, I honestly don't gamble on sports anymore, and hopefully will never do it again in life ever. I am a Christian and believe that any money I win from gambling could be a part of destroying someone's else life, and that this money would cause me rather troubles than any good. I have had enough big shocking losses in the past that have destroyed every good thing in my life. In fact, it was only my passion to most kinds of sports that had caused me to do this mistake in the past.

I imagine myself in a position of a player who scores a last minute goal or a last second buzzer beater and how he can cause a $5k or a $6k life changer bet to lose in 1 second and how would the person losing that bet personally hate this player, and feel more disgusted about gambling. Also, imagine yourself a sportsbook maker and how you feel being in the business of destroying lives everyday. For me, I would wish to die, before I occupy such an evil position.

Nothing more ridiculous than sanctimonious garbage such as this. The "genius" sports bettor who has an epiphany and realizes that gambling is the work of the devil and that booking a bet, or even winning a bet, destroys lives. And of course, this is because "I'm a christian", as if they are the only people in the world who have the true insight into the rights and wrongs of the world.

What do you do to earn a living? I guarantee whatever it is, there is someone being exploited somewhere in connection to it. Does that make you evil? No, so stop portraying those who gamble or in the gambling business as either predatory sharks or helpless lambs.

In fact, whatever denomination of Christianity you belong to, I guarantee I can find many destroyed lives linked to it's rise to prominence. And if you're Catholic, then I'll need at least 50 pages.

In fact, since the dawn of man, more deaths, war, and true suffering have been created by religion and the people who think they are doing God's work, and know what good and evil is, than anything else.

So why don't you go preach somewhere else. This is a gambling forum. We are gamblers who have been ostracized by mass media, politicians, and often members of our own family. We are denied simple freedoms of commerce exercised by other citizens who engage in similar activities, and we are prosecuted by our own government who are supposed to protect our liberties, not infringe on them. So a gambling forum, a place where fellow gamblers can stop and say a few words, a place where we can help each other not to get ripped off in this crazy business, is the LAST place someone like you should be stopping at to tell us how evil and unholy we all are.

[jjgold]

Ok leads then are the way to go vs the pinny lean

[Pete0]

What I meant was that if you only bet the side that pinnacle or similar A+ rated shops would offer you the worst price for, knowing where other bookmakers at, and persisting to still contrast the market. Then you will win 80% or 90% of your wagers. Please, note that I am talking here only about those lines where pinnacle offers you odds of may be -103 or -104 where they know that most other shops have these lines at +110 or +115 or if pinnacle offers you -122 or -125 knowing that most other markets will have it at may be -105. That's where you should only take the +115 or the -105 at the other shops. If you do this, you will extremely profit on the long run betting those lines and those lines ONLY.

Also to clarify, if you see Pinny have (lets say the Over on an NBA game at -111 and the Under at +101) then that alone doesn't give you an extra edge betting the Over at -110 at other shops. But you watch only for games that other shops will (let's say have the Over on the previous example at +100) and here only you should take the over. Ofcourse, that doesn't mean you will always profit following this theory, but I think that you would likely win more than 80% of those plays. If you still doubt it, please look at some previous arbs. replies and how are they down big, life time, hundreds of thousands at Pinny. Pinny offers these odds knowing that arbs. will be all over these lines when they see the big price difference at other shops and they more than welcome their action.

On my personal experience, I also see no explanation that I always deposit at the A rated book and never cash out while never deposit at the lower rated book and only cash out, if this theory was not true. I am very frustrated to see my balance keeps growing everyday at the lower rated book and be always at zero at the A rated books. In fact it is almost impossible to lose a wager at these low rated books. It is more difficult losing a wager at these books than winning a wager at an A rated book. The history I had speaks for itself. The winning run I had at the lower rated book by doing this, has reached (13) and (14) straight wins on two recent occasions with only 1 loss and 1 push. A streak that a real handicapper may never have been able to achieve if he tried to. Obviously, this is happening for a reason....

I doubt that.


From what I understand, its not really possible to "decipher" if you will- the pinny lean.
Simply saying that a Pinny price of -115 compared to weaker books with -105 is sharp will not give you consistent results.
It the price differential relative to the amount of action taken.
Meaning, you would need to know the dollar amounts on each side which obviously no book will disclose. - The missing variable to determine the strength of a lean.

line services like donbest, sportsoptions and give out only consensus , # or % of bets or something similar ( I think ?)
and they could be a mix of 10$ 1000$ wagers ....
the consensus on sbrodds is simply no. of bets from 5Dimes if i remember right.


Thoughts ??

[rowand13]

Nothing more ridiculous than sanctimonious garbage such as this. The "genius" sports bettor who has an epiphany and realizes that gambling is the work of the devil and that booking a bet, or even winning a bet, destroys lives. And of course, this is because "I'm a christian", as if they are the only people in the world who have the true insight into the rights and wrongs of the world.

What do you do to earn a living? I guarantee whatever it is, there is someone being exploited somewhere in connection to it. Does that make you evil? No, so stop portraying those who gamble or in the gambling business as either predatory sharks or helpless lambs.

In fact, whatever denomination of Christianity you belong to, I guarantee I can find many destroyed lives linked to it's rise to prominence. And if you're Catholic, then I'll need at least 50 pages.

In fact, since the dawn of man, more deaths, war, and true suffering have been created by religion and the people who think they are doing God's work, and know what good and evil is, than anything else.

So why don't you go preach somewhere else. This is a gambling forum. We are gamblers who have been ostracized by mass media, politicians, and often members of our own family. We are denied simple freedoms of commerce exercised by other citizens who engage in similar activities, and we are prosecuted by our own government who are supposed to protect our liberties, not infringe on them. So a gambling forum, a place where fellow gamblers can stop and say a few words, a place where we can help each other not to get ripped off in this crazy business, is the LAST place someone like you should be stopping at to tell us how evil and unholy we all are.

Sorry, indio. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings here. But, you know as we all do that we are all victims here. Victims of sportsbooks that would do anything they can to scam you, cheat you or even stiff you. So, please stop defending those who are in the gambling business, as you sure know that they feed off of our money, our lives, and our happiness. Please tell me how many times have you or someone you know got stiffed, got his money stolen for no legit reason, or got his life ruined because of a crook manager's decision, or even because of losing big chunks chasing losses. If it didn't happen to you, you know how many times it does happen to many players here everyday just reading these forums.

Not only you said that we are denied simple freedoms of commerce exercised by other citizens which I wouldn't consider to be that big of a loss, but you also admitted that we have been ostracized by mass media, politicians, and mostly important members of our own family which I believe to be our biggest loss. There could be someone being exploited somewhere in connection to any job, not our fault. But the difference here is, we know that always there has to be someone being exploited in this business. So, why all the suffering, lack of sleep, and loss of life quality?

Last year, I have lost about $8,000, due to the seizure of use-my-wallet which was a payment processor, while the funds were in transit to my bank account. I have had no way to get a single dollar back despite all the good work from many 2+2 forum posters which all fell to no avail. During that time, I wasn't eating or sleeping well at all. That, along with some other huge losses in the last few years had all urged me to stop, and will hopefully manage to. Sorry again, I didn't want to hurt your or anyone's else feelings as I respect you all.

[Hareeba!]

Sorry, indio. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings here. But, you know as we all do that we are all victims here. Victims of sportsbooks that would do anything they can to scam you, cheat you or even stiff you. So, please stop defending those who are in the gambling business, as you sure know that they feed off of our money, our lives, and our happiness. Please tell me how many times have you or someone you know got stiffed, got his money stolen for no legit reason, or got his life ruined because of a crook manager's decision, or even because of losing big chunks chasing losses. If it didn't happen to you, you know how many times it does happen to many players here everyday just reading these forums.

Personally I don't regard myself as a victim at all.

Most sportsbooks, and certainly those I use are not cheats and I know of nobody who's been stiffed by any of them.

You need to enter this game understanding the risks involved and avoid the bad options.

[rowand13]

Personally I don't regard myself as a victim at all.

Most sportsbooks, and certainly those I use are not cheats and I know of nobody who's been stiffed by any of them.

You need to enter this game understanding the risks involved and avoid the bad options.

If you are not a victim, then most of us here are. The evidence is that 99% of books are still doing business as usual, even when some of them got seized. And if you can't avoid the risk of losing, then you might not be winning.

[Hareeba!]

If you are not a victim, then most of us here are. The evidence is that 99% of books are still doing business as usual, even when some of them got seized. And if you can't avoid the risk of losing, then you are not winning.

I had nothing to do with any books which got seized. Of course I risk losing (I'm not an arber) but I am winning so what does that do for your theories?

Frankly I can't figure out what you are doing here if you don't bet. Clearly you don't have much of a clue about the realities of the game.

[rowand13]

I had nothing to do with any books which got seized. Of course I risk losing (I'm not an arber) but I am winning so what does that do for your theories?

Frankly I can't figure out what you are doing here if you don't bet. Clearly you don't have much of a clue about the realities of the game.

Meant to say, if you can't avoid the risk of losing then you might not be winning. Just edited my post. Even though I don't think that all posters here are gamblers or have to be, I don't think I am going to be here for long.

[CrazyCarl]

Nothing more ridiculous than sanctimonious garbage such as this. The "genius" sports bettor who has an epiphany and realizes that gambling is the work of the devil and that booking a bet, or even winning a bet, destroys lives. And of course, this is because "I'm a christian", as if they are the only people in the world who have the true insight into the rights and wrongs of the world.

What do you do to earn a living? I guarantee whatever it is, there is someone being exploited somewhere in connection to it. Does that make you evil? No, so stop portraying those who gamble or in the gambling business as either predatory sharks or helpless lambs.

In fact, whatever denomination of Christianity you belong to, I guarantee I can find many destroyed lives linked to it's rise to prominence. And if you're Catholic, then I'll need at least 50 pages.

In fact, since the dawn of man, more deaths, war, and true suffering have been created by religion and the people who think they are doing God's work, and know what good and evil is, than anything else.

So why don't you go preach somewhere else. This is a gambling forum. We are gamblers who have been ostracized by mass media, politicians, and often members of our own family. We are denied simple freedoms of commerce exercised by other citizens who engage in similar activities, and we are prosecuted by our own government who are supposed to protect our liberties, not infringe on them. So a gambling forum, a place where fellow gamblers can stop and say a few words, a place where we can help each other not to get ripped off in this crazy business, is the LAST place someone like you should be stopping at to tell us how evil and unholy we all are.

This post wins the thread by far despite not responding at all to the OP.

Well done.

[Smoke]

Because, I honestly don't gamble on sports anymore, and hopefully will never do it again in life ever. I am a Christian and believe that any money I win from gambling could be a part of destroying someone's else life, and that this money would cause me rather troubles than any good. I have had enough big shocking losses in the past that have destroyed every good thing in my life. In fact, it was only my passion to most kinds of sports that had caused me to do this mistake in the past.

I imagine myself in a position of a player who scores a last minute goal or a last second buzzer beater and how he can cause a $5k or a $6k life changer bet to lose in 1 second and how would the person losing that bet personally hate this player, and feel more disgusted about gambling. Also, imagine yourself a sportsbook maker and how you feel being in the business of destroying lives everyday. For me, I would wish to die, before I occupy such an evil position.

best post in this thread