[Kaladarus]

Easy solution for everyone here... move to Canada.

[teaserpleaser]

Edit

[Masu485]

Yes in 30 years you will make 100k a year problem is in 2040 100k will equal 35k today

Do you really think you're going to be making 300k a year to do taxes in 2040? Keep dreamin bro, I assure you no boss is gonna pay you 300k to audit the books, in fact youll prolly be fired bc you're making too much and he can hire a young person for half the price to do the same job

These people don't understand. I hate when people think it's only your fault you're poor and that working 60+ hours/week is normal.

Newsflash, the people who make the MOST money, haven't worked harder than anyone else!

[gauchojake]

5 years ago when the economy was booming, every college grad expected 60k a year to start. I know because I interviewed a lot of self entitled a-holes for entry level jobs that paid half of that. There is a sense among a lot of younger people these days that they deserve something just because they went to college. Blaming Wall Street and corporations for their problems... give me a break.

The reality is that no matter the state of the economy, there is always opportunity. No one will hand it to you though. You gotta hustle, work hard, and if you need to get two jobs, then get two jobs. If those jobs are working at a restaurant washing dishes and cutting lawns, then guess what...suck it up and stop blaming other people for your problems.

[bettilimbroke999]

Amazing how many ppl think washing dishes for min wage is a great opportunity, kinda sad that we spend countless billions on public education to prepare ppl for the fields of washing dishes and cutting grass.

[denn333]

education use to mean something in the job market.

[dxunchuk]

we (casual people) are moving towards deep shit

[teaserpleaser]

Amazing how many ppl think washing dishes for min wage is a great opportunity, kinda sad that we spend countless billions on public education to prepare ppl for the fields of washing dishes and cutting grass.

clear you live in memphis nobody born here is cutting grass or washing dishes.... For some time now

[iFrat]

Newsflash, the people who make the MOST money, haven't worked harder than anyone else!

Spoken like a true broke asshole. You look at what people have now, instead of THE WORK they had to do to get to where they are today. Do you think multi million dollar company's were created overnight? or even small business that make a few hundred k a year.

People like you look at someone like that and say shit like "man he is on easy street, look how lucky he is. He barely has to work and look at everything he has."
When in fact luck had nothing to do with it. He busted his ass for 5-10 years and made something for himself.

The reality is that you prob aren't going to be "Super Rich" working for someone your whole life. It's the people who can learn from others and have the initiative to go out and work for themselfs that do this. THIS TAKES HARD WORK. Most people don't want to do the work it takes to get there. Instead of takng experience from the work they do and think of ways to apply it to their life they would rather sit back and bitch about there job and punch a time card.


Unfortunately someone has to make the fukin sandwiches to make the world go round. What makes America great is that no one is stoping the sandwich guy from being successful other than himself.

You either have the motivation to make something out of yourself or you don't. But don't blame others on your choices in life, or expect a handout because someone is making more money than you. Chances are they deserve it.

[Masu485]

Spoken like a true broke asshole. You look at what people have now, instead of THE WORK they had to do to get to where they are today. Do you think multi million dollar company's were created overnight? or even small business that make a few hundred k a year.

People like you look at someone like that and say shit like "man he is on easy street, look how lucky he is. He barely has to work and look at everything he has."
When in fact luck had nothing to do with it. He busted his ass for 5-10 years and made something for himself.

The reality is that you prob aren't going to be "Super Rich" working for someone your whole life. It's the people who can learn from others and have the initiative to go out and work for themselfs that do this. THIS TAKES HARD WORK. Most people don't want to do the work it takes to get there. Instead of takng experience from the work they do and think of ways to apply it to their life they would rather sit back and bitch about there job and punch a time card.


Unfortunately someone has to make the fukin sandwiches to make the world go round. What makes America great is that no one is stoping the sandwich guy from being successful other than himself.

You either have the motivation to make something out of yourself or you don't. But don't blame others on your choices in life, or expect a handout because someone is making more money than you. Chances are they deserve it.

I specifically wrote the verb in PAST TENSE because I knew some clown would come in here saying the same shit you just said. I'm saying these people did not work any harder than other hard working Americans. They are where they are today because of connections, family name, or they just got lucky.

Even Oprah's story is BS to me. Yes, I think she worked hard, but I know she had to be extremely lucky to have become the success she is today. If small things had gone the other way, Oprah would never have made it. I'm sure many many women have worked just as hard as Oprah, yet are still waiting tables.

Ask any self-made rich person how they became successful, and after they tell you it was hard work etc... they'll eventually say something along the lines of 'well, things just kind of worked out for me'. That is called luck, and proves success has little to do with hard work.

While hard work has little to do with success, the main components are:

- Family
- Economic background
- Appearance
- Race
- Gender
- Luck

All things you cannot control.

So enough with the naive 'work hard and you will succeed' mythology. Because the people who make the most in their lives I guarantee have worked less than the people who make the least.

[iFrat]

I specifically wrote the verb in PAST TENSE because I knew some clown would come in here saying the same shit you just said. I'm saying these people did not work any harder than other hard working Americans. They are where they are today because of connections, family name, or they just got lucky.

I understood what you said. You CLEARLY DIDN'T comprehend what I wrote. And you VERY CLEARLY fall into the category of the people I just described. Let me try and break it down more I guess.

Are there hard working Americans? Sure no ones arguing that. The question that you need to ask is what are these hardworking Americans doing to better their life other than showing up to work and punching a time card? Most aren't doing anything, and some arent even going to work at all! The poorman would answer this question by saying, "Well I picked up a 2nd job, or a picked up more hours".

Again look back at what I said. You aren't going to become part of the "Super Rich" by working for someone else your whole life. Very few people have the drive to take the knowledge/experience that they have and use it to make themselves successful. It's not easy, and you are going to have many bumps down the road.

Even Oprah's story is BS to me. Yes, I think she worked hard, but I know she had to be extremely lucky to have become the success she is today. If small things had gone the other way, Oprah would never have made it. I'm sure many many women have worked just as hard as Oprah, yet are still waiting tables.

Again here is that word again "LUCK". If small things had gone the other way Oprah would never have made it? Do you think she just coasted through her career and ended up a billionaire? When obstacles present themselves you either push through them or you give up. Do good things happen to successful people? SURE they do, but what allowed those individuals to get to a point where those opportunities were available to them? Again I go back to what I said before. What is the waitress doing to better herself? What's stopping her from learning the resteraunt bussiness? She's there atleast 8hrs a day? Gain knowledge/experience and apply it to your life. But again it's not going to be as easy as just managing your tables and punching a time card.

Ask any self-made rich person how they became successful, and after they tell you it was hard work etc... they'll eventually say something along the lines of 'well, things just kind of worked out for me'. That is called luck, and proves success has little to do with hard work.

This just isn't true. I understand that you honestly probably believe this, but it's not. Are there people that fall ass backwards into money, sure. But for most successful people this couldn't be further from the truth.
I'll borrow a word from you and say that they made their own "luck".

While hard work has little to do with success, the main components are:

- Family
- Economic background
- Appearance
- Race
- Gender
- Luck
All things you cannot control.

If thats the case whats the mold of being succesful, and why isn't everyone else who fits into it millionaires? Also how do you explain people that fall outside of this mold that are succesful?

So enough with the naive 'work hard and you will succeed' mythology. Because the people who make the most in their lives I guarantee have worked less than the people who make the least.

The fact that this is what you got out of my original post only proves my point even more. Im curious what your stances on taxes are, although I'm sure I have a good idea of where you stand on that issue as well. With your attitude you will never understand, and you will go through life wondering why YOU never got "LUCKY"

[bettilimbroke999]

clear you live in memphis nobody born here is cutting grass or washing dishes.... For some time now

Agreed, they're just getting paid like they are

[gauchojake]

Washing dishes is not a great opportunity, but if you had to chose between washing dishes and not eating, what would you do? If you are too inept to get to the higher levels of income but needed to live, what would you do? Too many people reach for the teat and wait for someone to bail them out.

There is a need for castes and classes simply because some people are just not smart enough to make it to Bill Gates status. Fukk most people aren't even smart enough to make it to gauchojake status. In the immortal words of Judge Smails, "The world needs ditch diggers too"

[bettilimbroke999]

Okay gaucho, I understand you feel that the majority of citizens are intellectually inferior to you and incapable of anything greater than ditch digging and should be paid around minimum wage. Judging from your posts I find that highly unlikely but lets just assume its correct for the sake of argument.

So is your opinion the majority of Americans should be living off welfare or that minimum wage should be raised to a "living wage" so that the government doesn't have to step in to make up for the greedy employers paying them slave wages?

Also what about my friend with the CPA and master's in accounting making less than 40k a year after 5 years with the same CPA firm, I can assure you he is both intelligent and a hard worker but with 6k a year for the next 30 years going to pay for student loans (he went for 6 years) and taxes on his income he makes little more than a 50 hour a week dish washer (he works 50 hours a week as a CPA). Clearly you find the opportunity to net 38k pay-6k student loans-4k income tax = 28k a year to be a fantastic opportunity but when you consider that a dishwasher working 50 hours at 8 an hour will make 440/wk or 23k a year and not in debt 80k and not have to pay hardly any income taxes there is a thin line between dishwasher and CPA, in today's world however both are essentially broke.

[bettilimbroke999]

The US has really become a country of business owner's and slaves, you either own the slaves or ARE the slave, the quicker you realize that the better. Unfortunately as corporations like Wal-Mart put all the family owned and smaller businesses out of business there are fewer and fewer opportunities for the little guy to succeed. Owning a service business (which is largely devoid of the economies of scale that make Kroger, Costco and Wal-Mart the only places to shop for groceries anymore) and real estate rental (as the housing market crashes and the average joe is laid off and unable to pay his mortgage and gets thrown out into the street you can buy the property for substantial savings then rent it to him for twice what you paid) are a couple of the opportunities remaining to the average citizen to make a better than minimum wage.

[TheMoneyShot]

When I was in high school I made $6/hr to work at a bowling lanes running the machines in the back (min wage was $5.15/hr). All the people that worked with me were 30+ years old and had to repair the machines if they broke down and all made a good bit more money than I did. I would say they averaged 10 bucks an hour and consistently got overtime, not great pay but it was roughly twice min wage + OT paid time and a half.

Fast forward 15 years and if you have a job making twice minimum wage or more (15 dollars and hour+) you are doing extremely well. That would translate at 50 hours a week to 820 a week or around 42k a year. This is what those idiot bowling lane workers were making when I was 16, now a twice minimum wage job is reserved for managers only, hell my friend is a CPA and only makes 35k a year and owes 80k in college loans.

My thoughts on the matter is that wages other than minimum wage seem to have remained virtually frozen for the past 20 years while minimum wage has risen (only bc it would be illegal to pay less).

Are we 15-20 years from minimum wage catching the frozen standard wage and becoming the standard wage for all jobs or has minimum wage ALREADY BECOME the standard? Hell at Wal-Mart they give 25 cent raises every 6 months (after starting you out at min wage) and max pay at 10 bucks/hour, so after working for 6 years you are "rewarded" by making 400 bucks a week or 20k a year for 40 hours/week (the managers would slit their wrists if an employee ever got OT).

When you consider that San Francisco just made their minimum wage over 10 bucks an hour this is rather amazing. One has to wonder how long Wal-Mart will keep a 10/hour cap on employee wages. Are we just moving to a society where the minimum wage is about what you should expect to get paid for any normal job? Considering the high rate of unemployment in this country many would be very happy to get a 10/hour job so do employers really have to pay more than minimum wage to attract employees?

Can a person live on minimum wage (300/week or 15k a year)? More importantly could anyone support children on so low a wage without welfare assistance? If it becomes or already is the standard should it be raised to a level where those receiving near min wage pay are not in poverty?

First of all BB I also worked at a bowling alley in 1994. It was my first job ever. My starting wage was $4.35 an hour. I believe that was Michigan's minimum wage back then. I believe when you're 17-18 you can't expect much as a working kid. Your goal is to learn a system, learn balance, organizational skills, and the company's system. My mom always taught me to work hard. In fact, I've never taken a day off in my working career. Yes, I've worked through 102 temperature's (illnesses), deaths in my family, and tragic situations. That's just the way I was raised.

Now, being a business owner from age 25-34... I've realized that the employer will gladly pay you what you're worth. You may not think so... but they will. I use to have a girl who was my manager and she was making $10 an hour. She did everything for me... If I wanted my co#$ sucked... she'd do that too. Point is... she was a hard worker. She was very professional with the customers and she cared about their needs. For instance... my field is the tanning industry... and I will admit to you... the current minimum wage in Michigan is $7.40 an hour... and let me tell you... these girls AREN'T WORTH IT! The girls who just graduated out of high school sit and text all day... they are on facebook on their phone... why should I even give them minimum wage??? Because it's a law? Honestly, it should be lowered. Every girl who works for me starting out I give them $7.50 an hour... but they never get a raise because they don't produce. I have cameras all over the lobby... a direct feed comes to my residence computer... they are always screwing around. I wasn't ever like that. I got my work done.

My point is... the Wal-Mart's, the HP's, the Office Depot's or whatever national chain is paying minimum wage... it has nothing to do with slave work. THE PEOPLE JUST DON'T WORK! Have some dedication in your life. Show some strength. Show some determination. If you lead... you will make a very high hourly wage without a college degree or even college education for that matter. Company's pay minimum wage because the workers are unambitious, uneducated, show no desire, and no interest to do their job correctly.

[TheMoneyShot]

I also laugh at the media saying there aren't any jobs! LOL What are they talking about? NOBODY WANTS TO WORK!!!! If someone would produce... I'd give them a job tomorrow... and bump any girl...

[Walter Abrams]

Some good posts in this thread. Its always hilarious to see people claim they have worked from the ground up, when their parents or family helped them to get where they are today. Education is something that can never be taken away. The only problem is the cost of education is rising every day. Pretty soon only rich people will be able to afford higher education for their children. Grants can only take you so far so the only other option is taking out loans. Everyone is in debt one way or another, so being in debt in exchange for a piece of paper that says "Im smarter than most" is not that bad of a investment IMO. It has to be nice for kids born into money. No debt AND the piece of paper. They get to trot around forums bragging "I worked from the ground up with no help from anyone!" In reality though those same people would be lost like Denzel in the book of Eli without family backing. Eli did find his direction. Without any help from the girl though he would have wondered aimlessly.

I have no complaints or envy for those people. I know the information I will pass down to my kids could never be taught in a classroom or a family dinner inside a gated community. Those are the people that blame their unhappiness on others. Pointing the finger at the poor blaming them for the problems they deal with daily. Money dont make the man, man makes the money. Money comes and money goes but being able to make a dollar out of 15cents is a trait that can only be aquired from parents that REALLY came from the ground up.

[Walter Abrams]

First of all BB I also worked at a bowling alley in 1994. It was my first job ever. My starting wage was $4.35 an hour. I believe that was Michigan's minimum wage back then. I believe when you're 17-18 you can't expect much as a working kid. Your goal is to learn a system, learn balance, organizational skills, and the company's system. My mom always taught me to work hard. In fact, I've never taken a day off in my working career. Yes, I've worked through 102 temperature's (illnesses), deaths in my family, and tragic situations. That's just the way I was raised.

Now, being a business owner from age 25-34... I've realized that the employer will gladly pay you what you're worth. You may not think so... but they will. I use to have a girl who was my manager and she was making $10 an hour. She did everything for me... If I wanted my co#$ sucked... she'd do that too. Point is... she was a hard worker. She was very professional with the customers and she cared about their needs. For instance... my field is the tanning industry... and I will admit to you... the current minimum wage in Michigan is $7.40 an hour... and let me tell you... these girls AREN'T WORTH IT! The girls who just graduated out of high school sit and text all day... they are on facebook on their phone... why should I even give them minimum wage??? Because it's a law? Honestly, it should be lowered. Every girl who works for me starting out I give them $7.50 an hour... but they never get a raise because they don't produce. I have cameras all over the lobby... a direct feed comes to my residence computer... they are always screwing around. I wasn't ever like that. I got my work done.

My point is... the Wal-Mart's, the HP's, the Office Depot's or whatever national chain is paying minimum wage... it has nothing to do with slave work. THE PEOPLE JUST DON'T WORK! Have some dedication in your life. Show some strength. Show some determination. If you lead... you will make a very high hourly wage without a college degree or even college education for that matter. Company's pay minimum wage because the workers are unambitious, uneducated, show no desire, and no interest to do their job correctly.

Blah Blah Blah. You made girls blow you for their job. Business owned at 25 and never had any family backing? LMFAO. You couldnt last a day doing any type of real labor job. 10 hour day slave labor for $8hr. Yet you sit on your high horse because of what your family set you up with. Looking down on someone that has to be a slave at wal mart saying "they dont want to work" Enjoy your xmas bonus check from the family this year. Take a quarter out of the check and buy yourself a personality.

[TheMoneyShot]

You make zero sense Walter. Have a clue in life.

[icancount2one]

The decline in the standard of living has more to do with the rising costs of gas and healthcare than anything else.

Also, the fact that people are working "under the table" for less than minimum wage (trying to double up on benefits or undocumented) drives down the floor of labor cost. Defacto minimum wage is more like $5/hr regardless of what the gov't says.

Most of the people I see bitching have smartphones, HDTVs, a next-gen game system, and a decent computer with internet access, so to even compare our "suffering" to the great depression is pretty ridiculous.

[Walter Abrams]

You make zero sense Walter. Have a clue in life.

Tell this forum you own your own business at 25 years old without any help from your family, and ill retract what I said to you in the previous post. Also, please share with the forum how you were able to make something out of nothing. That type of knowledge is priceless. I highly doubt you have a 1 ounce of that in your bloodstream, but hearing someone try to hustle a huslter is always worth the price of admission.

[Walter Abrams]

The decline in the standard of living has more to do with the rising costs of gas and healthcare than anything else.

Also, the fact that people are working "under the table" for less than minimum wage (trying to double up on benefits or undocumented) drives down the floor of labor cost. Defacto minimum wage is more like $5/hr regardless of what the gov't says.

Most of the people I see bitching have smartphones, HDTVs, a next-gen game system, and a decent computer with internet access, so to even compare our "suffering" to the great depression is pretty ridiculous.

Hmm. So what year did a used smartphone bought from ebay, or a used TV bought from craigslist become a asset? What year did those items become relevant to ones net worth? Is it possible the envy you have for the next man is seeping out? Does it bother you I can get (or anyone else for that matter that is resourceful) a $1500 HDTV on sale at best buy for around $500? You go pay top dollar for everything you buy, then get mad when you see your neighbor wearing a $20 outfit with the same top dollar items items you bought a week earlier. All that translates into is that your neighbor knows how to strike a deal. The people that envy thy neighbor have assets, yet they cry about the neighbors TV. Hilarious

[Masu485]

I love this Walter guy!

[TheMoneyShot]

Ok wise one. Any person knows that back in in the Summer of 2002 the economy was good. My credit score was around a 780. People weren't really using the internet "as much"... instead of applying for cc accts at banks... (using the paper hand out and mailing it...) I decided to open up 8 browsers on my computer. I went to 8 different banking websites. I applied online. I made sure all the information was accurate. I made sure I didn't send in the data yet. Like I said... I made sure all the data was accurate to each number. I didn't want the system to backfire on me. My theory was if I hit the send button in under a minute on all 8 screens chances are the CC company wouldn't decline it. So cut the story short... 6 were approved... 2 were declined. A total of $50,000 working capital. I gave the owner $20,000 down and made monthly installments for 1 year. I took the other $10,000 and remodeled. I took the other $20,000 and purchased all new tanning equipment. I paid off the entire loan and heavy interest within 3 years. I purchased my next salon in 2005. Again, $20,000 down.... and pay as you go.

Yes, it was an unusual situation... every bank said no to me on my business loan. They didn't like my business plan... they said it was too much of a risk. That's why I opened up all of those cc accts at once. I had no idea I would get a $50k working capital. I was just trying to see if it would actually work? If it didn't... or I wasn't given enough funds to work with... I would of just closed the accounts.

I try to think outside the box... but I appreciate you putting me down. Thank You.

And if you're saying what if you failed??? What if the business crumbled??? That's what personal bankruptcy is for in life. There's always an out.

[Walter Abrams]

Ok wise one. Any person knows that back in in the Summer of 2002 the economy was good. My credit score was around a 780. People weren't really using the internet "as much"... instead of applying for cc accts at banks... (using the paper hand out and mailing it...) I decided to open up 8 browsers on my computer. I went to 8 different banks. I applied online. I made sure all the information was accurate. I made sure I didn't send in the data yet. Like I said... I made sure all the data was accurate to each number. I didn't want the system to backfire on me. My theory was if I hit the send button in under a minute on all 8 screens chances are the CC company wouldn't decline it. So cut the story short... 6 were approved... 2 were declined. A total of $50,000 working capital. I gave the owner $20,000 down and made monthly installments for 1 year. I took the other $10,000 and remodeled. I took the other $20,000 and purchased all new tanning equipment. I paid off the entire loan and heavy interest within 3 years. I purchased my next salon in 2005. Again, $20,000 down.... and pay as you go.

Yes, it was an unusual situation... every bank said no to me on my business loan. They didn't like my business plan... they said it was too much of a risk. That's why I opened up all of those cc accts at once. I had no idea I would get a $50k working capital. I was just trying to see if it would actually work? If it didn't... or I wasn't given enough funds to work with... I would of just closed the accounts.

I try to think outside the box... but I appreciate you putting me down. Thank You.

Hmm. So you were like 17 with a credit score of 780. How would that be possible to have a credit score like that at such a young age? Dont answer that. Bottom line is be happy with where you are today. Be happy you have a job. There are people right now sleeping under a bridge in the freezing cold. No need to complain about anyone else IF you are happy with your own life. People that complain about others are very unhappy regardless of their financial situation. Oh and by the way....

[TheMoneyShot]

If you followed the story you moron... and read everything I was 25 years old.

[TheMoneyShot]

There are also people with a crack pipe in their mouth under a bridge too...

[muldoon]

Most of the people I see bitching have smartphones, HDTVs, a next-gen game system, and a decent computer with internet access, so to even compare our "suffering" to the great depression is pretty ridiculous.

You see people bitching, then go check out what kind of tech gear they have at home?

[onlooker]

You see people bitching, then go check out what kind of tech gear they have at home?

[bettilimbroke999]

Themoneyshot is your classic lazy business owner, as I say in this country you either own the slaves or ARE the slave. Depending on the moneyshots of the world to pay you a decent wage is comical, he pays a manager 10 bucks/hr and brags about it like she's driving a ferrari and feels he should get bjs as well for paying a manager 20k a year. On the positive side though moneyshot followed one of my suggestions on how to succeed by opening a service oriented business which basically involves paying the producers of his wealth slave wages that they couldn't support a goldfish on whilst bitchin about how lazy and unmotivated they are and bragging about creating jobs and how he deserves bjs from his slaves for overpaying them (even though they are getting virtually nothing and it would be illegal to pay them less).

[McBa1n]

Really liked the OP.
I can make about the same I made when I was 16 years old now. In fact, for full time, I'd make less than a buck more... If I just went out and took a generic job at one of the 'boomtown' places (target, walmart, and whatever f'n store you can shovel in due to your region).

I remember working at Caldor as a 16 yr old (a now defunct dept store) - and guys that needed their FT jobs worked Sundays also, as well as another job. They did that to LIVE (rents, to be fair, were 600+/month where I was in the early 90s - right now, you'd be lucky to get close to that, in fact, you're looking 400+bux more/month at the same place now).

Most of those guys in the 90s that did what they did, I can't keep touch with now. They are all dead. None of those guys took government money. They all worked hard, and most of them died of starvation and/or 0 healthcare. The majority ended up working jobs that paid current min wage. They paid their taxes and they worked REAL hard. It's a damn shame, all those guys, almost 3 decades ago are all dead. But that's the new 'Bush'/neocon economy. Aristocracy begets what we have now - it's more than a plutocracy - it's straight up facism/corporatization of EVERYTHING (remember WW2, we lost 10,000s of 100,000s of men fighting that)

Some time ago, you could work a shit job and make ends. Today? You're screwed, even with strong acedemic pedigree. I am thankful I had the opportunities I did in college. I worked my ass off at a bullshit university that had, probably, the best communications dept in the US/per dollar (Syracuse is WAY over-rated for media study). Meh, f my life experience.

What IS hilarious, and almost comical, to me, is that RED states vote Republican. I realize BOTH parties are total bullshit - but Red Staters vote on things like abortion rather than economy. They vote for their love of baby jesus over the fact that big business and the Facist government. The current (R) is as fascist as ANY leader in history (even over that dickbag in Italy we took down that made 'trains run on time', which was also false) - congress votes on what gets them elected again. At least the Dems TRY to help out poor people - but if that adds to the deficit? O M F G. Learn economics and history, first. Inflation will maul us all, yet, it will make those debts very easy (TY, Fed). Again, do your study.

The middle class is dead, even the lower end of the middle class. If you disagree, then go find work if you don't have tremendous pedigree or a sellable skill that not many have.

Again, if you're watching fox, you're screwing EVERYONE over. You're part of the problem. And I hope you lose everything. You're f'n stupid and your argument is formulated in a room of 'PR' specialists like Frank Luntz, whom I respect a TON (he's a f'n genious at making dumbasses think what they do, which is the current (R) 'base'). Just saying, we're all screwed with the current political state.

It would be better for an SBR millionaire to step up and debate, but it won't happen in ANY of our lifetimes. I'd be happy to have that live debate anytime.

[TheMoneyShot]

BB - The classic lazy business owner??? Don't quite get the analogy? Have you ever managed a business? Owned a business? I pay payroll tax just like any other business owner. Once you're in business you ponder over a lot of things... such as... are all owners working for the government? Hence... all the taxes etc. I'm not a Wal-Mart BB... I'm a small business owner. I'm still working for myself. But, I'm calling the shots.

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of this thread is? Are you pissed off at businesses in general? The economy? The government? What exactly are you suggesting?

BB - I'm just a funny guy. Down to earth just like most of the folks here. I don't really cared to be stereotyped as the "I don't care business owner" because I do care. We (business wise) have to make moves just like any other business... flower shops... pizza place... bar owners... etc. In fact... speaking of bars... my buddy went in half with another guy in on a bar. Seems like people still find a way to drink their sorrows away? Says it was the best move he ever made. Use to be a mortgage lender. Had his own business.

You have to be savvy in making a decision. We only seem to hear the "amazing" moves in business... but trust me... there are others who took a fall... those stories just never make the headlines.

I didn't mean to sound like I'm a know it all... because I'm not. I'm just not afraid of risk. All the best.

[TexansFan]

Bettil

This is why the Rich keep getting richer and why the American dream is on life support..

No the rich are rich because they don't work minimum wage jobs. They go to college, grad school, work their asses off, whatever it takes to be successful.

Anybody can be successful in life. The problem is a lot of people just want shit given to them without putting in the effort.

[TexansFan]

Hey, the world needs ditch diggers, dish washers, and people to work low paying jobs. If you're one of those working them then too bad, you had your chances and you blew it.