[zsr]

The kapono signing is also sneaky good. They were missing a 3 point specialist off the bench

[William Walters]

sure transfer the 10 points over

You think bynum will finally have a healthy season though?

Overall, yes. One can never predict getting rolled up on and suffering a major injury, but I think that other than a game here or there........he'll be fine.

[William Walters]

The kapono signing is also sneaky good. They were missing a 3 point specialist off the bench

[wantitall4moi]

Bynum is already missing 5 games, so that means he gets 60 tops. If he gets a 'legit' injury he is under 50 pretty quick, to lay -120 he gets less than 50 isnt a bad bet. Under 45 for even money over 45 for -140. So 50 games for him is probably the 'true' over under.

Also Kapono being sneaky. You really think Kobe is going to let him make a difference? He hated when Horrey got a couple game winning shots and horrey is a legend compared to kapono. Kapono will get lost in the shuffle and when they could really use his specialty he wont even be on the floor. He will have a bunch of empty stats in games that are blow outs for them.

What happens if Kobe gets hurt? That is probably ther best thing you can say about Kobe bryant, he doesnt miss games. But he is playing on lehs with about 19 seasons worth of game on them, so he has nowhere near 3 good years left. I think he took a step back last year, and this year will really show it as they start playing 6 or 7 games in 8 nights. Thats when guys get injured. Old broken down guys playing through small pain ge injured. So his best 'asset', his willingness to play with some pain might cost him a real injury. Obvioously cant predict that but you can expect it.

So if Kobe goes down and misses say 15 games or so then what? The one time he missed extended time they had a couple other hall of fame and all star type guys there to pick up the slack. With a healthy kobe theyll struggle to win 35 games IMO, if he is hurt they might not win 25. I looked at the schedule, they look like a 30-33 win team, which has them at 500 or a little below. And with such a tight schedule the margin of error is really small maybe 3-4 games so best case they win 37 games, worst case they win 27, so obviously a big spread. Same as everyone else. "bad beats' really might matter this year.

If it were me the season would be something like this schedule they have for the shortened season. We might actually start seeing guys try a little bit for more than a dozen games. But after 50 games if you have all but maybe 3 or 4 teams with a shot it could actually be interesting, and 23-27 might be enough to have a shot.

[William Walters]

Bynum is already missing 5 games, so that means he gets 60 tops. If he gets a 'legit' injury he is under 50 pretty quick, to lay -120 he gets less than 50 isnt a bad bet. Under 45 for even money over 45 for -140. So 50 games for him is probably the 'true' over under.

Also Kapono being sneaky. You really think Kobe is going to let him make a difference? He hated when Horrey got a couple game winning shots and horrey is a legend compared to kapono. Kapono will get lost in the shuffle and when they could really use his specialty he wont even be on the floor. He will have a bunch of empty stats in games that are blow outs for them.

What happens if Kobe gets hurt? That is probably ther best thing you can say about Kobe bryant, he doesnt miss games. But he is playing on lehs with about 19 seasons worth of game on them, so he has nowhere near 3 good years left. I think he took a step back last year, and this year will really show it as they start playing 6 or 7 games in 8 nights. Thats when guys get injured. Old broken down guys playing through small pain ge injured. So his best 'asset', his willingness to play with some pain might cost him a real injury. Obvioously cant predict that but you can expect it.

So if Kobe goes down and misses say 15 games or so then what? The one time he missed extended time they had a couple other hall of fame and all star type guys there to pick up the slack. With a healthy kobe theyll struggle to win 35 games IMO, if he is hurt they might not win 25. I looked at the schedule, they look like a 30-33 win team, which has them at 500 or a little below. And with such a tight schedule the margin of error is really small maybe 3-4 games so best case they win 37 games, worst case they win 27, so obviously a big spread. Same as everyone else. "bad beats' really might matter this year.

If it were me the season would be something like this schedule they have for the shortened season. We might actually start seeing guys try a little bit for more than a dozen games. But after 50 games if you have all but maybe 3 or 4 teams with a shot it could actually be interesting, and 23-27 might be enough to have a shot.

Your jealousy of the Lakers and all of their success has sent you off the deep end now. Get a grip and return later with a clear head. Thanks.

[zsr]

Kapano should get decent minutes with the 2nd team, I think he'll make a bigger impact then your giving him credit for. They didn't have anybody who could hit a 3 last year. Steve Blake should bounce back. Barnes is finally healthy. Bynum is always a giant question mark obviously so not even worth arguing about him, I will say I think they'll be in trouble if he suffers another significant injury with the lack of depth. I just don't think your giving them enough credit, but no use arguing over it now though the season starts next week so we will see.

I agree with your last point though, the back to backs will be awesome for fans and it could be a log jam for the last playoff spots in both conferences. Im excited, should be a good year

[HoulihansTX]

No Bynum or Kobe the first week of the season.

They can start the season a solid 0-5. Would be awesome.

[wantitall4moi]

Lakers are a disaster. They had a couple guys play out of their heads last night and still got beat. Granted its pre season and no kobe, but the guy who replaced Kobe played like an all star, and the cricket looking kid was like 80% from the 3 pt line. Not to mention Artest caught lightening in a bottle and got a couple 3 to drop. Those things wont be a regular occurrence thats for sure.

Bynum also played out of his head. But I will say this if he can deliver that every game he plays then Lakers will squeak into theplay offs. But the chances of seeing THAT andrew bynum in the 61 games he 'should' play are very very slim.

Lakers still cant play defense, as in theyre still too slow, just like Dallas exposed them last year as a slow old team. They turn the ball over way too much. That should get better. But really how can it get worse? They have like 40 turnovers in two games and it wasnt like the Clippers were playing all that great a defense. Just dribbling off their own feet, throwing shit over the back board and high school type stuff.

But yeah if Lakers really lose 4 of their more important guys for the first few games they have serious issues. I suspect Kobe will try and play by the third game, which will probably be worse not better. Or they might throw out all the stops and give themselves away to get Howard. But the way Bynum looked last night and if they think he will be that guy going forward the price will be too high for howard.

Pre season is preseason but teams played last night (across the league) like it was a regular season game. LA had like 15 guys suit up last night and Lakers still only played 7. So so much for giving these guys time to show what they can do either for the Lakers or any other scouts around. It was a game like rotation for the Lakers and they lost. If anything the guys lauding Kapono, I wouldnt doubt a guy like Brown puts him on the bench and lets Blake take his place, pretty apparent he made a major change last night when kapono played like ass. The original excuse could have been foul trouble but then it was just clear he was lost. I dont think he even attempted a shot.

Should be interesting to say the least. If they start out 0-7 or something like that will be interesting to see if they make a move or mail it in. Obviously the fan boys of Kobe will scream and say that will never happen. yeah but Kobe is old and beat down and he could have a built in excuse witht his wrist thing to get surgery, especially after he let the finger thing go that got complicated, and just look for someone inthe draft, and then get Howard cheap when he is unrestricted. Like I say might be interesting. One bad season isnt gong to turn laker fans off.

[William Walters]

Lakers are a disaster. They had a couple guys play out of their heads last night and still got beat. Granted its pre season and no kobe, but the guy who replaced Kobe played like an all star, and the cricket looking kid was like 80% from the 3 pt line. Not to mention Artest caught lightening in a bottle and got a couple 3 to drop. Those things wont be a regular occurrence thats for sure.

Bynum also played out of his head. But I will say this if he can deliver that every game he plays then Lakers will squeak into theplay offs. But the chances of seeing THAT andrew bynum in the 61 games he 'should' play are very very slim.

Lakers still cant play defense, as in theyre still too slow, just like Dallas exposed them last year as a slow old team. They turn the ball over way too much. That should get better. But really how can it get worse? They have like 40 turnovers in two games and it wasnt like the Clippers were playing all that great a defense. Just dribbling off their own feet, throwing shit over the back board and high school type stuff.

But yeah if Lakers really lose 4 of their more important guys for the first few games they have serious issues. I suspect Kobe will try and play by the third game, which will probably be worse not better. Or they might throw out all the stops and give themselves away to get Howard. But the way Bynum looked last night and if they think he will be that guy going forward the price will be too high for howard.

Pre season is preseason but teams played last night (across the league) like it was a regular season game. LA had like 15 guys suit up last night and Lakers still only played 7. So so much for giving these guys time to show what they can do either for the Lakers or any other scouts around. It was a game like rotation for the Lakers and they lost. If anything the guys lauding Kapono, I wouldnt doubt a guy like Brown puts him on the bench and lets Blake take his place, pretty apparent he made a major change last night when kapono played like ass. The original excuse could have been foul trouble but then it was just clear he was lost. I dont think he even attempted a shot.

Should be interesting to say the least. If they start out 0-7 or something like that will be interesting to see if they make a move or mail it in. Obviously the fan boys of Kobe will scream and say that will never happen. yeah but Kobe is old and beat down and he could have a built in excuse witht his wrist thing to get surgery, especially after he let the finger thing go that got complicated, and just look for someone inthe draft, and then get Howard cheap when he is unrestricted. Like I say might be interesting. One bad season isnt gong to turn laker fans off.

Are you "like", a teenage girl or something? Nobody has any interest in reading your novels full of drivel.

[upscope]

Why are people feeding this troll?? He is obviously nothing more than a Laker hater. No levelheaded knowledgeable NBA enthusiast would dare embarrass themselves w/ such an ignorant claim that a team that hosts Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum and an 8.9m trade exception combined w/ a front office willing to make necessary roster moves is a "lottery team"......This thread had no business going any deeper than the original post plus one other post simply saying:

[jjgold]

If they play the season as is. They probably will be sub 500.

And since one LA team is looking good then I am not sure the NBA really cares right now. Lakers have the name obviously but LA is full of fair weather fans so if Clippers do well dont be surpirsed to see everyone climb on board the train.

Season tickets are already sold out and most packages that you could find dozens if not a couple hundred opions ar also sold out. Even the more expensive ones.

Now that might be due to the team or the league locking down ticket sales the first week and maybe re-opening it next week, but I went through a bunch of sites, official NBA, Official Clippers, Stub Hub, Barrys, Yahoo and tickets were scarce.

Ihad season tix a few years ago but let them go because they kept raising the prices with no real effort to improve. And even though they look to have a pretty decent future I wont buy them again because prices now (last year anyway) were way out of control, about 2.5 times as much as I was paying from 2001thru the 04 season. Well theyre about 3.5 imes what they were in 01 and 2.5 times what they were in 04. So they have been consistant I guess adding about 30% per yer to thr season ticketprices. I expect that to go up even more now there is a buzz. Price will probably go up 50%

Either way Lakers with no Phil Jackson, no bynum for the first 5 games (he is a head case anyway) a disenchanted Gasol, an old Kobe Bryant, an ancient Derrik Fisher, Ron Artest with a new name and no coach to keep him in check, this team looks like dog meat to me. And I know ESPN is not great source of fact, and they usually blow things out of proportion. But the talk of whether or not Clippers are better than the lakers is laughable, and guys actually hesitating on which team is better is why that network is a joke.

Even Vick the Brick knows the Clippers are better than the Lakers right now.

Dead on

I wonder if Kobe wants out?

[wantitall4moi]

Why are people feeding this troll?? He is obviously nothing more than a Laker hater. No levelheaded knowledgeable NBA enthusiast would dare embarrass themselves w/ such an ignorant claim that a team that hosts Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum and an 8.9m trade exception combined w/ a front office willing to make necessary roster moves is a "lottery team"......This thread had no business going any deeper than the original post plus one other post simply saying:

yeah 3 guys are a team huh? And they lost 2 of those guys for awhile already. granted Kobe injury was after I made OP but my OP also said that possibility of Kobe getting injured were pretty high, since he is getting older and worn down, so regardless it is still a valid statement. Just like I said the probability of Bynum getting hurt are pretty high as well. So the chances of them being a lottery pick now are definitely higher than they were when I made the OP.

I also said AS IS, so that disregards moves they might make. But right now with the way things go they probably do what I suspect, eat the season as is and look forward to trying to do something next year when it wont cost them nearly as much. Other than Howard, which is a homerun and will cost them more than he is worth what else is there to get? That exception is useless right now.

IMO if they trade away Bynum and any gasol for howard theyll be even worse than they are now. So that isnt an option either. Artest and Bynum and some cash or a pick might get it done but I doubt anyone wants artest contract which I think still has 3 years and around 19 mil left on it. I am not 100% sure who they have used their amnesty on would either be artest or walton. And like I said there is an almost 100% certainty Ron Artest loses his mind this season without Phil there to keep him under wraps. not that losing him would be a great loss anyway.

But you named 3 guys, Kobe out at least 4 games maybe a dozen. Bynum, out 5 and probably more due to some inhury down the road. And gasol, how long will he last if he has to carry the team? Ten who do you have? Kapono? he is a stiff. Blake? Another stiff but the same ilk as kapono can get hot and hit a few threes but not a thing you can rely on. Fisher? He is 37 and playing on 40+ year old legs he wont handle the schedule they have.

They werent that great last year despite winning the division (again) they were a decent team in a shitty division. So if you look at it like any other sport they benefited from that. getting swept by an team that was actually decent pretty much showed that. And this year they are worse. And they didnt addres any of the problems that were exposed in that dismantling by Dallas. Howard wont fix those things either.

So lakers are worse, still old and slow, new coach, new system, the division is much better with clippers clearly improved and golden State also improving greatly. Still a funny year and the division schedule isnt what it would normally be but with so many games in short periods of time lack of depth, injuries, and suspension are much more costly in 66 games than 82.

I also just looked at what they are paying troy murphy, seriously I never heard of this guy, and he has been in the league 10 years. Theyre paying that stiff 12 mil this year. So just another 'great' signing by the lakers. So now you have this stiff at 12 mil, artest at 6.3 and Walton at 5.2, thats 23.5 million for guys who shouldnt even be on a Lakers roster. Add that to Kapono's 6.something and you have 30 mill wasted right there.

Fisher sucks but he is only getting 3.7, and Barnes is a steal at 1.75. Comparitively speaking. And Josh mcRoberts, probably their best bench guy (which is horrible in and of itself in the first place) is making less than a million this year.

They have 98 million on the books at least. Minus their amnesty player, whomever that is. So call it 90 million. I cant remember when the luxury tax kicks in but I imagine it is long before that. So looking at that roster and the paychecks it is a bad situation for the Lakers, and it doesnt look to get much better going forward.

People bury their heads in the sand because it is the laker name and they have always gotten the sweat heart deal, well they didnt this time around and theyre going to pay for it. Still a very slim chance howard goes there but can they afford him? One might say yes, easily, but he will want big bucks, kobe wont take a pay cut, theyll still owe walton and arest a lot of money and depending on how they did the deals of the stiffs they picked up this year they might be on the hook for them also.

Like i said lakers are a disaster in many ways, not just on the floor. but most people cant look past the stuff they have done in the past when they got guys for nothing.

[jjgold]

Why are people feeding this troll?? He is obviously nothing more than a Laker hater. No levelheaded knowledgeable NBA enthusiast would dare embarrass themselves w/ such an ignorant claim that a team that hosts Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum and an 8.9m trade exception combined w/ a front office willing to make necessary roster moves is a "lottery team"......This thread had no business going any deeper than the original post plus one other post simply saying:

Troll??

Guy has been on forums forever, sharp, great writer, opinions

He does not realize it but this site is right up his alley because so much traffic and he gets play unlike other broken down forums

[William Walters]

yeah 3 guys are a team huh? And they lost 2 of those guys for awhile already. granted Kobe injury was after I made OP but my OP also said that possibility of Kobe getting injured were pretty high, since he is getting older and worn down, so regardless it is still a valid statement. Just like I said the probability of Bynum getting hurt are pretty high as well. So the chances of them being a lottery pick now are definitely higher than they were when I made the OP.

I also said AS IS, so that disregards moves they might make. But right now with the way things go they probably do what I suspect, eat the season as is and look forward to trying to do something next year when it wont cost them nearly as much. Other than Howard, which is a homerun and will cost them more than he is worth what else is there to get? That exception is useless right now.

IMO if they trade away Bynum and any Gasol for howard theyll be even worse than they are now. So that isnt an option either. Artest and Bynum and some cash or a pick might get it done but I doubt anyone wants artest contract which I think still has 3 years and around 19 mil left on it. I am not 100% sure who they have used their amnesty on would either be artest or walton. And like I said there is an almost 100% certainty Ron Artest loses his mind this season without Phil there to keep him under wraps. not that losing him would be a great loss anyway.

But you named 3 guys, Kobe out at least 4 games maybe a dozen. Bynum, out 5 and probably more due to some inhury down the road. And gasol, how long will he last if he has to carry the team? Ten who do you have? Kapono? he is a stiff. Blake? Another stiff but the same ilk as kapono can get hot and hit a few threes but not a thing you can rely on. Fisher? He is 37 and playing on 40+ year old legs he wont handle the schedule they have.

They werent that great last year despite winning the division (again) they were a decent team in a shitty division. So if you look at it like any other sport they benefited from that. getting swept by an team that was actually decent pretty much showed that. And this year they are worse. And they didnt addres any of the problems that were exposed in that dismantling by Dallas. Howard wont fix those things either.

So lakers are worse, still old and slow, new coach, new system, the division is much better with clippers clearly improved and golden State also improving greatly. Still a funny year and the division schedule isnt what it would normally be but with so many games in short periods of time lack of depth, injuries, and suspension are much more costly in 66 games than 82.

I also just looked at what they are paying troy murphy, seriously I never heard of this guy, and he has been in the league 10 years. Theyre paying that stiff 12 mil this year. So just another 'great' signing by the lakers. So now you have this stiff at 12 mil, artest at 6.3 and Walton at 5.2, thats 23.5 million for guys who shouldnt even be on a Lakers roster. Add that to Kapono's 6.something and you have 30 mill wasted right there.

Fisher sucks but he is only getting 3.7, and Barnes is a steal at 1.75. Comparitively speaking. And Josh mcRoberts, probably their best bench guy (which is horrible in and of itself in the first place) is making less than a million this year.

They have 98 million on the books at least. Minus their amnesty player, whomever that is. So call it 90 million. I cant remember when the luxury tax kicks in but I imagine it is long before that. So looking at that roster and the paychecks it is a bad situation for The Lakers, and it doesnt look to get much better going forward.

People bury their heads in the sand because it is the laker name and they have always gotten the sweat heart deal, well they didnt this time around and theyre going to pay for it. Still a very slim chance howard goes there but can they afford him? One might say yes, easily, but he will want big bucks, kobe wont take a pay cut, theyll still owe walton and arest a lot of money and depending on how they did the deals of the stiffs they picked up this year they might be on the hook for them also.

Like i said lakers are a disaster in many ways, not just on the floor. but most people cant look past the stuff they have done in the past when they got guys for nothing.

Damn....All Stars and solid role players....it's good to be a Lakers fan!

[upscope]

Troll??

Guy has been on forums forever, sharp, great writer, opinions

He does not realize it but this site is right up his alley because so much traffic and he gets play unlike other broken down forums

Yes troll. Trolling has no correlation whatsoever w/ the length of time you've spent on a forum. He is obviously a Laker hater. Making a statement like the saying this is a lottery team is not "sharp" nor is it "great writing"
It's ignorant. Lottery teams are bottom feeding teams. To suggest the Lakers are a bottom feeding team & arguing it till the bitter end is far from "sharp" or "great writing"

[upscope]

yeah 3 guys are a team huh? And they lost 2 of those guys for awhile already. granted Kobe injury was after I made OP but my OP also said that possibility of Kobe getting injured were pretty high, since he is getting older and worn down, so regardless it is still a valid statement. Just like I said the probability of Bynum getting hurt are pretty high as well. So the chances of them being a lottery pick now are definitely higher than they were when I made the OP.

I also said AS IS, so that disregards moves they might make. But right now with the way things go they probably do what I suspect, eat the season as is and look forward to trying to do something next year when it wont cost them nearly as much. Other than Howard, which is a homerun and will cost them more than he is worth what else is there to get? That exception is useless right now.

IMO if they trade away Bynum and any gasol for howard theyll be even worse than they are now. So that isnt an option either. Artest and Bynum and some cash or a pick might get it done but I doubt anyone wants artest contract which I think still has 3 years and around 19 mil left on it. I am not 100% sure who they have used their amnesty on would either be artest or walton. And like I said there is an almost 100% certainty Ron Artest loses his mind this season without Phil there to keep him under wraps. not that losing him would be a great loss anyway.

But you named 3 guys, Kobe out at least 4 games maybe a dozen. Bynum, out 5 and probably more due to some inhury down the road. And gasol, how long will he last if he has to carry the team? Ten who do you have? Kapono? he is a stiff. Blake? Another stiff but the same ilk as kapono can get hot and hit a few threes but not a thing you can rely on. Fisher? He is 37 and playing on 40+ year old legs he wont handle the schedule they have.

They werent that great last year despite winning the division (again) they were a decent team in a shitty division. So if you look at it like any other sport they benefited from that. getting swept by an team that was actually decent pretty much showed that. And this year they are worse. And they didnt addres any of the problems that were exposed in that dismantling by Dallas. Howard wont fix those things either.

So lakers are worse, still old and slow, new coach, new system, the division is much better with clippers clearly improved and golden State also improving greatly. Still a funny year and the division schedule isnt what it would normally be but with so many games in short periods of time lack of depth, injuries, and suspension are much more costly in 66 games than 82.

I also just looked at what they are paying troy murphy, seriously I never heard of this guy, and he has been in the league 10 years. Theyre paying that stiff 12 mil this year. So just another 'great' signing by the lakers. So now you have this stiff at 12 mil, artest at 6.3 and Walton at 5.2, thats 23.5 million for guys who shouldnt even be on a Lakers roster. Add that to Kapono's 6.something and you have 30 mill wasted right there.

Fisher sucks but he is only getting 3.7, and Barnes is a steal at 1.75. Comparitively speaking. And Josh mcRoberts, probably their best bench guy (which is horrible in and of itself in the first place) is making less than a million this year.

They have 98 million on the books at least. Minus their amnesty player, whomever that is. So call it 90 million. I cant remember when the luxury tax kicks in but I imagine it is long before that. So looking at that roster and the paychecks it is a bad situation for the Lakers, and it doesnt look to get much better going forward.

People bury their heads in the sand because it is the laker name and they have always gotten the sweat heart deal, well they didnt this time around and theyre going to pay for it. Still a very slim chance howard goes there but can they afford him? One might say yes, easily, but he will want big bucks, kobe wont take a pay cut, theyll still owe walton and arest a lot of money and depending on how they did the deals of the stiffs they picked up this year they might be on the hook for them also.

Like i said lakers are a disaster in many ways, not just on the floor. but most people cant look past the stuff they have done in the past when they got guys for nothing.

Obviously the Lakers are not in good shape right now but to suggest they are a lottery team is downright ignorant. And yes 3 guys are a team when two of them are perennial all stars & the other is arguably a top 3 center in the league. If you don't think that is true I suppose the Heat aren't a team either then

Any team that has Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum & an 8.9m trade exception is FAR from a "lottery team" & if you truely believe that you are either trolling or downright moronic.

You think the Lakers can't afford Howard?? Gasol & Bynum make a combined 36m through in the 8.9m trade exception & you're now looking @ 45m. Not only can they afford Howard but they can also take on Turk's contract & still have over 10m left. And the same way people bury their head in the sand because of the Laker name the countless Laker haters immediately rush to judgement the second any little problem occurs & claim "their a lottery team."

Anybody w/ a clue understands the Lakers are a mess right now but again if you are going to argue till the bitter end that a team consisting of 2 all-stars & a top center is a "lottery team" you are either a Laker hater or moronic.

[wantitall4moi]

Damn....All Stars and solid role players....it's good to be a Lakers fan!

LOL if you changed your avatar it might hold a little more weight.

But if, as a laker fan, you really are content with Artest, Murphy, and Barnes on your team so be it.

You can live with Fisher because he has been there forever and gets a lifetime exemption.

I would say it is 50/50 on whether or not they want Bynum, especially after the shit he pulled last year.

So that leaves two legit guys. Kobe and Gasol. Kobe is on the down side hardcore and it will show going forward. Either through injuries or him pulling the taking every shot shit he did in the past.

Right now Gasol is the best player the lakers have in terms of reliability and random factors. But even so he has been averaging 37 minutes a gme for these guys and close to that for the past 10 years, so again you have to wonder when the wheels come off? he shows bad spells from time to tie and he loses it. But even so he is still the most reliable guy they have.

We will see what happens, obviously if Kobe takes weeks off like they want then the 'prediction' doesnt hold too much weight. But the REASONS do. When you have a couple old stars and a bunch of young stiffs you live on the edge. Especially if the legit players start getting hurt and cant play together. Especially in a shortened season.

if Kobe takes weeks off, and Bynum gets hurt and Gasol wears down, this team wont win 25 games. I think I said the 'best' they could hope for was 35 wins. Clippers win more than that so they have to hope 35 gets them in. As it stands rightn ow with Kobe for sure missing games I thin k that make a realistic number (assuming he only misses 4 or 5 games) at 30 wins. So is 30-36 good enough to make a play off spot? Maybe this year in the west. But if Memphis gels, Denver can play like they played after they lost Anthony then maybe not.

Dallas, Okla, Clippers, San Antonio, are all clearly better than the lakers. So that has lakers at 5 right there at best. So then you have teams like Golden St, Denver, Memphis, Portland duking it out with the Lakers. What helps the lakers in a league where everyone makes the play offs is that Minnesota, Sacramento, and Utah are horrid. Phoenix probably wont be any good but they still have nash so if some young guys can step up who knows. Houston also a question mark. I think theyll be decent and right along the same level as the (current) Lakers. And New Orleans? Who knows, they got half a team for Paul so they might be a shocker.

Depth is going to be the key this year coming up, like I said in the OP. And Lakers have none. Or at least none with talent. which basically puts them on the same page as most of the teams out west. Dallas, Clippers, and San Antonio deepest teams with talent accross the board.

No to make this about the Clippers but Bledsoe didnt even play these two games how much better are they with him?

It will just be interesting to see how many laker flags I see come this spring and summer, and how many fair weather clippers flags I see.

[wantitall4moi]

Obviously the Lakers are not in good shape right now but to suggest they are a lottery team is downright ignorant. And yes 3 guys are a team when two of them are perennial all stars & the other is arguably a top 3 center in the league. If you don't think that is true I suppose the Heat aren't a team either then

Any team that has Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum & an 8.9m trade exception is FAR from a "lottery team" & if you truely believe that you are either trolling or downright moronic.

You think the Lakers can't afford Howard?? Gasol & Bynum make a combined 36m through in the 8.9m trade exception & you're now looking @ 45m. Not only can they afford Howard but they can also take on Turk's contract & still have over 10m left. And the same way people bury their head in the sand because of the Laker name the countless Laker haters immediately rush to judgement the second any little problem occurs & claim "their a lottery team."

Anybody w/ a clue understands the Lakers are a mess right now but again if you are going to argue till the bitter end that a team consisting of 2 all-stars & a top center is a "lottery team" you are either a Laker hater or moronic.

So you would trade gasol and bynum for howard? And you think that makes the Lakers better?

That makes them a definite lottery team then. Sure t makes headlines and buzz but Lakers dont need that they have enough media attention already. Hell Paul getting traded to the clippers got more media attention for the lakers than it did the clippers. that shows how screwed up the league is.

[upscope]

btw....if you've truly never heard of Troy Murphy I don't even know why I would even waste my time w/ this. And the Lakers are paying him the veteran's minimum so in reality it was a savvy low risk high reward pick-UP.

[jjgold]

Howard is a proven loser

We all know this...can care less when he loses

so non competitive

[upscope]

So you would trade gasol and bynum for howard? And you think that makes the Lakers better?

That makes them a definite lottery team then. Sure t makes headlines and buzz but Lakers dont need that they have enough media attention already. Hell Paul getting traded to the clippers got more media attention for the lakers than it did the clippers. that shows how screwed up the league is.

I hope you're joking?? Are you really suggesting that a team w/ Kobe Bryant & Dwight Howard on it is a "definite lottery team?" That is a downright ignorant statement. Gasol makes 18m, Bynum 14m, trade exception another 9m. That's 41m coming off the books. Howard would be a max player @ between 17-19m. You do the math. They also hold 2 1st round draft picks in next years draft & during next season come trading deadline will hold two valuable expiring contracts in Walton & Artest. Factor in Kobe's bird rights & the Lakers roster mobility becomes limitless over the next 2 seasons.

Yes the Lakers are primed for a "down" season for their standards but you need to be a little more of a realist before tossing around the term 'lottery"

[upscope]

Howard is a proven loser

We all know this...can care less when he loses

so non competitive

Yet you would jump for glee if he came to "your" team.....

[wantitall4moi]

btw....if you've truly never heard of Troy Murphy I don't even know why I would even waste my time w/ this. And the Lakers are paying him the veteran's minimum so in reality it was a savvy low risk high reward pick-UP.

LOL thats why the NBA is broke, they keep these stupid paycheck formulas on the books. Any stiff who plays long enough and can get lucky enough to get a vet contract can clean up. It also shows how bad the system is. The minimum is somewhere around 1.25 mil a year per activity, and the max is only 1.4 million. So basically the MOST he could have made is 14, but the minimum is 12, or somewhere there abouts.

So basically theyre renting this guy for one year at 12 million. The fact he was the best they could do should be a sign for you guys. Baron Davis wouldnt even come to the lakers, and i think they would have gotten him cheaper.

All I know is, now that I looked at the schedule the Lakers better be clearly in the play off before the last month of the season. Unless teams rest guys they look to go 2-8 the last 10 games. The last month they could go 4-10, maybe 6-8. So talk about stumbling into the play offs.

But feel free to look at their schedule. Jan could be a complete smoke show. If they start Dec 0-5, I see Jan as 6-11 on its own so that makes them 6-16 come Feb. I give them 6-7 in Feb, 8-9 in March, and 5-9 in April. That makes them 25-41 as of right now with the current injuries and suspensions. But even with a slight margin of error youre looking at 31-35 maybe if they win all the games I give them credit for and get a few wins that are borderline. Then if you want to give them the fan boy lean youre looking at best 35-31. That obviously gets them a play off spot but it is also 10 games better than one wold logically give them. Short season makes wins actually matter. In a 'regular' season you might be able to throw away 8-10 games and get a decent spot, but with so many teams around the .500 mark in both leagues a lucky winn or loss will probably make or break some seasons.

[William Walters]

LOL if you changed your avatar it might hold a little more weight.

But if, as a laker fan, you really are content with Artest, Murphy, and Barnes on your team so be it.

You can live with Fisher because he has been there forever and gets a lifetime exemption.

I would say it is 50/50 on whether or not they want Bynum, especially after the shit he pulled last year.

So that leaves two legit guys. Kobe and Gasol. Kobe is on the down side hardcore and it will show going forward. Either through injuries or him pulling the taking every shot shit he did in the past.

Right now Gasol is the best player the lakers have in terms of reliability and random factors. But even so he has been averaging 37 minutes a gme for these guys and close to that for the past 10 years, so again you have to wonder when the wheels come off? he shows bad spells from time to tie and he loses it. But even so he is still the most reliable guy they have.

We will see what happens, obviously if Kobe takes weeks off like they want then the 'prediction' doesnt hold too much weight. But the REASONS do. When you have a couple old stars and a bunch of young stiffs you live on the edge. Especially if the legit players start getting hurt and cant play together. Especially in a shortened season.

if Kobe takes weeks off, and Bynum gets hurt and Gasol wears down, this team wont win 25 games. I think I said the 'best' they could hope for was 35 wins. Clippers win more than that so they have to hope 35 gets them in. As it stands rightn ow with Kobe for sure missing games I thin k that make a realistic number (assuming he only misses 4 or 5 games) at 30 wins. So is 30-36 good enough to make a play off spot? Maybe this year in the west. But if Memphis gels, Denver can play like they played after they lost Anthony then maybe not.

Dallas, Okla, Clippers, San Antonio, are all clearly better than the lakers. So that has lakers at 5 right there at best. So then you have teams like Golden St, Denver, Memphis, Portland duking it out with the Lakers. What helps the lakers in a league where everyone makes the play offs is that Minnesota, Sacramento, and Utah are horrid. Phoenix probably wont be any good but they still have nash so if some young guys can step up who knows. Houston also a question mark. I think theyll be decent and right along the same level as the (current) Lakers. And New Orleans? Who knows, they got half a team for Paul so they might be a shocker.

Depth is going to be the key this year coming up, like I said in the OP. And Lakers have none. Or at least none with talent. which basically puts them on the same page as most of the teams out west. Dallas, Clippers, and San Antonio deepest teams with talent accross the board.

No to make this about the Clippers but Bledsoe didnt even play these two games how much better are they with him?

It will just be interesting to see how many laker flags I see come this spring and summer, and how many fair weather clippers flags I see.

Did you really just exclude Bynum from being a "legit" player? Really? Bynum is the 2nd best true center in the NBA.

16 Championships and 32 finals appearances obviously is more than you can handle/stomach.

[wantitall4moi]

I hope you're joking?? Are you really suggesting that a team w/ Kobe Bryant & Dwight Howard on it is a "definite lottery team?" That is a downright ignorant statement. Gasol makes 18m, Bynum 14m, trade exception another 9m. That's 41m coming off the books. Howard would be a max player @ between 17-19m. You do the math. They also hold 2 1st round draft picks in next years draft & during next season come trading deadline will hold two valuable expiring contracts in Walton & Artest. Factor in Kobe's bird rights & the Lakers roster mobility becomes limitless over the next 2 seasons.

Yes the Lakers are primed for a "down" season for their standards but you need to be a little more of a realist before tossing around the term 'lottery"

Artest has 2 years after this one, not sure about walton at least one more. So they arent going anywhere any time soon.

And if they have two first round picks why didnt they put them in the deal to get Paul? That is what the league wanted, picks and younger guys. So youre wrong there. They have a second round from Chicago in 2012 and thats it,(and whatever they get in the lottery) then in 2013 they have two 2nd round picks from Denver and Memphis.

[wantitall4moi]

Did you really just exclude Bynum from being a "legit" player? Really? Bynum is the 2nd best true center in the NBA.

16 Championships and 32 finals appearances obviously is more than you can handle/stomach.

So why would you be wiling to trade the 2nd best center and anything else for the supposed best center?

The irony is amazing from lakers fans, trying to get Howard they will trade anything because he is the best. Now that theyre stuck with the walking injury Bynum he is the second best center in the world. Perception is a dangerous thing.

Look I will say the kid has potential, but he is injured too much, and he is a mental midget. He has flashes of being awesome but not nearly consistent enough. So how to you 'value' that? You convince people he will be at his best and trade him. because dep down inside you know he will never live up to the expectations, and if he does then you have to look back and see if it was 'worth' it. if Bynum is everything lakers fans think he will be (as long as they look through the rose colored glasses) and they have to trade gasol also for him is Howard worth that much? Not even close. Unless that trade makes people want to come to LA and play with howard, which is a big if. Especially when the Clippers future right now is light years better than the Lakers. So better future, better players, more young talent and the same city and same building. remember Kobe is hit or moss so him not being there might make it more attractive for some guys. But if the Lakers in 3 years are Howard, and a cast of stiff what makes them so great a destination? the name? Which gets right back to what I said.

[jjgold]

Yet you would jump for glee if he came to "your" team.....

I think Nets he could help because totally different team and they have a big time point card

[William Walters]

So why would you be wiling to trade the 2nd best center and anything else for the supposed best center?

The irony is amazing from lakers fans, trying to get Howard they will trade anything because he is the best. Now that theyre stuck with the walking injury Bynum he is the second best center in the world. Perception is a dangerous thing.

Look I will say the kid has potential, but he is injured too much, and he is a mental midget. He has flashes of being awesome but not nearly consistent enough. So how to you 'value' that? You convince people he will be at his best and trade him. because dep down inside you know he will never live up to the expectations, and if he does then you have to look back and see if it was 'worth' it. if Bynum is everything lakers fans think he will be (as long as they look through the rose colored glasses) and they have to trade gasol also for him is Howard worth that much? Not even close. Unless that trade makes people want to come to LA and play with howard, which is a big if. Especially when the Clippers future right now is light years better than the Lakers. So better future, better players, more young talent and the same city and same building. remember Kobe is hit or moss so him not being there might make it more attractive for some guys. But if the Lakers in 3 years are Howard, and a cast of stiff what makes them so great a destination? the name? Which gets right back to what I said.

Ok Sport......please list off all the "Centers" in the NBA (other than Howard) that you'd rather have than the 7' 285lb, 24 year old, who has great feet, soft hands, who can do more than dunk, blocks & alters shots, clogs the lane, and plays with a bit of a nasty streak when need be.

P.S. If you start with Horford I may spit my food up.

[wantitall4moi]

Ok Sport......please list off all the "Centers" in the NBA (other than Howard) that you'd rather have than the 7' 285lb, 24 year old, who has great feet, soft hands, who can do more than dunk, blocks & alters shots, clogs the lane, and plays with a bit of a nasty streak when need be.

P.S. If you start with Horford I may spit my food up.

Why would you trade bynum for howard? And then why would you trade Bynum and anything really worth something for howard? And if you dont trade Bynum for him why would you want both?

Which is why I always said why would the lakers want Howard other than for another 'big' name?

So why all the trade talk to the Lakers?

Now I could see a deandre Jordan, bledsoe, (pick another guy), draft pick package for Howard Because howard wants to play in LA and he would be a clear improvement at center for the Clippers. Obviously the league wouldnt allow it even if it were monetarily possible.

So it begs the question why do the lakers have to have Howard? They need some young quick guys. They tried for Paul and they didnt get him. They didnt even try for anyone else.

Howard makes no sense for the Lakers, but it seems like he is a 'must get' for them to many people.

Now if he comes next year for free and they can trade Bynum for a young guard or some draft picks then sure tha is OK, but trading away guys youre going to need going forward for a guy that (to laker myopians) that is only one rung better than the guy you already have is retarded.

We will see what happens. What I would absolutely love to see is Phil come back and coach the Clips and have the Clips get Howard for a song and see what happens then.

But I have an idea that Howard will end up in Dallas at some point. NJ is a possibility but the league is now going big on the Knicks but then again two good teams in NYC is a good thing. And theyre not really big fans of Cuban. But Orlando will move him before the contract expires it just comes down to what team offers the rght combo. that Howard is willing to go to. They can trade him to anyone but unless he signs an extension I doubt teams will gut themselves to get him. So Dallas, Lakers, and NJ are the only teams who have that type of 'guarantee'. So who knows. He has Orlando handcuffed right now. So once again exposing the NBA as a joke league where small market teams really have very few options to get better.

[upscope]

Artest has 2 years after this one, not sure about walton at least one more. So they arent going anywhere any time soon.

And if they have two first round picks why didnt they put them in the deal to get Paul? That is what the league wanted, picks and younger guys. So youre wrong there. They have a second round from Chicago in 2012 and thats it,(and whatever they get in the lottery) then in 2013 they have two 2nd round picks from Denver and Memphis.

If you're going to call somebody "wrong" you need to make sure you are @ least right yourself?? They own the rights to their own 1st rounder & the right to Dallas' 1st rounder from the Odom trade. That's TWO first rounders. They couldn't offer Charlotte the rights to Dallas' 1st rounder for Paul because they hadn't yet owned it . If you're going to talk sh#t you need to @ least know what you are talking about.
Artest's is signed through next yr. The following year is not guaranteed meaning they have a club option which is obviously not going to be picked-UP. Walton's contract expires after next yr as well which makes both Artest's & Walton's expiring contracts trade deadline commodity's for next season.
Murphy was signed for 1.4 million not 12 million . Since you've never heard of him you probably are unaware of the fact that he averaged 15 & 10 just 2 seasons ago & is a career 39% 3-point shooter?? Obviously, he's not the same player he once was but for 1.4 million that's a pretty solid gamble??

Are you really going through the Lakers schedule & "assigning" them wins & losses for each game 4 months in advance?? And you have them @ 25-41?? This conversation is absolutely pointless. It's OK to be a hater but honestly suggesting the Lakers are a 25-41 team (even in their current state) is just clueless state. I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but it's pretty clear that you are completely lost on the subject.

I guess there is only one way to handle the clueless & that is to punish them. I would be willing to wager you anything from a peanut to your entire life's assets that the Lakers are no worse than 25-41 as you are predicting. As much or as little as you like. If you truly believe this then you go ahead & name the price & will set it UP?? Just name the price, preferably as large as possible?? Otherwise stop talking out of your azz & making foolish comments simply based on your obvious hatred toward the Lakers??

JJ seriously dude, you're calling this guy "sharp"

[wantitall4moi]

Well no excuses now as Kobe is playing. But in the long run I think it hurts them but whatever. If it becomes chronic it for sure will.

As for the salaries and picks.I thought they got a second round pick for him, but either way if Dallas is a top 4 team it might as well be a second round pick. And yes lakers have their own first rounder, which according to you guys wont be that great, but according to me will be a lottery. We will have to wait and see.

according to the Lakers page he is making 11.9 million so they obviously moved a comma somewhere. But yeh at 1.3 that is way more believable. So since I had never heard of the guy I had to look him up sorry the lakers page is wrong, but I found another page that showed he is only getting 1.3 mil which definitely makes more sense.

Bynums contract actually expires before Artest and Waltons do, so that will be interesting as well. This is the last year basically of his deal. As they have a team option next year of 16.5 million. So theyre going to have to make some hard and fast decisions. Artest has a PLAYER option next year, so he will definitely take it, and that gets him to 2013/14 and his expiring contract year where he is set to make another 7.7 million no one will take that on. Luke doesnt have any options so he is paid this year and expiring next year, but do you really think they will sucker a team into taking a stiff like him even with an expiring contract for 6 million? Especially when the luxury tax really starts kicking in.

Next year lakers are on the hook for about 67 million, if they take Bynums option theyre at 94. The year after that theyre finally out from under it a little bit at only 61, but 30 of that will be on an older and more broken down Kobe Bryant, who will more than likely be looking to get some jeteresque deal with them which will probably handcuff them again.

But right now there still under the minimum needed as I think 85 million is the minimum teams can spend, theyre at 84.987, but a rookie contract easily puts them over that.

And yeah I look at games and figure out what they will realistically win. With Kobe healthy they should win 30. If he goes down and for an extended period then 25 is most definitely plausible and more than likely probable.

I will say this, lakers will be a great first half team for guys to bet on. And more than likely a great bet against team in the second half. Or games not season. So to me that is a sound strategy when betting Lakers games this season, until the books catch up.

I remember having an almost exact same conversation like this when Jordon came back and people thought the Bullets/wizards whatever could be penciled into to the championship game. They won like 35 games or something both years he played. Fading them was like printing money. So public perspective is an awesome thing, especially with old beat down over rated guys on a team.

[jsmithj88]

i dont see the lakers being a lottery team
u have kobe, a top 3 player in the game
u have gasol, a top 5 PF in the game
u have bynum, arguably the 2nd best center in the game

thats not a lottery team, if some1 gets injured long term then its a different story

[upscope]

Kobe owns "Bird Rights" so they can sign him for whatever they want but only ge "charged" salary cap wise what any other team would be willing to pay him. Even making 24m he still doesn't handcuff them flexibility wise.

[barza01]

The Lakers have a secret weapon in Luke Walton...one of the best 9th men to come off the bench!!!

[wantitall4moi]

Kobe owns "Bird Rights" so they can sign him for whatever they want but only ge "charged" salary cap wise what any other team would be willing to pay him. Even making 24m he still doesn't handcuff them flexibility wise.

They can only sign him up to the max salary so not sure what that will be then, I think it will be 35% of the cap, which will be determined in 2014-15 season by the revenues of the previous year. Best guess I would say is 60 million or less. Maybe a lot less if the league continues to flounder. So that gives him a max deal of 21 million under the Bird rule. Is it enough? I say way too much, but that is obviously looking at it realistically.

Obviously Lakers can pay him the most, but who is to say he doesnt pull the same shenanigans he did last time and shop himself around in his final year.

Guy obviously blows money like it is going out of style, all the money he has made and he is 'worth' less than 150 million, and I think that includes what is left on this current contract (82 mil) So once his wife and the lawyers get done with him he will be desperate for cash. Which can play into LA's favor. But they still have leverage as other teams wont be able to come close to that. But he might go somewhere to chase a ring. But if he tried to hold LA hostage for a max deal (5 years) and amount (21 mil est.) then I dont know how, that isnt going to handcuff them?

Who knows he is playing with a torn up wrist he might be done after this year anyway and this will all be moot.