[romaine]

I have won enourmous amounts of money over the period of 8-9 months with 5dimes.com, always kept the money there, recommended this book to family and friends and everything was awesome until I started to withdraw some funds from there to my neteller and moneybookers accounts. At first I wasn`t aware of the havoc this ridiculous company would play with me! I received the first 9000$, the 2nd 9000$ too but little did I know that when I asked to withdraw the rest of my balance I would be confronted with the apparent owner of 5dimes.com, one Tony Something who took my success pretty personally. He spoke to me like a school boy, ask me who I thought I was to believe that I could take away so much money from him. Naturally I asked him what he was talking about and he kept on babbling something about limits that I intentionally exceeded and rules that I broke, if in my country there were no rules or who I was to believe that I could break them whenever I wanted and BS like that. We must have chatted for hours, anyway the only way he would communicate with me even though I always tried to get him on the phone he refused and told me that from this day on only he could speak to me and only via chat. The whole thing got more and more out of hand, in the end he tried to make me deposit more money into the account by promising higher limits. Good thing that I didn’t fall for the trap because he would have confiscated every Cent he could get his hands on. Bottom-line was that he annulled my balance (at that point still around 45.000$) and froze my account. When I asked him how he could do such an outrageous thing he said that he is GOD!!! and that he could do whatever he wanted to in his REALM!!!. No kidding, those were his exact words, then he told me good luck with your lawyers, you are going to need it here in Costa RICA!!. On the next day when I emailed the 5dimes customer service for an explanation I heard that no-one there was to give me any information or even speak to me except this Tony Guy. When I asked about the clerks full names I found out that really everyone there is named Perez. Unless this is a true family business those jerks even are too afraid to give their real names. One more thing, on top of closing my account, freezing the money and insulting me they also very quickly changed their sportsbook's rules so that it would seem that I really exceeded limits which I truly never did according to the old rules.
At this point I lack 45000$ and 5dimes totally ended contact with me probably laughing pretty hard about their coup. Now I don’t quite know what to do and if anyone around here could give me some advice please contact me via PN or E-mail. And if anyone here really manages to help me get some of my money back from this stupid company I am very much willing to pay a certain percentage.

[justbet]

so were you breaking any rules or not?

[Tchocky]

I've heard some bad things about 5 Dimes but this is the worst. This story should serve as a reminder for everyone to take regular withdrawals...at least once a month.

[TLD]

Chances that the first time poster is wholly in the wrong: 50.0%

Chances that the first time poster is in the wrong but 5 Dimes also is in the wrong in somehow punishing him excessively or otherwise responding inappropriately to what he did: 49.9%

Chances that the first time poster did nothing wrong, that what he’s posted is “the whole story” and that 5 Dimes simply stole from him with no justification because they’re crooks: 0.1%

[Sean]

Chances that the first time poster is wholly in the wrong: 50.0%

Chances that the first time poster is in the wrong but 5 Dimes also is in the wrong in somehow punishing him excessively or otherwise responding inappropriately to what he did: 49.9%

Chances that the first time poster did nothing wrong, that what he’s posted is “the whole story” and that 5 Dimes simply stole from him with no justification because they’re crooks: 0.1%

Chances that SBR will welcome first time posters and not jump to any conclusions before all the facts are known: 100%

Poster romaine ... email the details of your case to assistance@sportsbookreview.com

[Justin7]

Romaine,

SBR has had very few dealing with 5 Dimes, because they just don't get that many complaints. The one time I dealt with Tony, he promptly resolved everything so fast, I hadn't even had a chance to get all the facts.

If you have a problem, I'll be happy to help you. Feel free to contact me directly at Justin@sportsbookreview.com, or SBR (and Bill Dozer) at assistance@sportsbookreview.com

[Dark Horse]

I hope we get to hear the full story, and how 5Dimes is resolving this. I have no problem believing that Tony said he was 'God', and the he could do whatever he wanted, including taking 45 dimes. If that is upper management, that type of arrogance is a major red flag.

Wouldn't surprise me if 5Dimes pays after being contacted by SBR, but that would not wipe the slate clean (if the story is true). After all, how many people out there don't know about SBR?!

[koko]

I recommended this book to family and friends .

babbling something about limits that I intentionally exceeded and rules that I broke,

Any chance that the "family and friends" you "refered" bet the same way you did and did so from the same IP address?

[Sam Odom]

Interesting story... waiting for SBR's reply if Romaine has given them his INFO

[jjgold]

Too many questions for me at 5 Dimes, great book for $1000 or less though

[Sam Odom]

Well JJ, I still say they are a must have Baseball book unless there is some truth to this story.

But I have to say I've never had a 65K balance w/them and tried to w'd it all.

[5Dimes]

romaine,

I’ll address the God statement first. After repeated attempts to question my authority (and manhood) in our conversations, I felt using a God reference would make it very clear that I was the final authority regarding issues with 5Dimes. Only after using a reference to a power from above did the customer finally realize that questioning my standing in the company was no longer needed. That reference has worked to clarify this fact in the past, and again worked in this case. In no way do I feel biblical power or want to offend anyone in regards to references.

”Customers may only have one AND ONLY ONE account number in their names. Also, customers may only have one AND ONLY ONE account number per household and IP address without prior permission from management. Use of multiple account numbers or names in order to receive bonus promotions or exceed limits is forbidden and may result in the forfeiture of ALL funds received as a result of these actions. Contact customer service if you have lost your account number or password.”
“Management reserves the right to refuse or limit any wager. Use of multiple accounts to circumvent online limits is prohibited.”
“Multiple wagers at the same odds, which exceed each individual wagering option limit, will be voided at managerial discretion.”

All the rules above were listed on the rules pages prior to the customer opening any of the multiple accounts used. Other rules were added later to even more deeply clarify the 5Dimes position on the matter. The customer states that one or more of the accounts used are 8-9 months old. The earliest account was in fact opened in the middle of September. In all the accounts, the limits were exceeded only on challenger tennis (minor league tennis). Most challenger tennis matches at 5Dimes have a limit of $100 on straight wagers. Selected challenger tennis matches have a limit of $250. The sportbooks throughout the world offer challenger tennis limits ranging from $5 to $100 on these matches. In the oldest of the accounts, the customer phoned in on the 4th day of wagering. He asked for higher limits on his plays and was denied. The customer was told that tennis limits were low for a reason. These limits were not to be exceeded in any way on the phone or the internet. As with all cases when a customer has a specific request, a note from the tennis department was applied on the account with details of the request. So it is not that the customer didn’t ask at all and just assumed multiple $500 parlays with identical selections would be honored. The customer was directly told that limits were not to be exceeded. Each initial $500 parlay combination placed over the internet was honored in all of the accounts used. Any repeated combination was voided regardless of outcome. In fact, wagering option limits were $250 or less on these minor league tennis matches. The system however did accept parlays with a limit posted of $500. Since $500 was the amount listed on the site, I see no reason not to honor a posted amount on the wagering platform. Multiple wagers at the same odds were voided. After voided wagers in the accounts which exceeded the limits, all accounts were combined into one balance and settled.
The family of players in question miraculously have no contact with one another other than the handicapping and wagering of minor league tennis. Family members directly contacted us stating that they had no idea who the other members were who were associated with the accounts. When family members were directly named which were from the same country who were wagering on the same sport and had the same last name, the family still denied knowing anything about multiple accounts. That story obviously changed later.
Again to reiterate, all wagers within the limits were honored. All payouts were processed and received. Each account balance sits at a balance of $0. Since there is nothing left to lose after a month of threats and begging, we now go to the forums.


Tony
5D

[Korchnoi]

Tony,

I for one greatly appreciate your willingness to talk about this openly. I recently created a 5Dimes account but have not yet made an initial deposit. Your willingness to resolve this situation openly will most likely be the determining factor on whether I decide to play with you guys.

SBR -- it'd be great if you could update us on your official position.

[jjgold]

5 Dimes was taking shots at the player hoping he would lose. The player here is not at fault.

Please remove 5 Dimes from the list above.

[RickySteve]

Tony also personally threatened me and closed my account when I took umbrage with his repeated grading errors and magically vanishing wagers. This guy is a lowlife street bookie lacking the ethics and intelligence to run a legitimate business. I urge everyone I know to stay away from this book.

[chano]

5 Dimes was taking shots at the player hoping he would lose. The player here is not at fault.

Please remove 5 Dimes from the list above.

Bingo, that's how I read this situation. Pay the man his money.

[Korchnoi]

"The whole thing got more and more out of hand, in the end he tried to make me deposit more money into the account by promising higher limits. "

This bothers me too...

[Dark Horse]

Tony also personally threatened me and closed my account when I took umbrage with his repeated grading errors and magically vanishing wagers. This guy is a lowlife street bookie lacking the ethics and intelligence to run a legitimate business. I urge everyone I know to stay away from this book.

That's exactly how I read it, but I didn't want to assume too much, based on limited information.

Not too hard to identify the used cars salesmen in this business.

[TLD]

Good to get a response from the book to clarify this matter.

I don’t have a problem with enforcing the rule against multiple accounts (at least when the evidence is as laughably obvious as claimed here—a bunch of people with the same last name in the same area all making the identical obscure minor league tennis plays and insisting they don’t know each other).

I’ve never been very comfortable, though, with books that have software (or phone clerks for that matter) who will accept bets that can later be voided for supposedly being over the limit.

It’s one thing to cancel an obvious bad line bet. If I bet SEA +10, I should know it was a typo when the rest of the world has SEA favored by 10 or so. But if I bet $500 on something, and then rebet it for $500 and the software takes it, you can’t similarly say I should “know” that second bet was accepted in error, since, for one thing, it is far from a universal practice at sportsbooks to disallow such rebetting. Some allow it, some disallow it, some allow it if the line has moved, some allow it if there is at least a certain amount of time between bets, etc. The natural thing for a bettor—or for me at least—is to ascertain which type of book this particular book is by simply trying to place the second bet and observing what happens: If it takes it, the book apparently allows rebetting in this situation; if it doesn’t, then apparently not.

And I don’t think even putting it in the rules fully solves the problem. Having something in the rules that warns “Sometimes when we accept a bet we don’t really mean it” is certainly better than not having the warning, but the practice itself is still dubious.

Since the software at some books seems to have no problem distinguishing bets that are for amounts within the limits and bets that are not, it wouldn’t seem this is somehow technologically insoluble.

(I’m no longer talking about the specific case of the first time poster in this thread, by the way. I’m talking about customers who could easily innocently place bets that the software accepts but the book retains the discretion to cancel retroactively for being over the limit, not someone who makes it so obvious he’s a scammer on other grounds, and who furthermore has the limits explained to him by phone.)

[Dark Horse]

I’ve never been very comfortable, though, with books that have software (or phone clerks for that matter) who will accept bets that can later be voided for supposedly being over the limit.

Bingo!

[Dark Horse]

Most challenger tennis matches at 5Dimes have a limit of $100 on straight wagers. Selected challenger tennis matches have a limit of $250. The sportbooks throughout the world offer challenger tennis limits ranging from $5 to $100 on these matches.

I hardly ever bet on tennis, but these limits seem ridiculous for a book with a P rating. I would love to know when these limits became 'official'. Even a book like Actionbets, when I briefly played there, accepted much higher bets on tennis matches; on the dogs. (I have to admit I have no idea what a challenger tennis match is, though.)

[TLD]

I would think the overwhelming majority of books don’t take action on minor league tennis at all, and thus have “$0” limits. So by that standard, 5 Dimes has very high limits on this.

[tribet]

I hardly ever bet on tennis, but these limits seem ridiculous for a book with a P rating. I would love to know when these limits became 'official'. Even a book like Actionbets, when I briefly played there, accepted much higher bets on tennis matches; on the dogs. (I have to admit I have no idea what a challenger tennis match is, though.)

Challengers are the tournaments 1 level below the ATP main tour tournaments.

[GamblingPrincessXOXO]

Hi, I’ve been a forum lurker for some time, but I figure I would ask my first question at SBR.

Is withholding winnings for bets made in violation of a sportbooks rules common practice? What do other sportsbooks normally do when customers try and break their rules?

romaine,

I’ll address the God statement first. After repeated attempts to question my authority (and manhood) in our conversations, I felt using a God reference would make it very clear that I was the final authority regarding issues with 5Dimes. Only after using a reference to a power from above did the customer finally realize that questioning my standing in the company was no longer needed. That reference has worked to clarify this fact in the past, and again worked in this case. In no way do I feel biblical power or want to offend anyone in regards to references.

”Customers may only have one AND ONLY ONE account number in their names. Also, customers may only have one AND ONLY ONE account number per household and IP address without prior permission from management. Use of multiple account numbers or names in order to receive bonus promotions or exceed limits is forbidden and may result in the forfeiture of ALL funds received as a result of these actions. Contact customer service if you have lost your account number or password.”
“Management reserves the right to refuse or limit any wager. Use of multiple accounts to circumvent online limits is prohibited.”
“Multiple wagers at the same odds, which exceed each individual wagering option limit, will be voided at managerial discretion.”

All the rules above were listed on the rules pages prior to the customer opening any of the multiple accounts used. Other rules were added later to even more deeply clarify the 5Dimes position on the matter. The customer states that one or more of the accounts used are 8-9 months old. The earliest account was in fact opened in the middle of September. In all the accounts, the limits were exceeded only on challenger tennis (minor league tennis). Most challenger tennis matches at 5Dimes have a limit of $100 on straight wagers. Selected challenger tennis matches have a limit of $250. The sportbooks throughout the world offer challenger tennis limits ranging from $5 to $100 on these matches. In the oldest of the accounts, the customer phoned in on the 4th day of wagering. He asked for higher limits on his plays and was denied. The customer was told that tennis limits were low for a reason. These limits were not to be exceeded in any way on the phone or the internet. As with all cases when a customer has a specific request, a note from the tennis department was applied on the account with details of the request. So it is not that the customer didn’t ask at all and just assumed multiple $500 parlays with identical selections would be honored. The customer was directly told that limits were not to be exceeded. Each initial $500 parlay combination placed over the internet was honored in all of the accounts used. Any repeated combination was voided regardless of outcome. In fact, wagering option limits were $250 or less on these minor league tennis matches. The system however did accept parlays with a limit posted of $500. Since $500 was the amount listed on the site, I see no reason not to honor a posted amount on the wagering platform. Multiple wagers at the same odds were voided. After voided wagers in the accounts which exceeded the limits, all accounts were combined into one balance and settled.
The family of players in question miraculously have no contact with one another other than the handicapping and wagering of minor league tennis. Family members directly contacted us stating that they had no idea who the other members were who were associated with the accounts. When family members were directly named which were from the same country who were wagering on the same sport and had the same last name, the family still denied knowing anything about multiple accounts. That story obviously changed later.
Again to reiterate, all wagers within the limits were honored. All payouts were processed and received. Each account balance sits at a balance of $0. Since there is nothing left to lose after a month of threats and begging, we now go to the forums.


Tony
5D

[Dark Horse]

Avoid any book where things can get this messy. An accepted bet should always be honored. Not the first time we hear of referrals that later became excuses for not honoring wagers. Really wish that shady area could be cleared up, for the benefit of all.

Let's say I refer someone who wants to try out sports betting, but really doesn't have much knowledge. So I offer some advice. The referred party plays those bets, only to learn that they are not honored. WTF? Books should never assume the authority to play prosecution and judge in such a shady area. If there is a conflict let it be settled by a neutral third party.

[MrX]

Hi, I’ve been a forum lurker for some time, but I figure I would ask my first question at SBR.

Is withholding winnings for bets made in violation of a sportbooks rules common practice? What do other sportsbooks normally do when customers try and break their rules?

Welcome to SBR.

I wouldn't say this is common, but it also is not unheard of. The better books are more likely to begrudgingly pay the balance and close the account(s).

The best books have the software and the staff to stay on top of these situations and stop illicit activity as it happens, without having to go back in history voiding this and that which, as seen here, can get pretty messy.

I should also mention, with any book in the B range and up, you're extremely unlikely to run into any problem like this unless you really are up to something pretty shady.

[Dark Horse]

Anyway, if the book can show that all wagers that exceeded the limit were voided, regardless of loss or win, and not in retrospect, but before the game (!), that should be acceptable.

But if the wagers were voided afterwards, it is a clear case of a book putting itself in a position to win regardless of the outcome.

(Sorry for getting so involved. LOL. I just try to see quickly what the angles are to help me in my own selection of books.)

[wrongturn]

It seems to me that Tony indicated the player exceeded the limit by using multiple accounts, not by betting multiple times in one account, which I don't know if it is even possible in the current software. If software allows, then I would say they should honor the bets, because it is so easy to configure software to enforce limit rule.

[Arilou]

If each individual parlay has a higher limit than a match which you are allowed to parlay, and the limit is 'not to be exceeded,' then why are these games not automatically circled to prevent their use in parlays? It would seem very difficult to see a situation where such parlays would be offering something to the customer that didn't violate the book's rules. It certainly is problematic. That doesn't excuse the multiple accounts, of course, but if such parlays are not permitted the moment the first one is noted and cancelled the player at the very least needs to be notified right away that they are to refrain from such wagers. To not do so and then cry foul later makes me wary.

[jjgold]

5 Dimes is a book that can vanish in one day, it is a great book for $1000 or less.

5 Dimes is taking a beating here on all forums, are they short on cash?

[TLD]

It seems to me that Tony indicated the player exceeded the limit by using multiple accounts, not by betting multiple times in one account, which I don't know if it is even possible in the current software.

You may be right, but it's not worded entirely clearly and I actually took it to be saying the opposite:

Each initial $500 parlay combination placed over the internet was honored in all of the accounts used. Any repeated combination was voided regardless of outcome.

I read this to mean that, say, Account A made 10 $500 bets, Account B made 10 $500 bets, and Account C made 10 $500 bets, and 5 Dimes honored the first $500 in each account--i.e., $1,500 total--and voided the rest.

So in that case they'd be allowing the initial bets even from multiple accounts, and disallowing rebets from any of the accounts.

That's just how I read it though. I'm not at all sure that's what it means.

In any case, the larger issues are very much worth discussing.

[romaine]

Hi Tony

You certainly took your time to post an answer here.

You did and now I have to counter:

From an observer's point of view your statement sounds right and totally legit, I must give you credit for that. Thing is that you are twisting and stretching the truth until it makes you look better than you actually are. It is a good thing that I printed out almost all chat conversations I had with you, missing only the very first one, which also is the most entertaining one. I will certainly get ahold of it and post it for the world to read. At no point did I question your authority, it just wasn't clear until you felt the need to clarify it with your "God" story. That I also asked your clerks about who is responsible at 5dimes.com is a normal thing and I suppose everybody would have done the same. Never did I question your manhood but it is just great that you are trying to make me look like the fool here. Too bad that your memory doesn't measure up with your sharp tongue which is one of a kind. I, myself have one betting account at 5dimes and one only, it is not a secret that my wife (ex-wife-to-be) has one too but she doesn't live with me (different address 200km away, far from the same household) and I personally don't believe that she played the same bets that I did. We met as gamblers and we seperated as gamblers.


@pokerjoe

It is not over and the amount that I am talking about was generated with one account which is mine and on my name. In the mean time, because I didn't let go, he froze and annuled her account too and from what Tony told me from some other guy that I don't know about. It is none of my business and you can do with their accounts and money whatever you please. The 45K are mine and the limits that you posted here were fixed after our dispute. I recommend all you gamblers out there who face the same problems the website www.archives.org where I found old pages of 5dimes.com therefore also the old and at this time relevant sportsbook rules for my bets

You changed them right after our first chat conversation and when I asked about the old rules and all information I need to file complaints or law suits you told all your employees to not speak to me at all and if I ask their names to say that they were called Perez. ALL OF THEM - ROMMEL PEREZ, BIANCA PEREZ, FRED PEREZ; MJ PEREZ and there are more Perez' but I would have to check. Those are the ones that I remember by heart. When I asked how it were possible that everybody at 5dimes is named Perez they told me that it is an incredibly common name in Costa Rica.
I asked, and this always very nicely indeed if I could be provided with all necessary info about the company because it is obviously impossible to come to an agreement without counselation. You told me that I get nothing, case closed and I totally bore you and waste your time. A little later you told me very proud of yourself that you also closed other accounts and linked them to me and made a settlement of some kind. I never cared and still don't but at least you told me that now I don't owe YOU anymore money and therefore 5dimes would not try and take money back from ME.

Let’s talk about 5dimes’ limits. How am I supposed to know about limits of a certain event if even the book’s software is not? I place a bet, it is accepted instantly. I place it again, accepted again and a different ticket or wager number. I played tennis (not only minor league, also ATP, sometimes with soccer ) bets at 5d at least since the beginning of September and this regularly, pretty much every week. Always the winning were credited to my balance until I reached a balance that I just had to reduce. Only then after my first withdrawals (2 months I wagered every week) 5D found out that I go over the limit???? Would the limit have been an issue at all if I would have lost?? Would they have paid me back all my money in thios case because I incidentally exceeded the limits? I don’t really know, guess this is left to our imagination.....

What would you say if I told you that I even would have lost a parlay bet which would have set my balance to Zero if only 5D hadn’t cancelled this one particular parlay bet and saved me and my account by this action (after cancelling my bet for a total of 4.000$) they still didn’t change the rules or contact me in any way telling me about the limits. For the record: They voided just one player in the parlay, He lost!!

Anyway it is good that my posting in the forums made some waves because I already got a lot of interesting info and material about 5d and Tony in particular but this would maybe go way too far here at this early stage in time. Just let me quote 5ds answer to an E-mailed question:

“The $500 or $1000 limit is set for each ticket and you can place that limit on the same wager up to $5000. If you need that limit to be higher you can always call in your wager at 1-800-442-0151.

Regards, Josh (Perez, I assume)
5dimes Customer Service."

@Tony

Why are you not willing to provide me with all chat conversations we had? (Especially the first one, which is the only one that I forgot to print out).

@Tony

Why were you not willing to speak to me over the phone like I offered you at least 10 times, always eager to find a mutual agreement of any kind?

Having said this I might start now to scan in our chat conversations and let the world know about 5dimes Customer Service and Tony, God himself , featuring the multiple Perez’ siblings. Once again I kindly ask you to publish our very first complete chat, I’ll bring the rest of them. Would be a nice gesture now that a Christmas is coming

[Dark Horse]

In terms of who to trust, this is now a no-brainer to me. I hope Romaine gets the money 5D owes him.

Pretty disturbing that, even after extensive research, we can be confronted with characters like Tony.

[punchmaster]

!

[Dark Horse]

He just explained he didn't create multiple accounts, and I believe him. Tony is using that, because he knows how shady things get from thereon.

I'm just going by the vibe. (The sly vibe is coming entirely from Tony, and not at all from Romaine.)