[arichmond64]

I had £200 on O 2.5 goals at 2.32 on ALLYOUBET tonight in the game between Mallorca and Granada. The match was abandoned after about 65 minutes when the linesmen was in injured by an object thrown from the crowd.

My bet was in open bets for a while after the match so I went onto the CS and told them what happened, eventually they understood, I was told that they spoke to their traders and they said they are not paying out and my stake was returned.

Now in their T & C it states:

All bets on a match abandoned before the completion of 90 minutes play will be void unless the match is rearranged and played on the same date (local time) or stated otherwise in the rules, , except for bets on any markets that have been unconditionally determined.

The CS told me to write an email explaining everything, send it to them, and they will send it to the traders, which I have done, I also told them I would be contacting SBR.

Am I correct in thinking that I 100% should of been paid.

[cobra_king]

You have no case.

Unconditionally determined means a part of the game that has already been played. Like a first half bet with the first half being completed in full. Any totals bet on any sport for the entire game does not fall into the 'unconditionally determined' category.

[arichmond64]

But surely it is determined, just like a first goal scorer would be, since 3 goals have been scored.

This is sick if I lose

[cobra_king]

This same argument comes up in baseball games all the time when the game goes over the total before a game is called due to rain. But the fact of the matter is, when a total bet is made for a full game, the entire game (or whatever amount is determined to be a full game) MUST be played for it to be considered a valid bet. It sucks when it happens but it's the rules of the industry.

[Maniac]

No case sadly - How would you feel if you were on the Under 2.5 in this match and it was settled as a loser despite the match being abandoned...you would be annoyed then as well.

This is a pretty standard rule really, so you would be hard pushed to find many books out there who would settle this as a winner for you...

[moses millsap]

Some Euro books settle bets even if matches aren't completed if result is already determined. Think Expekt does it for tennis if you got +1.5 sets and your player already won a set, whereas Pinnacle voids it either way. Seems like their wording below allows for them to grade either way, perhaps to their benefit:

All bets on a match abandoned before the completion of 90 minutes play will be void unless the match is rearranged and played on the same date (local time) or stated otherwise in the rules, , except for bets on any markets that have been unconditionally determined.

[Hareeba!]

Same thing happens with most books when tennis matches aren't completed. Despite having backed the retiring player to win 2 sets to 1 or 2 sets to 0 and he loses the first set before retiring the bet will be voided.

[arichmond64]

No case sadly - How would you feel if you were on the Under 2.5 in this match and it was settled as a loser despite the match being abandoned...you would be annoyed then as well.

This is a pretty standard rule really, so you would be hard pushed to find many books out there who would settle this as a winner for you...

But there was over 2.5 goals scored, so I would of already lost the under 2.5 bet, which why the should pay.

Guess I just have to hope they pay, but its a real kick in the balls!

[Justin7]

It sucks, but this is how this type of bet is graded.

[arichmond64]

I dont mean to keep questioning your knowledge guys, but I have found a fair few bookies who would pay out on this specific market. Is this unusual?

[Uga]

I have found a fair few bookies who would pay out on this specific market.

Which ones? Please specify.

[arichmond64]

Bet 365
Goals Over/Under
Predict whether there will be under or over 2.5 goals in a match. In the event of a match being abandoned before 90 minutes have been played then all bets will be void unless settlement of bets is already determined.

Betinternet
If any match is abandoned before 90 mins have been played, the selection will be deemed void unless the outcome has already been decided, i.e. First Goalscorer or Time of First Goal.

Luckliners
In the event of a game being abandoned before 90 minutes have been played all bets are void unless settlement of bets is already determined. Please refer to the following examples regarding settlement of bets: Goal line.

Titanbet
2. All markets on football matches will be deemed for 90 minutes play (including any added injury time) unless otherwise stated on this website. If a match is abandoned before the scheduled 90 minutes has elapsed only bets that can be settled at the time the match was abandoned will stand. Any other bets will be declared void

Winfootball
All bets on a match abandoned before the completion of 90 minutes play will be void unless the match is rearranged and played on the same date (local time) or stated otherwise in the rules, except for bets on any markets that have been unconditionally determined. (Although this is the same as allyoubet)

Betway
Unless otherwise stated, all markets on football matches will be for 90 Minutes scheduled play, including any added injury or stoppage time. In the occurrence of a match being abandoned prior to the final whistle, only bets that can be settled at the time of abandonment will stand. All other bets will be cancelled.

Although there is one specific to O U market, in which all matches will be considered O 2.5 if its abandoned.

BHTAbet
Winning bets must predict whether the total number of goals scored in a particular match will be less or more 2.5. If a match is abandoned for any reason before full time (90 minutes) the selection is considered void unless more than 2.5 goals have been scored. In that case more 2.5 goals selection wins and less than 2.5 goals loses.

Expekt
Total Goals
If a match is abandoned before the stipulated time for a valid match, stakes are refunded on non-settled bets. Bets that are settled by the time the match is abandoned are dealt with as being active. i.e. A bet on Over 2.5 goals when a game is 2-1 and abandoned is settled as a win. A bet on Under 2.5 in the same game is settled as a loss. .

BWIN
B1.11.3 Total betting (all bets containing the betting options “Over” and “Under”):

If the event is abandoned before its completion then all bets will be void, unless the highest possible total to bet on has already been attained in which case all bets stand.

Ladbrokes
Acceptance of bets
Abandoned matches
Postponed/Re-arranged matches
Divisional betting
Prices subject to fluctuation
Correct score betting
Double result forecast (Half-time/Full-time betting)
Results
Goalscorer bets
Each-Way first goalscorer
Goal Crazy
Related contingencies in one match
Time of acceptance of football bets
Scorecasts (First player to score and correct score)
Total goals
Bookings index
Number of corners
Last team to score
Time of first goal
Double chance
Penalty Shoot Outs
To receive first card
Goal Line
Season match betting
Handicap betting
Half-time betting
Asian Line betting
Goalscorer match bets
Highest scoring team
Highest scoring game
What will happen to a player first?
Player vs Player match bets
Season Handicap Betting
Trialists
How many times will the woodwork be hit?
Goal Time Quatro
Extra time betting
Timing of corners and penalty kicks
Number of offsides
Total shots in game
Total throw-ins in game
Total yellow cards in game
To win both halves
League top goalscorer
Mythical Matches
How will the first goal be scored?
First player to be substituted
To score first and last
Total league goals (over/under)
1st Half Result/2nd Half Result
Time of next match goal
Time of next home/away goal
Team to receive most cards
Penalty markets
Next team to score
Top class trebles/Top man trebles
Man Of The Match - Live Sky matches
Tournament Goalscorer Match Betting
Total Goal Minutes
Football Pools



Acceptance of bets

All football bets will be settled on 90 minutes play (also referred to as Full-time and normal time). This denotes the period of play which includes time added by the Referee for injuries and other stoppages. This does not include scheduled extra time, or Penalty shoot-outs, if played.

In matches where penalty shoot outs or extra time are due to take place, all bets are settled on 90 minutes unless an Outright price is specifically requested and confirmed at the time the bet is placed.

For matches played at neutral venues, the team listed on the left are still classed as the 'home' team for settlement purposes.

A club team playing a European competition is classed as playing at home if the fixture is moved from the team's usual ground to another ground within their national boundaries, e.g. when Arsenal played their Champions League home ties at Wembley.

If a match is no longer played at the venue advertised, bets will stand as long as the venue remains in the same country and is not switched to the opponent's ground. Should this occur, all bets will be void.

Where Ladbrokes have not quoted prices on a match, any single bet on that match will be void and treated as a non-runner in multiple bets.


Abandoned Matches

Should a match be abandoned prior to the completion of 90 minutes play, all markets will be void, unless a definitive result for that market has already been determined prior to abandonment, e.g. first goalscorer, Time of First Goal or Half Time result, or unless the governing body has declared an official result.

Status bet
Match abandonment: If a match is abandoned before the stipulated time for a valid match, stakes are refunded on non-settled bets. Bets that are settled by the time the match is abandoned are dealt with as being active. i.e. A bet on Over 2.5 goals when a game is 2-1 and abandoned is settled as a win. A bet on Under 2.5 in the same game is settled as a loss.

Stan James
Unless otherwise stated, all markets on football matches will be for 90 Minutes scheduled play, including any added injury or stoppage time. In the event of a match being abandoned before the final whistle, only bets that can be settled at the time of abandonment will stand. All other bets will be deemed void.

Betonalfa
Goal Range (Under/Over) - if three ( 3) goals or more have been scored at the time of abandonment that is over 2.5 goals selection wins and under 2.5 goals selection loses.

I might be wrong with some of these, but some of them definitely pay out in this situation.

[arichmond64]

Ah, messed ladbrokes up there, but it was one any way.

[cobra_king]

I only read the first four of the websites but all four of those sites would grade your bet as cancelled. You are either misunderstanding what 'settlement of bet already determined' means or you are refusing to believe it.

[arichmond64]

I think its both lol.

What exactly does settlement of bet already determined mean?

[shari91]

I only read the first four of the websites but all four of those sites would grade your bet as cancelled. You are either misunderstanding what 'settlement of bet already determined' means or you are refusing to believe it.

No they wouldn't have been cancelled. "If any match is abandoned before 90 mins have been played, the selection will be deemed void unless the outcome has already been decided, i.e. First Goalscorer or Time of First Goal."

The outcome in this case for the over under 2.5 goals was decided at the time the match was suspended.

You are correct arichmond because I've gone through this with bet365 several times on tennis. That wording means that if the outcome of a bet is determined and the match has been suspended, bets are graded.

[cobra_king]

Refer to my first post in this thread. It would be things like wagering on the first half of a game and the first half being played to it's ENTIRETY. Or who will score the first goal and the first goal is already scored. A totals bet on an entire game is not settled unless the entire game is played regardless of whether that bet is a guaranteed winner or not at that point.

[shari91]

As for ALLYOUBET'S policy: All bets on a match abandoned before the completion of 90 minutes play will be void unless the match is rearranged and played on the same date (local time) or stated otherwise in the rules, , except for bets on any markets that have been unconditionally determined.

Unless you believe that at some point later in that match, a goal would have been called back and ruled invalid, then the over/under 2.5 goals was unconditionally determined at the time it was suspended.

[cobra_king]

Shari,

Those examples you gave would be graded as W/L.

They are different than what the OP is asking for.

[Ruifgalmeida]

I dont mean to keep questioning your knowledge guys, but I have found a fair few bookies who would pay out on this specific market. Is this unusual?

yes it unusual

[mattmc419]

I had the Michigan spread in their first game of the year.

They were up by a ton, and there's no way they wouldn't have covered, but the game was suspended due to lightning.

The score at the time was even agreed to as the final score by both teams.

The result? No action

It stinks, but unfortunately you don't have a case just like I didn't

[shari91]

Refer to my first post in this thread. It would be things like wagering on the first half of a game and the first half being played to it's ENTIRETY. Or who will score the first goal and the first goal is already scored. A totals bet on an entire game is not settled unless the entire game is played regardless of whether that bet is a guaranteed winner or not at that point.

When a book doesn't make a distinction as to which lines the unconditionally determined refers to, how do you determine which ones it does? I bet over/unders in tennis. When a player retires, even if that number hasn't been hit yet but it would've had to have been hit if the match was completed in it's entirety, my bet is graded. The over/under 2.5 goals has been hit if that match continued. Goals aren't later recalled in soccer.

arichmond, I'd fight this if I were you but that's just my opinion based on what I experience in tennis.

[shari91]

Shari,

Those examples you gave would be graded as W/L.

They are different than what the OP is asking for.

I was just copying what it said in the policy. The policy for the book he used doesn't even specify any examples. If a book specifically says that plays are cancelled regardless, then that's fine ie Pinny. If a book says that plays are cancelled unless the outcome has already been determined ie bet365, then I'd be fighting the ruling in this case. Offshore books don't tend to use this policy, but many Euro books do as he listed above.

[arichmond64]

I was just copying what it said in the policy. The policy for the book he used doesn't even specify any examples. If a book specifically says that plays are cancelled regardless, then that's fine ie Pinny. If a book says that plays are cancelled unless the outcome has already been determined ie bet365, then I'd be fighting the ruling in this case. Offshore books don't tend to use this policy, but many Euro books do as he listed above.

I intend to. I have just checked betfair, they paid out on O 2.5, and their T & C wording, is identical to allyoubet.

So is it not possible to go through SBR with this, since the majority don't believe I have a chance?

[shari91]

I intend to. I have just checked betfair, they paid out on O 2.5, and their T & C wording, is identical to allyoubet.

So is it not possible to go through SBR with this, since the majority don't believe I have a chance?

Yes, you can definitely file a dispute through SBR. The majority of people commenting in this thread are familiar with US-facing books so they're dealing with books that tend to use the opposite policy, which is understandable. In their cases, the bet would definitely be cancelled. But for those of us who play with Euro books, we're more familiar with the policies you've listed above. Unless a book specifically lists which bet types are considered to be "all in" if they're determined at the time of cancellation, then it should be reasonably assumed that all bets are because the score would never go below 2-1 if the match were completed as normal. Therefore the over/under has been decided.

Here's how you file a dispute Complaint Form

[mattmc419]

Actually, I changed my mind.

I guess it was theoretically possible that Michigan could have given up a ton of points in the 4th and not covered. Wasn't going to happen, but fine.

Shari is right, there's no way the score was going to be under 2.5. I think you have an argument.

[moses millsap]

Like I said earlier, the way it is worded makes me think you have a valid argument and a winning bet.

[lukahh]

in my opinion, bet is a winner.
Outcome of O/U 2.5 has been unconditionally determined when 3rd goal was scored.

i remember bwin, for example, settles bets during in-game time; you'd get email with grading info within minutes of goal scored.

it would be curious to know what they did with U 2.5 bets. cancel or grade loser?

[shari91]

in my opinion, bet is a winner.
Outcome of O/U 2.5 has been unconditionally determined when 3rd goal was scored.

i remember bwin, for example, settles bets during in-game time; you'd get email with grading info within minutes of goal scored.

it would be curious to know what they did with U 2.5 bets. cancel or grade loser?

I don't know anything about ALLYOUBET and SBR hasn't rated them so unfortunately I can't even speculate as to how they would've handled the unders. But if it's even a somewhat respectable book at all, they would've cancelled the unders as well. But according to their rules, they shouldn't have. Under bettors knew they lost their bet the second that 3rd goal was scored if the match had been played in it's entirety. Under bettors were losers at books with this rule and the overs were winners. Hopefully they sort it out for arichmond quickly

[arichmond64]

Just went onto ALLYOUBET, and my bet was refunded last night, it is now back in open bets today.

I definately believe it should stand, if it wasn't "unconditionally determined" what is?

[wrongturn]

American players expect the bet to be voided, because that is the rule for baseball games. But European bookmakers may decide the rule is not good for soccer games, so they add this "unconditionally determined" exception, which sounds like your bet should stand. But it is really up to interpretation what it is about. They should add a few common examples into the rule. Unfortunately the disputes resulted from this rule just never end.

[moses millsap]

Just went onto ALLYOUBET, and my bet was refunded last night, it is now back in open bets today.

I definately believe it should stand, if it wasn't "unconditionally determined" what is?

So, they haven't graded it a winner yet?

[shari91]

So, they haven't graded it a winner yet?

I guess not. But at least they changed it from cancelled to open so that's a step in the right direction. Keep us posted arichmond!

[arichmond64]

No not graded a winner just yet, but it is open again like I said.

I went on CS chat today for something else and they told me that they were still waiting for the traders to go over my email and reply about this situation.

I am a little sceptical now though, smarkets refunded all markets, but betfair have the same worded T & C as allyoubet, they are holding the money for 3 days until the match cannot be replayed in the 72 hour time frame, but I dont know what they are paying out on, and what they aren't.

[arichmond64]

I guess not. But at least they changed it from cancelled to open so that's a step in the right direction. Keep us posted arichmond!

Just been confirmed that betfair paid out on this, and other determined markets, as you would expect, and this is their T & C:

If a match starts but is later abandoned or postponed and is not completed (i.e. 90 minutes of play according to the match officials, plus any stoppage time) within three days of the scheduled start date, all bets will be void except for those on markets which have been unconditionally determined.

Identical to Allyoubet's.