[BiffTFinancial]

not when it comes to child molestation/rape.... especially repeat offenses to these kids over a 20 year time frame who got caught several times... its sickening, The entire university has failed and they should forfeit the rest of their season and then fire everyone top to bottom...

i stop short of saying that they should forfeit the rest of the season. there are surely a lot of good kids on that team who deserve to finish their season (notwithstanding the obvious distractions associated with this horrific revelations) and never had anything to do with this. i do foresee a napalming of the athletic department and the football coaching staff, which will burn those kids and the program going forward. i respect why you would say that, simply disagree.

[rsnnh12]

categorically wrong. here's a creative writing assignment for you: you have carte blanche to write his side of the story. you make up a "side of the story" that excuses his inaction when told of a 60 year-old man molesting a 10 year-old boy in the locker room shower at PSU, then continuing to allow the guy access to the facility for nine years (bringing kids with him on occasion) and knowing that the guy worked actively in a charity with disadvantaged kids for six more years. use aliens, Nazis, the mafia, drug cartels, the KGB, CIA, the Trilateral Commission, Nucky Thompson and the entire cast of Game of Thrones - whatever you want. there is no side of the story that could possibly be acceptable.

Was he actually told that a boy was being molested? Or was he told that Sandusky was doing something inappropriate in the showers? I've heard that JoePa wasn't told the whole story when it happened, but I haven't heard if that was really true or not... haven't had a chance to read through the reports yet.

[HilltopTony]

Did JoePa do enough???

The Pennsylvania State University does not tolerate sexual assault ... and will prosecute the perpetrators of such acts of violence, in cooperation with law enforcement officials, to the fullest extent possible."

It also says:
"As soon as you have the information, a report should be made to the police, at any hour, and to the office of the Vice President for Student Affairs."

According to an investigating state grand jury, neither Paterno nor anyone else at the school notified police of a reported 2002 incident involving former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky and a young boy in the showers at the Lasch Football Building.

The grand jury said the witness -- former graduate assistant and current wide receivers coach Mike McQueary -- went to Paterno with information about what he had seen. Paterno told the grand jury that he didn't know the full extent of the graphic details about which McQueary later testified.

State police Commissioner Frank Noonan said Paterno fulfilled a legal requirement to report the incident when he went up the chain and notified his superiors at Penn State, but Noonan suggested there was a higher calling to do more: "I think you have the moral responsibility -- anyone, not whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building -- I think you have a moral responsibility to call us."

[Louisvillekid1]

i stop short of saying that they should forfeit the rest of the season. there are surely a lot of good kids on that team who deserve to finish their season (notwithstanding the obvious distractions associated with this horrific revelations) and never had anything to do with this. i do foresee a napalming of the athletic department and the football coaching staff, which will burn those kids and the program going forward. i respect why you would say that, simply disagree.

I hear ya, but there entire reason of this cover up is to save the great name of 'Penn st' and for what? $$$$$

Where does all the $$$$ come from? Football, so its not about the kids on team currently. Its about sending a message saying we were wrong and should not be able to continue to profit of the same product we've risked kids lives over to cover up...

Were are on the same page my friend...

[Louisvillekid1]

All you guys have to do is google the 25 page grand jury report and after about page 6 you'll be sick to your stomach. Read it and check back in...

[BiffTFinancial]

Easy. Paterno tells the AD. The AD gives Paterno a police report clearing Sandusky of any wrongdoing. Could even be police officers that spoke to Paterno and told him the story was fabricated or a misunderstanding. or Paterno doesn't even remember being told because of Alzheimers.

well, it can't be the former, as such a report would be a matter of public record and surely reviewed during the course of the three-year grand jury investigation and discussed in their report. i take it that the latter was a joke.

the only side of Paterno's story in which i am interested would be the answers to the following two questions: (1) i understand that Sandusky visited your house many times over the years - how many times since 2002?; and (2) since 2002, ever invite him over while your grandkids were around? i have a feeling that i know what the answers will be....

[big0mar]

well, it can't be the former, as such a report would be a matter of public record and surely reviewed during the course of the three-year grand jury investigation and discussed in their report. i take it that the latter was a joke.

Report would be a matter of public record if it only were an actual report. Could have been a phony report, or could have been simply a police officer that was complicit lying to Paterno.

I'm not defending Paterno here, I'm just saying we don't know what Paterno was told after he reported this.

[BiffTFinancial]

Was he actually told that a boy was being molested? Or was he told that Sandusky was doing something inappropriate in the showers? I've heard that JoePa wasn't told the whole story when it happened, but I haven't heard if that was really true or not... haven't had a chance to read through the reports yet.

as i understand it, the question is whether he knew of actual sodomy or "just" inappropriate touching. it sounds as if he knew of molestation, but perhaps not the actual graphic extent. he was certainly on notice that the guy wasn't safe to be around kids, yet did nothing to prevent future occurrences.

[BiffTFinancial]

I hear ya, but there entire reason of this cover up is to save the great name of 'Penn st' and for what? $$$$$ Where does all the $$$$ come from? Football, so its not about the kids on team currently. Its about sending a message saying we were wrong and should not be able to continue to profit of the same product we've risked kids lives over to cover up... Were are on the same page my friend...

i'll put it this way - if they did cancel the rest of the season, i would understand and even respect the decision. however, i would also feel terrible for, say, the seniors on the team. that said, it's going to be hard to watch the game this weekend with the same sort of joy i would have previously (not PSU fan, but huge Big Ten fan, and had this game circled for a couple of week - although Northwestern upset of UNL last week kind of diminished it a bit).

[BiffTFinancial]

Report would be a matter of public record if it only were an actual report. Could have been a phony report, or could have been simply a police officer that was complicit lying to Paterno. I'm not defending Paterno here, I'm just saying we don't know what Paterno was told after he reported this.

fair enough. in your hypothetical, the most powerful man in State College is serially deceived by those with less power and seems to be, at the very least, willfully blind in a way that caused great harm to others. i will admit that it's not impossible, though i highly doubt it. and, it makes some of the others involved look far, far worse.

[big0mar]

fair enough. in your hypothetical, the most powerful man in State College is serially deceived by those with less power and seems to be, at the very least, willfully blind in a way that caused great harm to others. i will admit that it's not impossible, though i highly doubt it. and, it makes some of the others involved look far, far worse.

How can the others not look as bad as we can possibly conceive.

And for all the talk about Paterno being the most powerful man in town, he's over 80 years old. He was over 70 when this happened. Have you heard him talk? With all due respect, he could very easily be deceived.

[Madison]

Pretty messed up??? Are you fukking kidding me? He's known about this and many others for years and has said nothing! Anyone who knew of these heinous acts, and didn't act upon them, is any absolute disgrace to humanity! All, and I mean every last bit, of respect is gone for the old man, get the fukk out, and now! What a disgrace!!! How bout going to the police you fukking idiot! How come no one, including fukking JOE fukking PA, didn't go to the police. Everyone of these people should have taken that step and didn't. That's where they are wrong, and that to me, is fukking cowardly, disgraceful, and sickening!!! Paterno should never coach another game!

BroDog!!!

[BiffTFinancial]

How can the others not look as bad as we can possibly conceive. And for all the talk about Paterno being the most powerful man in town, he's over 80 years old. He was over 70 when this happened. Have you heard him talk? With all due respect, he could very easily be deceived.

no argument here. as i said before, there is plenty of blame to go around, no need to act as if it is in finite supply.

as to your second point, he was clearly told at the very least that his good friend and former assistant (and active member of a childrens charity) was using the football facility to molest children. from there, he fulfilled his legal duty, and then either stuck his head in the sand or was deceived because he's a doddering old man who no longer has all of his faculties. in either event, he's not the "great man" that we all believed, nor should he have been in charge of this esteemed program for the past decade. i have a pretty good imagination, and i've yet to imagine a scenario that excuses his conduct. perhaps such a scenario exists, but it doesn't much matter - his legacy is ruined, the only question is how just is that punishment.

[Jonah]

If you cancel the football season, then you should cancel all Penn State sports. This is an athletic department and University issue just as much, if not more, than specifically football.

Secondly, be prepared for victims' number to skyrocket. This guy had access to a ton of kids...and well - others are going to want some free coin.

[BiffTFinancial]

If you cancel the football season, then should cancel all Penn State sports. This is an athletic department and University issue just as much, if not more, than specifically football. Secondly, be prepared for victims number to skyrocket. This guy had access to a ton of kids...and well others are going to want some free coin.

yeah, you can definitely prepare yourself to see PSU's/Commonwealth of PA's sovereign immunity tested....

[jarvol]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...sex-abuse-case

A chronological look at the case against former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, based on a grand jury report in Pennsylvania state court. Some key dates in Penn State football history are included. Sandusky has been charged with 40 criminal counts, accusing him of serial sex abuse of minors.
1969: Jerry Sandusky starts his coaching career at Penn State University as a defensive line coach.
1977: Jerry Sandusky founds The Second Mile. It begins as a group foster home dedicated to helping troubled boys and grows into a charity dedicated to helping children with absent or dysfunctional families.
January 1983: Associated Press voters select Penn State as college football's national champion for the 1982 season.
January 1987: Associated Press voters select Penn State as college football's national champion for the 1986 season.
1994: Boy known as Victim 7 in the report meets Sandusky through The Second Mile program at about the age of 10.
1994-95: Boy known as Victim 6 meets Sandusky at a Second Mile picnic at Spring Creek Park when he is 7 or 8 years old.
1995-96: Boy known as Victim 5, meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is 7 or 8, in second or third grade.
1996-97: Boy known as Victim 4, at the age of 12 or 13, meets Sandusky while he is in his second year participating in The Second Mile program.
1996-98: Victim 5 is taken to the locker rooms and showers at Penn State by Sandusky when he is 8 to 10 years old.
Jan. 1, 1998: Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1998 Outback Bowl.
1998: Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.
Detective Ronald Schreffler testifies that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdrop on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 has with Sandusky. Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."
Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.
The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge.
June 1999: Sandusky retires from Penn State but still holds emeritus status.
Dec. 28, 1999: Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1999 Alamo Bowl.
Summer 2000: Boy known as Victim 3 meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is between seventh and eighth grade.
Fall 2000: A janitor named James Calhoun observes Sandusky in the showers of the Lasch Football Building with a young boy -- known as Victim 8 -- pinned up against the wall and performing oral sex on the boy. He tells other janitorial staff immediately. Fellow Office of Physical Plant employee Ronald Petrosky cleans the showers at Lasch and sees Sandusky and the boy, who he describes as being between the ages of 11 and 13.
Calhoun tells other physical plant employees what he saw, including Jay Witherite, his immediate supervisor. Witherite tells him to whom he should report the incident. Calhoun was a temporary employee and never makes a report. Victim 8's identity is unknown.
March 1, 2002: A Penn State graduate assistant enters the locker room at the Lasch Football Building. In the showers, he sees a naked boy, known as Victim 2, whose age he estimates to be 10 years old, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant tells his father immediately.
March 2, 2002: In the morning, the graduate assistant calls coach Joe Paterno and goes to Paterno's home, where he reports what he has seen.
March 3, 2002: Paterno calls Tim Curley, Penn State athletic director, to his home the next day and reports a version of what the grad assistant had said.
March 2002: Later in the month the graduate assistant is called to a meeting with Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz. The grad assistant reports what he has seen and Curley and Schultz say they will look into it.
March 27, 2002 (approximate): The graduate assistant hears from Curley. He is told that Sandusky's locker room keys are taken away and that the incident has been reported to The Second Mile. The graduate assistant is never questioned by university police and no other entity conducts an investigation until the graduate assistant testifies in Grand Jury in December 2010.
2005-2006: Boy known as Victim 1 says that meets Sandusky through The Second Mile at age 11 or 12.
Spring 2007: During the 2007 track season, Sandusky begins spending time with Victim 1 weekly, having him stay overnight at his residence in College Township, Pa.
Spring 2008: Termination of contact with Victim 1 occurs when he is a freshman in a Clinton County high school. After the boy's mother calls the school to report sexual assault, Sandusky is barred from the school district attended by Victim 1 from that day forward and the matter is reported to authorities as mandated by law.
Early 2009: An investigation by the Pennsylvania attorney general begins when a Clinton County, Pa. teen boy tells authorities that Sandusky has inappropriately touched him several times over a four-year period.
September 2010: Sandusky retires from day-to-day involvement with The Second Mile, saying he wants to spend more time with family and handle personal matters.
Nov. 5, 2011: Sandusky is arrested and released on $100,000 bail after being arraigned on 40 criminal counts.
Nov. 7, 2011: Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says Paterno is not a target of the investigation into how the school handled the accusations. But she refuses to say the same for university President Graham Spanier. Curley and Schultz, who have stepped down from their positions, surrender on charges that they failed to alert police to complaints against Sandusky.
Nov. 8, 2011: Possible ninth victim of Sandusky contacts state police as calls for ouster of Paterno and Spanier grow in state and beyond. Penn State abruptly cancels Paterno's regular weekly press conference.
Nov. 9, 2011: Paterno announces he'll retire at the end of the season.

[jarvol]

I hadn't heard about this one. I bet the number of actual victims is 100+


Fall 2000: A janitor named James Calhoun observes Sandusky in the showers of the Lasch Football Building with a young boy -- known as Victim 8 -- pinned up against the wall and performing oral sex on the boy. He tells other janitorial staff immediately. Fellow Office of Physical Plant employee Ronald Petrosky cleans the showers at Lasch and sees Sandusky and the boy, who he describes as being between the ages of 11 and 13.
Calhoun tells other physical plant employees what he saw, including Jay Witherite, his immediate supervisor. Witherite tells him to whom he should report the incident. Calhoun was a temporary employee and never makes a report. Victim 8's identity is unknown.

[face]

"ok, special rule sandusky, no more showering with children sandusky." how bout not showering with the fukkin little kids ever. creep school.

[ncsubowen]

wow 20+! That's a lot of boy butt! He going down now but damn, while he was in the game he had a good run!

You sir can burn in hell.

[sandman0713]

feel sorry for the guys on the team, and all the students. i mean say this happened when i was going to okstate...would that mean i was somehow a part of it just because i went to school there? some on this forum, and all around the world really, are pretty shallow and pathetic with some of their comments and thoughts. to imply the players on this team or the students at this school are somehow connected to this is pretty sad. i mean saying like "penn st, those buttphuckers" or things like that pretty much just discredits anything else you have to say as far as i'm concerned. talking about maybe a handfull of people who did wrong, and deserve what they get...but people want to punish everyone else as well for some reason. a person as highly thought of as joepa has been and with his obvious love of the university should have the class to step aside right away...that way everyone in the stadium saturday could stand up and cheer for these players the way they should. but hey...i'm sure some really smart and perfect person will come in here after i post this and call me an idiot for feeling this way.

[BiffTFinancial]

feel sorry for the guys on the team, and all the students. i mean say this happened when i was going to okstate...would that mean i was somehow a part of it just because i went to school there? some on this forum, and all around the world really, are pretty shallow and pathetic with some of their comments and thoughts. to imply the players on this team or the students at this school are somehow connected to this is pretty sad. i mean saying like "penn st, those buttphuckers" or things like that pretty much just discredits anything else you have to say as far as i'm concerned. talking about maybe a handfull of people who did wrong, and deserve what they get...but people want to punish everyone else as well for some reason. a person as highly thought of as joepa has been and with his obvious love of the university should have the class to step aside right away...that way everyone in the stadium saturday could stand up and cheer for these players the way they should. but hey...i'm sure some really smart and perfect person will come in here after i post this and call me an idiot for feeling this way.

someone may do that, but until that happens, i think that your post is spot-on. yeah, there are simply tons of innocent victims here. not to trivialize the victims of the abuse, whose suffering is immeasurable, but i do feel really bad for the seniors on PSU right now. i suppose that it goes to show how the ill actions of a few can break the hearts of many, not to mention the lives of the abuse victims that have been ruined.

[bucsfan]

I honestly don't understand where the scrutiny of JoePa is coming from.

He went straight to the AD and the Vice-President (head of campus police)

what more could JoePa do in all honesty, he did what he needed to do??

People are saying he didn't go to the source, that may be the ONLY thing he did wrong...

How do we know that the AD and VP didn't tell Coach Paterno that "everything was going to be taken care of" then just hide it under the bed.. We don't know.. and this is going to DESTROY the legacy of JoePa.


as for everybody else... LET EM BURN

In all due respect Madden you can't ******* be serious. When one of Paterno's players litter Joe knows before the paper even hits the floor. You know this guy for 40 years and after the first time you don't ask him wtf is this about. Even if Sandusky bullshited him telling him the kid is nuts . there were the rumblings on other occasions even when the janitor walked in who served in Korea and was in tears saying he saw some terrible shit but never anything as disturbing as when he walked in on a 10 year old boy servicing Sandusky in the shower. Paterno then fires this guy once the shit hits the fan repeatdly and gives this guy carte blance to the place and allows this guy to bring kids to closed practices and road trips. He enabled this monster and you think Joe Pa did enough. Read the 23 page grand jury report and then get back to me. This arrogant asshole Paterno was not the feeble old man that he is now. He was more concerned about his legacy and the university than he was about those poor children. WAKE THE **** UP !!

[Bluedragon]

What does PC's mean?

[arnoldrothstein]

I honestly don't understand where the scrutiny of JoePa is coming from.

He went straight to the AD and the Vice-President (head of campus police)

what more could JoePa do in all honesty, he did what he needed to do??

People are saying he didn't go to the source, that may be the ONLY thing he did wrong...

How do we know that the AD and VP didn't tell Coach Paterno that "everything was going to be taken care of" then just hide it under the bed.. We don't know.. and this is going to DESTROY the legacy of JoePa.


as for everybody else... LET EM BURN

Go fukking yourself you piece of shit I hope someone puts a bullet in Paternos head. That **** is the head of psu you douche bag fukker. He was harboring a child rapist for 14a years he knew everything. What would that **** Paterno do if he was told sandisky was in the shower with his grandson. You piece of shit

[Madison]

Here's a sobering thought for those of us somewhat sane folk i.e. NOT PC (Politically correct) we are about to spend millions and millions of dollars making sure this animal is protected and given due process in court despite obvious guilt.

Castrate the bastard NOW! And why are we delaying this a month until 12/7? I guess there isn't enough body of evidence.

I'm so sick I can't/won't gamble and there are few things 9/11 (broke) over the last 40 years that have inhibited me from doing so.

[mgcolby]

wow 20+! That's a lot of boy butt! He going down now but damn, while he was in the game he had a good run!

You're a ******* idiot and clearly you don't have children...which is probably a good thing. ******* moron!

[Nittany Lion]

Everybody slamming Paterno should read this,

http://thatlawyerdude.blogspot.com/2...terno-why.html

[jarvol]

Everybody defending Paterno should read this.

[Madison]

Everybody defending Paterno should read this.

I've coached teenagers. NO Excuse NONE!!!

[Madison]

Don't want last post to be misinterpreted although it would be hard with my prior comments. but thumbs up JARVOL!!!

[Dirty Sanchez]

Paterno deciding he will retire at the end of the season just wreaks of arrogance....he's been there so long that he thinks he is the law and can make that call. If the Board of Trustee's want to send a message and show that they're serious about this situation and the victims, they'll kick Spanier and Paterno in the balls along with McCreary and not let them anywhere near the field this weekend. Having a fukkin Paterno celebration or protest at the game is the last thing that is needed right now.

[ByeShea]

How did Mike McQueary not pump Sandusky when he walked in on him in the shower? If I witnessed that, Sandusky would not have been able to walk off campus.

Because you would have pumped Sandusky so hard he would have trouble walking afterwards?

Aren't you the romantic.

[Madison]

Paterno deciding he will retire at the end of the season just wreaks of arrogance....he's been there so long that he thinks he is the law and can make that call. If the Board of Trustee's want to send a message and show that they're serious about this situation and the victims, they'll kick Spanier and Paterno in the balls along with McCreary and not let them anywhere near the field this weekend. Having a fukkin Paterno celebration or protest at the game is the last thing that is needed right now.

[UnderDog_Philip]

This is sick, I'm reading the grand jury report. He used his charity to get to the some of the boys, can you imagine how these boys felt? Scared, alone and nowhere to go, these boys came from a tough life already and this happens to them. Damn this makes me mad and upset just reading this. And Mike McQueary is a fuking pussy, they should throw him in there with Sandusky.

[Madison]

Because you would have pumped Sandusky so hard he would have trouble walking afterwards? Aren't you the romantic.

Not sure where you're coming from here but any real man would have have stepped in and that fkur would have gone out the nearest window.