[Pokerjoe]

This is RAS's injury report service. Previously, it's been free. Starting with CBB now, they'll be charging a small fee, I think it's $50 for the year.

I don't have a problem with that. I'd pay more for a good injury service, which CIR almost is.

Because I track injuries closely, and CIR is one of my favorite sources, I'm very familiar with it. And it's good, if I only had to choose one injury source for CFB or CBB, I'd make it this one, mainly because the other main service, sportsdirect, doesn't tell us anything about the player's quality, so that I'm constantly flipping open Phil Steel's guide and pulling up stat sites to see where a player rates (Rivals is also very useful, fwiw).

But CIR is still seriously flawed, and if I'm going to pay for it, then, unlike when it was free, I'd expect a better product. Right now, I wouldn't even think of relying on it. My own work is better. I've actually thought of providing an injury analysis service, but I'm not a businessman, so, FML. But if I was, my spreadsheet, honestly, crushes CIR for ease of comprehension, for consistency, for player eval, for organization generally. And I'd imagine that's true of any hardworking handicapper. Yet it's the part of handicapping I most detest. It's just tedious, tedious shit. I'd love to pay for a good service. Instead I'm going to put in a 10 hour day now, and probably another 10 hours combined, in the week. FML there, too.

Here are the flaws I see in CIR right now, that I'd like to see fixed, and for which I'd happily pay a fee.

1) The dates are terrible at CIR. Sometimes really nonsensical. This is the big problem. Consider this one just now (and there are tons of other examples just like it, I'm not picking on one mistake):

11/06 8:06pm TJ Simpson WR Out Knee
Simpson suffered an ACL injury in the spring and is still recovering from surgery. The senior is the team's leading returning receiver from last season where he had 29 catches for 481 yards. Simpson has not played this season.

Ed: it's dated 11/06 ... and the guy hasn't played all year! When I want injury news, as important as anything else is that it BE news. Not re-hash. Simpson being out isn't news. It isn't even a development on old news. It's just crap that makes me spend a minute reading it and then dismissing it. Like any handicapper, I do enough reading and dismissing. The whole point of paying a service for this is to save time. But CIR is filled with this mistake, it's a constant problem. It doesn't make my job easier, with all these false dates, it makes it harder.

2) Players are always being reported as "injured against Akron" or "out since Alabama" and such. I follow the sport closely but even I can't remember every team's schedule. So what I have to do, often, is pull up a team's schedule to see what you're talking about. Because the dates are worthless (see above), for me to know how long a player is out, or when they got hurt, I need to know the week number of the injury or the missed game. Not the opponent. The week. Please say "injured in Week 7" or whatever, not "injured vs. Akron" or whatever.

3) Updates as to who actually missed the games, and who didn't. Questionables, obv, need this question answered. But also late scratches. If I see a player listed as Q for two weeks ago, if I didn't do my own work, I'd be thinking, "Well? Did he play?" All questionables/doubtfuls should be resolved post-game.

4) Better formatting for history. I keep my own spreadsheet, but I'd love a service that shows Player X was Q for Weeks 5 and 6 and missed both, was probable for 7 but played little, etc. We definitely should be able to click on a player's name and see his game log, one that would include starts, if not snaps.

5) The red letter idea for key players is fine, but it could be improved in two main ways. First, this isn't fantasy football here, a team's number 2 WR or RB isn't actually key (those are actually the most overrated positions in the game anyway), yet such guys always seem red lettered. But conversely, way too many guys who are pretty key aren't noted at all. I think a four-tier rate allows more precision. Marginal starter, clear starter, key player (approximately HM or 3rd team all-conference, for an average team) and superstar (~first or second team all-C) is how I do it. It's more complicated than that, but you get the idea.

6) Missing injuries altogether. Every week there are players injured, the info for which is on the net somewhere (if I have it, it's public, because I don't have a spy network), that CIR has missed. If I can dig up the info, a pay service should have it. If I'm going to pay a service, I want to be able to trust it.

7) Gameday late updates. Now, this request is a pipe dream, no doubt. But I'd love to have a service telling me, late as need be, which Qs are out, which are in.

8) Make the info sortable by game matchup. So if USC is playing UCLA, I should be able to see the relevant injury info for both teams with one click.

Okay, that's enough nagging for now. Good luck with it, you know I'm a fan, but as a consumer, I'd say there's a lot of room for improvement. I wish you well because I'd love to pay for a good injury news/evaluation service, and there are none out there.

[Hank63]

not good

[HoulihansTX]

With use of the internet, and time INJ analysis can be done quite easily.

[Powderguy]

waste of money

[Glitch]

rotoworld.com, thespread.com, goldsheet.com

[Pokerjoe]

rotoworld.com, thespread.com, goldsheet.com

Rotoworld, for college info? Seriously? Rotoworld only does offensive players, and even then, doesn't cover the offensive line. You can't rely on a service that excludes 2/3 of the team.

Thespread.com is just sportsdirect. I think goldsheet is sportsnetwork. I know a lot of you think there are a lot of different injury report feeds on the net, but there aren't, they're mostly just different manifestations of a couple of feed sources. What are you going to do, open up SBR odds, click on "i", click on "injuries", and think you're handicapping?

They're all seriously flawed. I'd even say that, by definition, if you rely on these sites for your college injury info, you're a square (and, sure, there are prob guys who think I'm only a notch above square because I rely on internet info for my injury work, and don't have spies, but ... I don't have spies, and none us do, or ever will, so drop that pipe dream).

None of the sites you mentioned have player quality evaluations, which is what CIR offers (sometimes). There are way, way too many CFB players for anyone not named Phil Steele to remember them all, so just being told Player X is out means you then have to research Player X. Even if it only takes a few minutes to research a player's importance, a hundred players getting researched takes a lot of time. Pulling up blogs, local papers, injury sites, box scores for player participation and updated starting lineups, stat sites for game logs, etc, this is time consuming shit. If you spend just 15 minutes early in the week on a team, and 15 minutes later to update, that's a half hour a team, times 120 CFB teams, 32 NFL squads ... do the math. It's not pretty.

I'd pay a hell of a lot more than $50 for a reliable, quality injury service. I actually have an unemployed football-fan friend of mine that I've been training to do it, I pay the guy a whopping $10/hour (he doesn't mind, he's unemployed, bored, likes the work, whatever), but unfortunately he's only just now getting close to being able to do it right (he, like most fans, had no idea of what it entails, to do right) and the season is coming to an end (though I have been able to take a few hundred off what he owes me, lol).

CFB is redic hard for this, but even NFL, which has tons of great coverage for this, takes work. CBB, NHL, NBA and MLB are much easier because injury impacts can be easily quantified. CBB injury info sometimes has to be dug up, but the impacts are clear (go to Ken Pomeroy's site, all the appraisal you can handle). But FB impacts need thought, the impacts are judgment calls, and so the work is more of a PITA.

Here's the thing: anyone doing their own work knows how limited any of the FB sites are for injury info. If you AREN'T doing your own work, you might think it's okay to rely on them. You'd be wrong. It doesn't matter, if you're a rec player, sure, but if you're a rec player, why even think about injuries? Just hang out in PT and make air bets.

HoulihansTX, you said "With use of the internet, and time, INJ analysis can be done quite easily."

Exactly, and any good handicapper does that. It's easily done, sure, but it's the time factor that sucks. Even streamlined, which my work is, because I do it so much, it STILL sucks. It's so freaking boring, slogging through this crap, that every year I hate CFB capping more than the year before, at least this one aspect of it.

FB injuries do not lend themselves to statistical evaluation, they're judgment calls, so they take research and thought. If CIR can provide that service, great, they'll earn their money. Good luck to them, I hope they make the necessary changes.

[chunk]

I totally agree that accurate injury information would be a valuable commodity. It is indeed a boring, tedious process. The info would also need to be timely. Soft openers won't wait for you.