[goldman123]

I placed a large Win bet on an entry at Mountaineer in the second race 3 hours before post time with a morning line of 3-5 because I had a dinner meeting and was not sure I would be back ( The announcer said before the scratch they would have been 1-5) Upon getting home early the good part of the entry was scratched I then immediately called 5dimes race department with a full 15 minutes to post and asked to cancel my bet of $2500 to win and $1000 to place. I spoke with a clerk who put me on hold for 6 minutes who told me I had to talk to the Gm (Tony) and he was only available via live chat after waiting to connect for 4 minutes I asked for Tony and was only connected after the race was over. Here is the transcript what can I do. i have bet horses online for 11 years now and whenever I asked to cancel a bet it was accepted with all sites they have a cancel button via Tvg or twin spires . I cannot believe Tony would not make this right with all that is going on in the industry. This is my first beef ever with a horse wager online in my life. Please advise on what I can do as Tony is really taking a hard stand for what reason I do not know as I am sure In will lose many times over the $3500.

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are not currently in a chat session.
You are not currently in a chat session.
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/jim/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]You are now chatting with 'Percy'
Percy: Hello. How may I assist you today?
jim: can I speak with tony please
Percy: Just a moment please
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/jim/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Tony'.
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/jim/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]You are now chatting with 'Tony'
Tony: how can I help you today?
jim: Tony This is Jim and I bet a horse at Mtn early as soon as that horse was scratched I called the horse dept to cancel my wager and they said I had to contact you. I have never had a cancel with you and this has happened several times and they have always cancelled my bet
jim: Tony i know i will lose a couple hundred grand to you but fair is fair
Tony: coupled pairs still count if one any of any of the grouped horses runs
Tony: it wouldn't get voided at the track
Tony: and it won't get voided here
Tony: if anyone has voided anything like this for you in the past, it was an exception and not the rule
jim: I could cancel that bet at any track in the country and on any horse site Tvg even encourages you to use the cancel button
jim: I never ran into a late scratch with you
jim: twinspires you can cancel until the race is off I called 15 minutes early
Tony: Coupled Pairs: Horses are coupled in the betting if they share the same owner. If you place a wager on one coupled horse, you automatically get the other. So if you select a horse that is part of a coupled pair (horses 1 and 1A), both of the coupled horses are considered as one selection. For example, if you played 1-3-7 as your Trifecta and the result was 1A-3-7, you win. Also, if one horse gets scratched, you have the other horse regardless of which horse you selected. For example, if you select 1A and 1A gets scratched - you still have the 1 horse.
Tony: there will be no canceling of wagers here
jim: Tony as you can see i am a large player I know you have the reputation of being rough but fair I called 15 minutes early.
jim: I have been betting horses online 10 plus years and I have never had a problem cancelling a wager
Tony: its a rule
Tony: thats why it has been written as such
Tony: if you want to play coupled pairs on "twinspires", then play them there
jim: Tony it is amazing you would not make an exception.
Tony: i was asked if the void was approved
Tony: i said no
Tony: i assume the race is done now?
jim: yes it is
jim: I am talking to Bill Dozer about this now
Tony: good, anything else I need to know?
jim: I own a business too have 157 employees and I always try to make it right. I called as soon as the horse was scratched a full 15 minutes before post time i did everything I could I am not asking for any special favors. i know you will beat me for hundreds of g's but right is right.
Tony: void was denied
Tony: speak to anyone you want
Tony: i have to sign off, get ready for a football game
Tony: i'm sure i'll be hearing from all the people you choose to speak to regarding this
Tony: have a good evening
jim: Thanks tony

[bigboydan]

First off, Welcome to the SBRforum

If you feel you need some assistance on this matter please feel free to fill out a complaint form. sir.

[goldman123]

Thank you so much filled out the form

[ProfaneReality]

you are SOL unfortunately... they dont have to grant you a cancellation

I got burned in this exact same situation last weekend at Woodbine.. the better part of the entry scratched at the gate

Sorry for your bad luck

[Gee]

I have bet on a lot of horses in my time, but I really don't understand what bet this is.

A scratching voids almost everything over here. What was this bet about?

[goldman123]

I tried to cancel 15 minutes early I have cancelled at many other offshore books bookmaker legendz bogog with no problems 3 minutes before post. I am especially surprised as I just got a pm because I called in so early and the amount of the bet. I know tony has quite a reputation but a mod just pm'ed me saying he should take care of it regardless and I am dead on not to mention the bad pub they are getting regarding the bounced checks. I have played with them many years without one complaint or cancellation.

[davidchong]

that is why i never place early bets.... a small rain can change track from fast to muddy in 30 minutes......

[mh217]

i will never understand why books jerk around players...they will get it all in the end anyway...i dont have an acct at 5 dimes but that guy tony is def a scumbag.

[goldman123]

It was an entry 1 and 1a that I bet 3 hours early they scratched the 1 and ran the bad part of the entry because of an off track the announcers even said many people were cancelling there bets which I tried to do 15 minutes before post time. I cannot believe I am even having this problem it should have been corrected a long time ago. It is not my intention to rip Tony and 5dimes but judging from the pm's I am getting this has really pissed of others. I just has a manager at a competing sportsbook tell me Tony must be nuts not to rectify this.

[ProfaneReality]

I have bet on a lot of horses in my time, but I really don't understand what bet this is.

A scratching voids almost everything over here. What was this bet about?

An "entry" is when you get 2 horses in the race, they run together, as #1 and #1a

a single wager on the 1, gives you both horses in the race.

so, only 1 scratched, the other one ran, so they consider the bet to have action.

New York race tracks refund WPS wagers in this case, but thats the only place that does in the US

[ProfaneReality]

It was an entry 1 and 1a that I bet 3 hours early they scratched the 1 and ran the bad part of the entry because of an off track the announcers even said many people were cancelling there bets which I tried to do 15 minutes before post time. I cannot believe I am even having this problem it should have been corrected a long time ago. It is not my intention to rip Tony and 5dimes but judging from the pm's I am getting this has really pissed of others. I just has a manager at a competing sportsbook tell me Tony must be nuts not to rectify this.

dont start making stuff up..it wont help your case

[goldman123]

I never thought this thread would get so much action but I want to thank all of you for your support and advice. I agree Tony will get many times the $3500 from me over the long and short haul. It has been my experience that most do not jack you around that is why I am shocked it got this far . In todays day of the internet bad publicity can cripple you. I have had 3 people pm me already and say they would never send five dimes money again.

[ProfaneReality]

Look at this rookie... no one pm'd you pal

[shari91]

I tried to cancel 15 minutes early I have cancelled at many other offshore books bookmaker legendz bogog with no problems 3 minutes before post. I am especially surprised as I just got a pm because I called in so early and the amount of the bet. I know tony has quite a reputation but a mod just pm'ed me saying he should take care of it regardless and I am dead on not to mention the bad pub they are getting regarding the bounced checks. I have played with them many years without one complaint or cancellation.

I have had 3 people pm me already and say they would never send five dimes money again.

Just a hint, from the FAQ's at the bottom of the page

Be advised that PMs are routinely monitored in order to protect SBR and the posters.

If you feel you're right, then fill out the complaint form and SBR will attempt to assist you. But please don't add any flavour to your story at our expense. Thanks and the best of luck.

[rsnnh12]

Just a hint, from the FAQ's at the bottom of the page

Be advised that PMs are routinely monitored in order to protect SBR and the posters.

If you feel you're right, then fill out the complaint form and SBR will attempt to assist you. But please don't add any flavour to your story at our expense. Thanks and the best of luck.

[iceminers26]

you gotta admit it is cute Shari chimming in

you got fked dude, you tried cancelling prior but still got shaft, sorry bud

[andywend]

Goldman, I am no fan of Tony but he is absolutely right here.

When you bet an entry and one of the horses scratches, you are stuck with the other horse. This is the case 100% of the time, WITHOUT EXCEPTION!!!

Even if you got a hold of Tony BEFORE the race went off, he does NOT have to grant you a cancellation even though TVG and tracks allow you to cancel wagers.

If Tony refused to cancel the wager BEFORE the race went off, then its fair to say he no longer deserves your business. However, since you were not able to get a hold of him until AFTER the race went off, then your wager is obviously action.

If the horse you wagered on happened to win while you were on hold trying to cancel the bet, you would have hung up the phone and happily collected the winnings.

Without question, you are 100% wrong here and filling out a complaint form is RIDICULOUS in this case.

[Cap dat 4ss]

If you're a losing player, take your losses elsewhere. If you are a winner, stay there and win as long as they'll let you. Tony is an ass. He is usually fair but does make some decisions that make no business sense whatsoever. SBR will help you very little here. They are in bed with 5dimes and this has been proven time and time again here. Where do you think SBR gets there money? Ya, sponsor books and player losses as an affiliate for the books. Either way, it's books like 5dimes that line Walkers wallet. However I believe they're getting more into marketing now but there is still a major conflict of interest when SBR represents the players against the same books paying their bills. You're smart, do the math.

[ehp6737]

You keep trying to compare TVG with betting horses thru a sportsbook. It's not the same experience when it comes to the flexibility of canceling bets or betting right up to the last minute. I learned this really early on. On the other hand 5Dimes gives you a rebate on losses or an extra 10% on winnings (which I'm sure is exactly why you placed a wager this size with 5Dimes instead of a conventional horse site). TVG or Twinspires or whoever doesnt do anything close to that. So there's good and bad when betting horses offshore. When you bet a coupled entry you take the risk that exactly what happened to you can happen. 5Dimes NEVER cancels wagers and this is no different.

[Al Masters]

I wish you the best in getting your scratch from Tony but i must say for a guy who has been betting horses for 10 years you must know that betting a horse 3 hours before post time is not the sharpest thing you can do.

[pokerplayer22]

I agree that betting horses thru tvg or twin spires is different than thru a book, but what is the big deal that Tony wouldnt cancel the wager before the race goes off. Its not like it affects any line movements or anything. 5dimes does have endless betting options but Tony is a complete ass and doesnt deserve anyones business...and this coming from a player that plays there

[goldman123]

The only reason i bet 3 hours early was because I had a business meeting and was not sure i would be back in time. I make all of my bets 3-5 minutes before post the fact that I called 15 minutes early gave them plenty of time to cancel especially since I know for a fact that they have cancelled bets before. I have ran into this exact situation before with other online books and they have gladly cancelled the bet. The part that makes no sense to me whatsoever being a business owner is that I kiss my customers you know whats to make them happy. With the current state of the offshore market I am shocked Tony would want to piss off anyone much less a big bettor like myself especially since I called in immediately when the horse was scratched.

[Richkas]

Betting 3500 on a 3/5...this guy is right....he will lose that many times over


I love these guys that cant handicap horses and got to wait for the obvious standout....he's a idiot for betting that much on a 3/5 shot...and he's a idiot to be betting at a place like 5 dimes.....2 words twin spires

[pokerplayer22]

Betting 3500 on a 3/5...this guy is right....he will lose that many times over


I love these guys that cant handicap horses and got to wait for the obvious standout....he's a idiot for betting that much on a 3/5 shot...and he's a idiot to be betting at a place like 5 dimes.....2 words twin spires

I agree that betting on 3/5 horses will lead you to poverty fast, but im guessing that he plays at 5dimes because of the extra 10%, which makes a pretty big difference when wagering large amounts like that.

[Bill Dozer]

I placed a large Win bet on an entry at Mountaineer in the second race 3 hours before post time with a morning line of 3-5 because I had a dinner meeting and was not sure I would be back ( The announcer said before the scratch they would have been 1-5) Upon getting home early the good part of the entry was scratched I then immediately called 5dimes race department with a full 15 minutes to post and asked to cancel my bet of $2500 to win and $1000 to place. I spoke with a clerk who put me on hold for 6 minutes who told me I had to talk to the Gm (Tony) and he was only available via live chat after waiting to connect for 4 minutes I asked for Tony and was only connected after the race was over. Here is the transcript what can I do. i have bet horses online for 11 years now and whenever I asked to cancel a bet it was accepted with all sites they have a cancel button via Tvg or twin spires . I cannot believe Tony would not make this right with all that is going on in the industry. This is my first beef ever with a horse wager online in my life. Please advise on what I can do as Tony is really taking a hard stand for what reason I do not know as I am sure In will lose many times over the $3500.

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are not currently in a chat session.
You are not currently in a chat session.
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/jim/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]You are now chatting with 'Percy'
Percy: Hello. How may I assist you today?
jim: can I speak with tony please
Percy: Just a moment please
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/jim/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Tony'.
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/jim/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]You are now chatting with 'Tony'
Tony: how can I help you today?
jim: Tony This is Jim and I bet a horse at Mtn early as soon as that horse was scratched I called the horse dept to cancel my wager and they said I had to contact you. I have never had a cancel with you and this has happened several times and they have always cancelled my bet
jim: Tony i know i will lose a couple hundred grand to you but fair is fair
Tony: coupled pairs still count if one any of any of the grouped horses runs
Tony: it wouldn't get voided at the track
Tony: and it won't get voided here
Tony: if anyone has voided anything like this for you in the past, it was an exception and not the rule
jim: I could cancel that bet at any track in the country and on any horse site Tvg even encourages you to use the cancel button
jim: I never ran into a late scratch with you
jim: twinspires you can cancel until the race is off I called 15 minutes early
Tony: Coupled Pairs: Horses are coupled in the betting if they share the same owner. If you place a wager on one coupled horse, you automatically get the other. So if you select a horse that is part of a coupled pair (horses 1 and 1A), both of the coupled horses are considered as one selection. For example, if you played 1-3-7 as your Trifecta and the result was 1A-3-7, you win. Also, if one horse gets scratched, you have the other horse regardless of which horse you selected. For example, if you select 1A and 1A gets scratched - you still have the 1 horse.
Tony: there will be no canceling of wagers here
jim: Tony as you can see i am a large player I know you have the reputation of being rough but fair I called 15 minutes early.
jim: I have been betting horses online 10 plus years and I have never had a problem cancelling a wager
Tony: its a rule
Tony: thats why it has been written as such
Tony: if you want to play coupled pairs on "twinspires", then play them there
jim: Tony it is amazing you would not make an exception.
Tony: i was asked if the void was approved
Tony: i said no
Tony: i assume the race is done now?
jim: yes it is
jim: I am talking to Bill Dozer about this now
Tony: good, anything else I need to know?
jim: I own a business too have 157 employees and I always try to make it right. I called as soon as the horse was scratched a full 15 minutes before post time i did everything I could I am not asking for any special favors. i know you will beat me for hundreds of g's but right is right.
Tony: void was denied
Tony: speak to anyone you want
Tony: i have to sign off, get ready for a football game
Tony: i'm sure i'll be hearing from all the people you choose to speak to regarding this
Tony: have a good evening
jim: Thanks tony

Hi Goldman,
It stinks that your horse didn't run. Unfortunately there isn't anything we can ask of the book. If the other horse had won, you would have been paid so the house was exposed. These rules are taken into account when the book offers the bet.

[DDT]

I love reading Tony conversations

[Legions36]

I dont know about this, as i never had an issue like this.

[unusialsusp5]

tony wasn't interested in his future losses apparently (how can he be sure that this rebate seeker would continue to bet with him) so he played hardball with him. our wagerer should have known better. no need to bet 3 hours early because of "alleged business meeting". should have waited for another day and another lead pipe cinch to come along.

[pokerplayer22]

Hi Goldman,
It stinks that your horse didn't run. Unfortunately there isn't anything we can ask of the book. If the other horse had won, you would have been paid so the house was exposed. These rules are taken into account when the book offers the bet.

Bill, i think he was trying to cancel the wager 15 minutes before the race even went off. Where is the book exposed in this case? There is no line to move. They could have told him they'd let him cancel this wager but that it was a 1 time exception. I, myself, play at 5dimes but I dont see why their cust service has to be so terrible and Tony treat everyone like an a-hole.

[exstatman]

Sometimes these things have a good outcome. I made a $150 win bet on the wrong number, 8 rather than the intended 9, and like the OP, I called a full 15 minutes before the race trying to correct the bet. They would not bend citing much of the above, even though I was trying to correct, not cancel the bet. Anyway, the 8 ended up winning the race by about 5 lengths at over 30-1, so I ended up with $4700 PLUS $470 on the 10% bonus. And the check came 3 days later.