[Cap dat 4ss]

Ghost town due to unbearable living conditions

[Tree Rollins]

The real story here is that someone actually gives a fuk what 'The Economist' says about anything.

[Ethan]

i don't think survey like this works

[Ethan]

The real story here is that someone actually gives a fuk what 'The Economist' says about anything.

[shari91]

Ummm.... have these economists ever lived in Melbourne?

If Melbourne's #1, I'd hate to see what shithole came in last.

[Cap dat 4ss]

Ummm.... have these economists ever lived in Melbourne? If Melbourne's #1, I'd hate to see what shithole came in last.

All these lists are the same every year. They basically a compilation of which cities overpaid the magazine for good PR. Not that all 10 cities aren't nice, they obviously are but to say that they are the "most livable" cities is absurd. I'm quite sure their criteria for what makes a city "most livable" is very different from mine therefore this list is mainly a novelty that few people take serious. Apparently Forsberg is one of them. I am not. Melbourne was a nice place to visit though as was Vancouver.

[flyingillini]

I'll keep it nice and short boys:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulli...bility-ranking

Source: The Economist

What is it?: List of World's Most Livable Cities

Conclusion:

- Not a single US city in the Top 10

Not from the article, but from the study: "Honolulu at 26th tops American cities in the list just ahead of Pittsburgh, ranked 29th, and Los Angeles (which rose to) 44th and New York (which held onto) 56th place."

Ranking:

1. Australia - Melbourne
2. Austria - Vienna
3. Canada - Vancouver
4. Canada - Toronto
5. Canada - Calgary
6. Australia - Sydney
7. Finland - Helsinki
8. Australia - Perth
9. Australia - Adelaide
10. New Zealand - Auckland

---

Let me ask the obvious question... why do Americans think they live in the greatest nation in the world?

Before all you Americans bombard me with your vague, cookie-cutter, generic insults, just soak in the cold hard facts and realize that you're not as great as you think you are.

You couldn't pay me to live in Los Angeles... place is terrible and takes you forever to get anywhere.... If there were more freeways and less people it would be ok....Maynard said it best...


Only way to fix it is to flush it all away.. 1:50 into the song...

[OTL]

The United States is the greatest place in the world... Anyone who claims otherwise is either jealous or has never been there. Europe is a nice place to live though, but Canada? LOL.

BTW, I am Canadian, and living in Vancouver... What a boring overpoliced town. People can't even handle a hockey loss without rioting for crying out loud.

[Cap dat 4ss]

The United States is the greatest place in the world... Anyone who claims otherwise is either jealous or has never been there. Europe is a nice place to live though, but Canada? LOL. BTW, I am Canadian, and living in Vancouver... What a boring overpoliced town. People can't even handle a hockey loss without rioting for crying out loud.

Agreed. I've traveled all over the world and always love coming home. Oddly though, we're always ready for another vacation away from here as well Been to Vancouver many times and you certainly live in one of the more beautiful cities in North America. Every time we go we climb Mt. Grousse and just love the views.

[shari91]

All these lists are the same every year. They basically a compilation of which cities overpaid the magazine for good PR. Not that all 10 cities aren't nice, they obviously are but to say that they are the "most livable" cities is absurd. I'm quite sure their criteria for what makes a city "most livable" is very different from mine therefore this list is mainly a novelty that few people take serious. Apparently Forsberg is one of them. I am not. Melbourne was a nice place to visit though as was Vancouver.

Apparently: "The ranking scores 140 cities from 0-100 on 30 factors spread across five areas: stability, health care, culture and environment, education, and infrastructure."

So crime, housing prices, cost of living, wages, weather, etc... isn't even taken into account. Yet I'm sure those would be high on any lay person's list of what makes a place "liveable".

But I guess it doesn't matter that:

1. The median house price here in January was $601,500

2. I bought 3 bananas today at $19/kg

3. I pay over $100/mth for Internet that's barely quicker than dial-up at times

4. My last electricity bill was around $2500 - I'm guessing the next one will be close to $4k as we just finished winter. There have been constant reports on the news this winter of the elderly and people on social assistance having to choose between eating and heating.

5. house break-ins and random bashings are rampant here - to the point that I refuse to even walk from my car alone to a restaurant half a block away at night downtown

6. I've already been informed that if I were to still be living here in 2yrs when my son starts kindergarten, he'll have to go to a private school as there'll be no room for him in any of the public ones in our area. Cheapest I could find so far that at least entertained the idea of putting my son on the waiting list (about 6 suburbs away) was $16k a year. For kindergarten. So while it's great to hear the education system is thought of as decent here, it's too bad that I'd have to shell out a crapload of money so my child can learn to colour within the lines.

7. There's a very large homelessness problem. Shelters are completely full and it's next to impossible to even get a spot in a rooming house. Oh and the last time I saw a report on the news, the public housing waiting list was 6 years long.

I could keep going but there's no point. The Economist said that this list was initially created to assist HR people in determining whether they should pay their employees a hardship allowance if they were made to move somewhere for their job. That's it. So yeah - if you have some money and can adequately protect yourself from crime, then this is a great place I guess. But anyone who thinks this list is indicative of anything meaningful based on the factors it uses obviously has a very different idea of what I believe makes somewhere liveable. Nice to hear our infrastructure is rated highly though

[hawley]

Shari that power bill....what the f\*\*k???

[PittsburghPlayer]

Pittsburgh as the second best place to live in the US and NYC as 4th Shittsburgh is T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E

I do not live in Pittsburgh though I am very fond of the city, it's history and it's culture. If Pittsburgh is SO TERRIBLE, you prove Forsbergs point, cuz truth is, it is a pretty nice city. You probably have not traveled enough to know what you are writing about.

[shari91]

Shari that power bill....what the f\*\*k???

Tell me about it.

Fair enough that my house is kind of big and it's not like I can allow it to get too cold or too hot since I have a toddler so right there that sort of screws me. But the main issue is that the government forced us to get these f'n smart meters in my area for our electricity and now power bills have gone crazy. I'm surprised people haven't started a riot yet. Or maybe they will once they get their winter bill.

[pavyracer]

USA sucks but Canada blows.

[King Mayan]

You couldn't pay me to live in Los Angeles... place is terrible and takes you forever to get anywhere.... If there were more freeways and less people it would be ok....Maynard said it best...


Only way to fix it is to flush it all away.. 1:50 into the song...

Illini, Los Angeles is the best city in California, hands down... San Fran has nothing on the LOS.

[brooks85]

Tell me about it.

Fair enough that my house is kind of big and it's not like I can allow it to get too cold or too hot since I have a toddler so right there that sort of screws me. But the main issue is that the government forced us to get these f'n smart meters in my area for our electricity and now power bills have gone crazy. I'm surprised people haven't started a riot yet. Or maybe they will once they get their winter bill.

same is happening over here, dam technological advances, i just had my installed last month. A buddy told me the same thing tho, that his bill went up so Im waiting to see.

time to get some solar cells.

[slapshot]

we all know peter forsberg is probably the best swedish hockey player ever and he wore 21.....are you swedish?
before you start taking shots at america you should man up at tell us what your reference point is.......where do you come from?

[forsberg21]

we all know peter forsberg is probably the best swedish hockey player ever and he wore 21.....are you swedish?
before you start taking shots at america you should man up at tell us what your reference point is.......where do you come from?

Why is that even relevant?

The fact of the matter is that the USA isn't nearly as great as it thinks it is. The USA's best city ranked #26, that's nothing to be proud of for the self proclaimed greatest country in the world.

[OTL]

Why is that even relevant?

Because it gives us a reference point to know where you're coming from. Without it we just have to assume that you're a troll who lives in the lamest country in the European Union.

[Optional]

Apparently: "The ranking scores 140 cities from 0-100 on 30 factors spread across five areas: stability, health care, culture and environment, education, and infrastructure."

So crime, housing prices, cost of living, wages, weather, etc... isn't even taken into account. Yet I'm sure those would be high on any lay person's list of what makes a place "liveable".

But I guess it doesn't matter that:

1. The median house price here in January was $601,500

2. I bought 3 bananas today at $19/kg

3. I pay over $100/mth for Internet that's barely quicker than dial-up at times

4. My last electricity bill was around $2500 - I'm guessing the next one will be close to $4k as we just finished winter. There have been constant reports on the news this winter of the elderly and people on social assistance having to choose between eating and heating.

5. house break-ins and random bashings are rampant here - to the point that I refuse to even walk from my car alone to a restaurant half a block away at night downtown

6. I've already been informed that if I were to still be living here in 2yrs when my son starts kindergarten, he'll have to go to a private school as there'll be no room for him in any of the public ones in our area. Cheapest I could find so far that at least entertained the idea of putting my son on the waiting list (about 6 suburbs away) was $16k a year. For kindergarten. So while it's great to hear the education system is thought of as decent here, it's too bad that I'd have to shell out a crapload of money so my child can learn to colour within the lines.

7. There's a very large homelessness problem. Shelters are completely full and it's next to impossible to even get a spot in a rooming house. Oh and the last time I saw a report on the news, the public housing waiting list was 6 years long.

I could keep going but there's no point. The Economist said that this list was initially created to assist HR people in determining whether they should pay their employees a hardship allowance if they were made to move somewhere for their job. That's it. So yeah - if you have some money and can adequately protect yourself from crime, then this is a great place I guess. But anyone who thinks this list is indicative of anything meaningful based on the factors it uses obviously has a very different idea of what I believe makes somewhere liveable. Nice to hear our infrastructure is rated highly though

$19/kg for bananas is a weather related supply issue, I'm sure you know they are normally 2 or 3 bucks.

$2500 for a quarter electricity isn't representative either. My sister's 7 bedroom house with 6 people living in it was about $1500 last bill, which most people think is high for a quarter. So you are either growing hydro pot or running your heating with the windows open or something??

It is bloody expensive here compared to the states though, no argument there.


The one thing that surprised me was your view about the place being crime ridden though. My doors and windows are never locked and I'd be happy to walk around in almost any main street in Sydney city at any time of night. Even Kings Cross. I guess women are less confident, but I don't sit around worrying about my 3 daughters being out in town at night.


I did go and look up the statistics though... and even though Australia didn't make the top 60, I was shocked to see 2 of the other most liveable places are ranked 2 and 3 for crime rate.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...mes-per-capita

New Zealand more than 1 crime per 10% of population. Finland close behind. Both more than 20% higher than the US.

[zam77]

forsberp is a quack. he cares too much. every post he makes is sad because he shows how big of a dork he is spending his time trying to show us all he is an inet hero. hey forsberg... make sure you tell your real life friends (if there are such a thing) how you keep tearing it up online... Ahahahha... Omg if you were my friend I'd commit myself. forsberg getting hard thinking about how he is getting to people... one more time for good measure... hahahahahaahahha... you are the epitomy of an inet attention seeking dork. forsberg... you got that... find something less dorky to post about. oh... one more thing, you are a dork.

[shari91]

$19/kg for bananas is a weather related supply issue, I'm sure you know they are normally 2 or 3 bucks. $2500 for a quarter electricity isn't representative either. My sister's 7 bedroom house with 6 people living in it was about $1500 last bill, which most people think is high for a quarter. So you are either growing hydro pot or running your heating with the windows open or something?? It is bloody expensive here compared to the states though, no argument there. The one thing that surprised me was your view about the place being crime ridden though. My doors and windows are never locked and I'd be happy to walk around in almost any main street in Sydney city at any time of night. Even Kings Cross. I guess women are less confident, but I don't sit around worrying about my 3 daughters being out in town at night. I did go and look up the statistics though... and even though Australia didn't make the top 60, I was shocked to see 2 of the other most liveable places are ranked 2 and 3 for crime rate. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...mes-per-capita New Zealand more than 1 crime per 10% of population. Finland close behind. Both more than 20% higher than the US.

Yeah bananas are normally much cheaper but when was the last time they were? January? And no, no pot or open windows for me. I compared my bill with the owner of the house who was living here last year at the same time I got my recent bill. His usage was almost 1.5 times higher than mine - his bill was $1300. And he had 2 adults/3 kids living here whereas it's just me and my son. My next door neighbours are an elderly man and woman. Their bill last year was $700 - this year with less usage it was $1100. The main thing we can attribute it to is the smart meters - but since they're forced on us, it's not like there's much we can do about it other than turn off your heat/don't use your air conditioning. But that's not an option for me.

Downtown Melbourne: The crime going on there has been happening for quite a few years but has definitely picked up within the last 2 or so years to the point where the most recent mayor ran on a campaign partially based on promising to clean it up. Most of my friends just avoid it altogether now - men and women - because too much crap has gone on and it's not worth potentially finding yourself in a bad situation.

Here's an article in the Age about it. Crime overall in Victoria apparently dropped in 2010 (I'll explain my use of the word apparently in a second) but assaults in the CBD and aggravated burglaries in Melbourne (people are home during the break ins) went up.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cr...223-1b4le.html

As for the "apparently": Victoria Police were caught out by the Ombudsman in June for releasing inaccurate crime data in October because it was an election year. "Data released before last year's state election highlighted a drop in street assaults. But it did not mention a rise in assaults in car parks and at railway stations." So any crime statistics out there about Melbourne at the moment are a bit off unfortunately.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...site=melbourne

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...site=melbourne

And that's what I said in my post: House break ins and walking from my car alone at night to a restaurant downtown. Crimes in both circumstances have increased.

I'm not trashing Melbourne by any means. But even the people I had over here for my son's birthday (most of them born and raised in Melbourne) all laughed along with me when we first saw this list on the news Thursday night and we joked that Tourism Australia must've paid a good price for the ranking. Of course at the time I didn't know what they actually based this list on. There are many things I'll miss about this city when we move. But a list that ranks on the 5 factors I posted yet doesn't take things into consideration that every day people actually care about seems to be quite an irrelevant judge of much of anything.

[Optional]

Sounds like I should worry more about the two daughters who now live in Richmond down there. :\

I lived in Melbourne for about 4 years in the 80s and loved the place. Hard to imagine it not being like a big safe country town any more

[P.F.Kasooff]

forsberg21's pecker is smaller than JJ's

Yes -235
No +200

[yisman]

Before all you Americans bombard me with your vague, cookie-cutter, generic insults, just soak in the cold hard facts and realize that you're not as great as you think you are.

"Before all you Americans bombard me with your vague, cookie-cutter, generic insults, just soak in the cold hard facts and realize that you're not as great as you think you are."

"Before all you Americans bombard me with your vague, cookie-cutter, generic insults, just soak in the cold hard facts and realize that you're not as great as you think you are."

"Before all you Americans bombard me with your vague, cookie-cutter, generic insults, just soak in the cold hard facts and realize that you're not as great as you think you are."

"You are a mindless troll. Go away."

[Roadtrip635]

Yeah bananas are normally much cheaper but when was the last time they were? January? And no, no pot or open windows for me. I compared my bill with the owner of the house who was living here last year at the same time I got my recent bill. His usage was almost 1.5 times higher than mine - his bill was $1300. And he had 2 adults/3 kids living here whereas it's just me and my son. My next door neighbours are an elderly man and woman. Their bill last year was $700 - this year with less usage it was $1100. The main thing we can attribute it to is the smart meters - but since they're forced on us, it's not like there's much we can do about it other than turn off your heat/don't use your air conditioning. But that's not an option for me.

Downtown Melbourne: The crime going on there has been happening for quite a few years but has definitely picked up within the last 2 or so years to the point where the most recent mayor ran on a campaign partially based on promising to clean it up. Most of my friends just avoid it altogether now - men and women - because too much crap has gone on and it's not worth potentially finding yourself in a bad situation.

Here's an article in the Age about it. Crime overall in Victoria apparently dropped in 2010 (I'll explain my use of the word apparently in a second) but assaults in the CBD and aggravated burglaries in Melbourne (people are home during the break ins) went up.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cr...223-1b4le.html

As for the "apparently": Victoria Police were caught out by the Ombudsman in June for releasing inaccurate crime data in October because it was an election year. "Data released before last year's state election highlighted a drop in street assaults. But it did not mention a rise in assaults in car parks and at railway stations." So any crime statistics out there about Melbourne at the moment are a bit off unfortunately.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...site=melbourne

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...site=melbourne

And that's what I said in my post: House break ins and walking from my car alone at night to a restaurant downtown. Crimes in both circumstances have increased.

I'm not trashing Melbourne by any means. But even the people I had over here for my son's birthday (most of them born and raised in Melbourne) all laughed along with me when we first saw this list on the news Thursday night and we joked that Tourism Australia must've paid a good price for the ranking. Of course at the time I didn't know what they actually based this list on. There are many things I'll miss about this city when we move. But a list that ranks on the 5 factors I posted yet doesn't take things into consideration that every day people actually care about seems to be quite an irrelevant judge of much of anything.

Where I live, the city was offering those free smart meters last year and there was a big problem of those peoples bills going up as well. A couple local news stations ran reports, most people replaced them.

[shari91]

Where I live, the city was offering those free smart meters last year and there was a big problem of those peoples bills going up as well. A couple local news stations ran reports, most people replaced them.

Unfortunately we don't really have a choice although a few crusty senior citizens have gone apeshit. This made me laugh: "An old man in Ringwood has threatened to set his dogs on installers, and another more benign bloke wants to turn the garden hose on them." http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/...-1226001865756

One of many reasons I love Aussies. These guys don't take being screwed over lightly even when they're stuck.

Even more ridiculous: We have to pay to get them installed.

[griz]

foreskin what are the top 10 cities to get ur ass kicked in? your cruisin for a bruisin pal

[Full Time Hobo]

It's all relative.
"One man's trash is another man's treasure."

Who cares what you think honestly.

[slapshot]

Why is that even relevant?

The fact of the matter is that the USA isn't nearly as great as it thinks it is. The USA's best city ranked #26, that's nothing to be proud of for the self proclaimed greatest country in the world.

why that is relevant......are you kidding me?

you got zero credibility and you got no right to criticize if you never say what your reference point is.....all you do is picking cherries all over the place.....country 'a' is better than the us at this and country 'b' is better than the us at that.

no country is perfect.....trust me...i know....i have lived in 3 countries in europe and in 2 states in the us.

i have lovely experiences form each and every one of these countries......but is anyone perfect?....no....do they all have problems.....you bet.

how many countries have you lived in?

lets assume for a minute you're from north korea and firmly believes their way of life is the best in the world we can understand where you're coming from and what set of values you operate under.

if you never say where you're from....or what your ideal country is.....shut your yap please!

[forsberg21]

why that is relevant......are you kidding me?

you got zero credibility and you got no right to criticize if you never say what your reference point is.....all you do is picking cherries all over the place.....country 'a' is better than the us at this and country 'b' is better than the us at that.

no country is perfect.....trust me...i know....i have lived in 3 countries in europe and in 2 states in the us.

i have lovely experiences form each and every one of these countries......but is anyone perfect?....no....do they all have problems.....you bet.

how many countries have you lived in?

lets assume for a minute you're from north korea and firmly believes their way of life is the best in the world we can understand where you're coming from and what set of values you operate under.

if you never say where you're from....or what your ideal country is.....shut your yap please!

You're an idiot along with the generic vomit you've spewed on here:

"no country is perfect" Really? Wow, thanks for the insight!

"you got zero credibility and you got no right to criticize if you never say what your reference point is" I think you're looking for the word "you HAVE zero... you HAVE no right"... learn how to speak English properly and then maybe we'll take you seriously.

I've lived in 6 countries and visited more than 2 dozen.

There's no relevance between where I'm from and this The Economist study. None. The fact that the USA's best city came in at #26 has no bearing on where I'm from. If you're trying to find a logical correlation between the two, you're showing us how empty your brain really is.

[neverstoppers23]

Don't really get what this means. But since LA is on that list, that is all i need to know on how to judge the quality of the analysis

[Cap dat 4ss]

Shari already debunked this study. The #1 city on their "most livable" list is nearly unlivable What a joke and to think you actually bought it

[King Mayan]

Don't really get what this means. But since LA is on that list, that is all i need to know on how to judge the quality of the analysis

what's wrong with LA? Let me guess youve seen boyz in the hood and think all of LA is a ghetto.

[forsberg21]

Shari already debunked this study. The #1 city on their "most livable" list is nearly unlivable What a joke and to think you actually bought it

Unlivable according to who, you?

I'll take The Economist's rigorous research over anything you have to say any day of the week you degenerate.