[peacebyinches]

Hey guys, I am looking for some advice on becoming a successful, real-life (meaning not based on the internet) bookie/sportsbook operator. Basically me and a few friends are considering creating a "sportsbook" (basically we would just be a few guys who take bets from people, so I guess it would be more like a firm of bookies... or something like that) and even though we have a solid understanding of what is needed to be on the gambling side of the business, we feel we might be missing a few things about being on the other side.

We aren't expecting to make wads of cash doing this, especially at first, but we also don't want to waste our time, miss out on potential earnings or even lose money so we are getting at this in the most cautious manner possible, while trying to learn as much as we can about the business of accepting sports wagers. Our simplified business strategy at this point is something like this:

1. We realize we are going to have an extremely small clientele, especially at first, so we plan on having a really low maximum sized bets policy in place to reduce our risk of losing more than we can afford to.

2. We also plan on offering very pricey lines in order to maximize our vigorish as well as offering relatively inflated parlay odds (and a maximum parlay payoff amount we think would be reasonable).

3. Never accept wagers that could push us over the edge of being able to immediately pay the bettors out. Wagers may have to be declined or lowered in size somewhat frequently at first.

4. Never accept bets without having the money in hand first. No credit wagering allowed. I guess we would allow people to set up an "account" with us where we have their money (but is still theirs to get back whenever of course) for further convenience but I doubt very many people would be willing to do that.

5. For line making, we simply would use what appears to be the most accepted line at the popular sportsbooks for the opening line and adjust accordingly.

Now some questions

Line changing: With not a lot of people placing wagers, I worry that numerous games will have extremely lopsided amounts of wagers on one side or the other (as in 100% to 0%) which worries me. What would you recommend as the most effective way to obtain relatively equal amounts of action on each side of most games to ensure we can profit from the vigorish (rather than simply profiting from losing wagers which is not what we are ultimately after)? I feel massive spread and line adjustments are going to create arbitrage opportunities and may not be in our best interest... Declining a LOT of bets? Refund wagers made (before the game of course) on games with tremendously lopsided amounts of action?

Also, we are aware that sportsbooks hedge their own potential losses by betting on certain games where they could stand to lose a significant amount of money on a certain outcome at other sportsbooks. I am just wondering how prevalent this practice is and possibly some tips on utilizing this risk reduction strategy effectively.

If you know (or are) a bookie any tips would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

[sweethook]

fuk that just roll with sbr's book. gl man

[Ian]

Advice on starting up your very on sportsbook

Don't.

[peacebyinches]

criticism is welcome, but could you elaborate a bit ? I'm well aware this may sound like some overly idealistic idea some drunken degenerates came up with at 3 am one night, but its something we have been thinking about trying. ya know ?

[Maniac]

Whatever you do you can't start voiding bets before the off just because you have a lot of one-sides action as you punters wont like it and will bet elsewhere.

Depending on where you are based, and how savvy your clientele are, then you dont necessarily have to offer the "market price" on a game if you expect one-sided action on a game - for instance if you live in San Diego then it stands to reason that most of your clients would be from there as well, and if they are typical punters just looking for a bet on their team and are not price savvy then just because the market price on them is -4.5 then you could offer -5 or even -5.5 if you know your clients would still be likely to take that price.

Thats the key point for me if you are thinking of starting up - you need to study the bets and really get to know your clientbase and get a handle on their betting habits, that way if you spot that the majority of action comes on certain teams, or if mostly they are mostly betting favs, then you can use this info to your advantage and shade the line to compensate. Shading a line even just half a point or a point and still laying it gives you a little boost that will pay off over the long haul and also maximises your chances of hedgeing bets at a better price if you do still have one-sided action on the shaded line.

[jjgold]

Jail
Your a kid with no money
Bad question to ask here

If your asking questions you have no understanding of this.

[peacebyinches]

well, of course the legality issue is an important thing to think about, but realistically, how many bookies accepting double digit wagers actually get in serious legal trouble? its not like we were planning on seeing millions of dollars being wagered and laundered while we walk around with twin Uzis in our back pockets and feel the need to search our house for wire taps daily or something. just seems to benign of a thing for anyone to care

[jjgold]

What do you mean double digit wagers?

[peacebyinches]

double digit sized bets. as in I doubt we will find anything other than clueless squares trying to bet more than $50 a time to make Sundays a little more exciting

[TheMoneyShot]

Were you and your buds hitting a bong while discussing this matter? Like cheech and chong style? Like, you guys are going to be US Entrepreneurs. Get outta here before I wipe my a$$ with you.

[jjgold]

Not worth it

You need about 50-100 steady $50-$300 type players

[wantitall4moi]

someone must have seen Bookies the other day.

[mrmarket]

Well asking for advice on how to run an illegal bookmaking operation on a forum full of degenerates is a great first step in the right direction! I mean the advice you're going to get is just top notch boys!

First step is to rent a PO box and buy the following:

1) 5 boxes of tampons
2) lubricating jelly
3) Bottle of mouthwash

That is the amateur bookie survival kit because one of the following will happen:

A) The government will find out about your operation and you will get fukked in prison
B) Rival bookie/organization who have a monopoly on action will fukk you college boys with some 2 cent goons
C) Lucky punter will rape your coffers on a positive variance run (which is a something you have no concept of atm). If you do manage to pay him you limp wrists won't even be able to collect on the bad degens. You boys want some assault charges pinned to you?

So go back to sitting in front of the tube with the 24 pack, keep toking the water bong and intelligently discussing MMA fight strategies or how many easy drunk co-eds you've fukked.

[Tech N9ne]

Tyrone is waiting for you and your boys in prison

[Tully Mars 63]

Seriously? Wow the joys of youth.

[GreekMagic]

You willing to break knees?
If you're planning on starting with friends first it'll be worse...money between friends is worse than sand between your ass cheeks.

[stogies]

Your either really stupid and got no clue what your doing by asking this question at this site or your throwing out the question just trolling for new customers. SBR needs to keep a very close eye on your PM's.

[VegasInsider]

That's illegal.

[pavyracer]

What country are you from? Depending on which country you are based there are different gaming laws you have to comply.

[Waterstpub87]

Lol at a bookie not taking credit. Nobody is going to post up at a popcorn operation like that.

[jarvol]

1. You and one other friend tops. If you get involved with a group of friends one of them will roll on you as soon as he gets a speeding ticket.

2. You have to give credit accounts if you are a local. Start with people you know or see occasionally or are acquaintances or friends of acquaintances etc.

3. If you have "pricey" lines you won't get any players. Just use standard 10% vig and you will make money.

4. If you are worried about one-sided action with $50 players then you have absolutely no business being a bookie. You need a bankroll to start with.

[High3rEl3m3nt]

I have never been a bookie, but I am a small business owner and I immediately see a flaw in how you are trying to set this up. Never...Never...get more people involved with the ownership than is absolutely necessary! I strongly recommend never starting a business with friends. If you want to do this, do it by yourself and maybe wait a year before launching, as it sounds like funds could be a problem. I think launching next year around football season would be much better than trying to start this year while trying to iron out all the important details...by the way, it's all in the details!

[peacebyinches]

thanks for the advice guys, I'll try and address a few of the issues brought up:

Of all the critiques I find the mention of mixing friends and money as being bad news bears is something I didn't think of, but actually may be one of the hardest obstacles. Primarily I hope to involve acquaintances more than close pals as bettors, but I now see the problem of having to keep a couple hundred of a good friends money in the name of business (or losing a few hundred to them) even if it seems like chump change at first, a winning or losing streak by either end could result in some bitter feelings... I'll have to think about possible harm reduction scenarios for this issue for sure.

About the no credit thing, I actually find there to be one huge upside and one huge downside to this strategy:

Upside - Payments are guaranteed, no degenerates dipping out on their wagers. No need for leg breaking on our part drastically reducing the potential for one of us to get a beat down.

Downside - Inconvenient as hell. Certain people that we don't frequently see are going to be hard to accept wagers from without someone making a trip (or forcing them to make a trip, a huge deterrent I realize).

Possibly once more trusting relationships have been established with people we see frequently, we could set up a credit system... but I would still want to keep the limit rather low.

For the crappy lines, I feel that the sense of security of not having to give some strangers in Central America your money (and personal information as well) as well as guaranteed quick access to any winnings should be worth something right? That and the fact that besides online sites, there really is no other place that is going to accept their bets unless they happen to know other bookies (which I believe is a rarer commodity than many of us degenerates realize, running into the occasional bookie may not be such a big deal to all of us highroller, professional gamblers but would not be a common occurrence for the vast majority of people) would be a big help as well. The most important point though, is that if these clients are able to calculate +EV value and arbitrage opportunities blah blah I don't mind losing them as a customer, especially at first. Once things get going, the odds will improve and limits could go up, but at first our main customer base will hopefully be mostly squares trying to make saturday and sunday a little more interesting with delusional hopes of making easy money with little to no handicapping background.

And also, as of now only me and my friend are strongly interested in this, where as others have feigned interest but I know wouldn't be committed or willing to invest any serious money.

[peacebyinches]

Also as far as funds go, I agree that the amount of money we can put into an operation like this may not be whopping, but maybe more than you think. What would be a decent size starting out be?

[manny24]

you would need 75k minimum but that is beside the point here...i mean if you are seriously thinking about going down this road it will end badly just sayin'.

[Cap dat 4ss]

Get on 5dimes live chat and ask Tony for advice. I can't see him being anything other than gentlemanly about it.

[bill2266]

dont not worth it

[Inkwell77]

You have to just settle up at the end of the week. This paying money before you bet thing doesn't work in real life except at an actual sportsbook.


Don't do it unless you already have friends that want you to take their action. Too risky, not enough reward.
The fact that booking bets is illegal is beyond ludicrous.

[High3rEl3m3nt]

I wouldn't want any customers to know me or my personal information if I was going to do this. I have seen people get jealous for no good reason and go out of their way to sabotage peoples' reputations...and I'm talking about the art industry out of all things. People who are acquaintances, friends, and your enemies can all act the same under the right conditions. God, if you start this up with your friends your more doomed... reminds me of the first business that I started with my Fijian friend. Had him meet up with a potential designer, which made me a little uneasy because I could not be at the meeting. The next thing I know, he's texting me about how pretty she is and whether he should by her a coffee and make small talk. Long story short he made a move on her, she accuses me of trying to set the two of them up, and she threatens to file a sexual harassment lawsuit against him. Another perfect example of a business partner screwing up the whole operation occurred recently to one of my clients, who does graphic design/ commercial photography (big money! Xango, Skull Candy, etc.) His business partner inappropriately touched one of the models, who he claims consented, and he's in a sexual assault court battle. I could go on and on...I have a friend who is having to sell his art gallery because of "friends" who ended up turning on him.

[Powderguy]

BHAHAHAHA this place is too much

[Killer_Demo]

you need constant clientelle...cant live off 3-4 guys making bets here and there

[Tully Mars 63]

Maybe he has a lot of friends... like several hundred who regularly gamble.

[BranchDavidian]

Exactly where do you think you will get all these unsophisticated bettors from? Do you think you can just announce to the world that you are opening your new book, with no money, and scores of idiots will flock in to your book with deposits? You might be able to interest a few of your friends, but other than that, you are not going to find anyone that fits your customer description. If you actually do put up a lot of cash and use a pph shop and do some advertising, the customers that you do draw in, if any, will mostly not be Joe-Sunday looking to put $50 on the local football team. Those guys are not looking for unknown little bookies, the vast majority of which go broke. You will end up with the sharps looking to take advantage of you with a small deposit, figuring if they get in quick, before you have a chance to go broke, and get out quick. Oh, by the way, I am opening my own book today. I have a little cash, and no other customers. But if you would send in a $500 deposit, I will credit you with a 100% bonus!

[Br0nxer]

Well asking for advice on how to run an illegal bookmaking operation on a forum full of degenerates is a great first step in the right direction! I mean the advice you're going to get is just top notch boys!

First step is to rent a PO box and buy the following:

1) 5 boxes of tampons
2) lubricating jelly
3) Bottle of mouthwash

That is the amateur bookie survival kit because one of the following will happen:

A) The government will find out about your operation and you will get fukked in prison
B) Rival bookie/organization who have a monopoly on action will fukk you college boys with some 2 cent goons
C) Lucky punter will rape your coffers on a positive variance run (which is a something you have no concept of atm). If you do manage to pay him you limp wrists won't even be able to collect on the bad degens. You boys want some assault charges pinned to you?

So go back to sitting in front of the tube with the 24 pack, keep toking the water bong and intelligently discussing MMA fight strategies or how many easy drunk co-eds you've fukked.

[tickingclock1]

Not worth it

You need about 50-100 steady $50-$300 type players

minnows last forever. whales done. Good advice.