[pavyracer]

Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:08 PM EDT
The Associated Press
By JOHN SEEWER Associated Press Writer


HOLLAND, Ohio (AP) — Joe the Plumber's story sprang a few leaks Thursday. Turns out that the man who was held up by John McCain as the typical, hard-working American taxpayer isn't really a licensed plumber. And court documents show he owes nearly $1,200 in back taxes.

"Joe," whose name is Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, was cited repeatedly in Wednesday night's final presidential debate by McCain for questioning Barack Obama's tax policy.

Wurzelbacher instantly became a media celebrity, fielding calls during the debate and facing reporters outside his home near Toledo on Thursday morning for an impromptu nationally televised news conference.

The burly, bald man acknowledged he doesn't have a plumber's license, but said he didn't need one because he works for someone else at a company that does residential work.

But Wurzelbacher still would need to be a licensed apprentice or journeyman to work in Toledo, and he's not, said David Golis, manager and residential building official for the Toledo Division of Building Inspection.

State and local records show Wurzelbacher has no license, although his employer does. Golis said there are no records of inspectors citing Wurzelbacher for unlicensed work in Toledo.

And then there was the matter of his taxes.

Wurzelbacher owes the state of Ohio $1,182.98 in personal income tax, according to Lucas County Court of Common Pleas records.

In January 2007, Ohio's Department of Taxation filed a claim on his property until he pays the debt, according to the records. The lien remains active.

At the debate, McCain cited Wurzelbacher as an example of someone who wants to buy a plumbing business but would be hurt by Obama's tax plans.

Wurzelbacher, a self-described conservative, had spoken to Obama at a rally Sunday near his home and asked him whether his tax plan would keep him from buying the business that currently employs him, which earns more than $250,000 a year.

"Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?" Wurzelbacher asked.

Obama said that under his proposal taxes on any revenue from $250,000 on down would stay the same, but that amounts above that level would be subject to a 39 percent tax, instead of the current 36 percent rate.

McCain said Obama's plan would stop entrepreneurs such as Wurzelbacher from investing in new small businesses and keep existing ones from growing.

The McCain campaign posted a Web ad featuring the exchange between Wurzelbacher and Obama.

During an afternoon taping of "Late Show with David Letterman," McCain said he had not yet spoken to Wurzelbacher, and apologized for the press attention he had received.

"Joe, if you're watching, I'm sorry," McCain said.

Wurzelbacher had to deal with a clog of two dozen reporters outside his home on a narrow street lined with ranch- and split-level homes Thursday morning. No detail about the divorced father of a 13-year-old boy was too small: Was he a registered voter? Did he have a plumbing license? Whom will he vote for?

Leaning against his black Dodge Durango SUV, Wurzelbacher at first was amused by it all, then overwhelmed and finally a little annoyed.

"I don't have a lot of pull. It's not like I'm Matt Damon," he said "I just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself."

He indicated he was a fan of the military and McCain but wouldn't say who will get his vote. He is registered as a Republican, the county elections board said, because he voted in the GOP primary in March.

Wurzelbacher said a McCain campaign official contacted him several days before the debate to ask him to appear with the candidate at a Toledo rally scheduled for Sunday.

He told reporters he's unsure if he'll attend, since he's now scheduled to be in New York for TV interviews.

On Thursday in New Hampshire, Obama said McCain was misleading voters by proposing tax plans that favor the rich while criticizing an Obama tax plan that would raise taxes only on people making more than $250,000 a year, just 5 percent of all taxpayers.

"He's trying to suggest that a plumber is the guy he's fighting for," Obama said. "How many plumbers you know that are making a quarter-million dollars a year?"

Wurzelbacher said he felt a bit overwhelmed by all the attention.

"I'm kind of like Britney Spears having a headache. Everybody wants to know about it," he joked.

[Fishhead]

Freaking classic.......

[ryanXL977]

if this were any other year, the gop slime machine might work
but when thee economy is trashed, people dont care so much about swift boating and lies

well, excdpt ms61853

[picantel]

I love this conspiracy theory. Was he a plant. Inquiring minds wanna know.

Keating In-Law Enters Plea And Will Assist Prosecutors

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writePost();new_york_times:http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...260&sec=&spon=



By RICHARD W. STEVENSON,
Published: May 16, 1992
A son-in-law of Charles H. Keating Jr. pleaded guilty today to three Federal fraud counts in connection with the collapse of the Lincoln Savings and Loan Assocation and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors as they pursue their case against Mr. Keating.
The guilty plea was the sixth from executives and business associates of Lincoln and its parent company, but was the first crack in what until now had been a united Keating family defense against the charges in the case.
Mr. Keating and a son, Charles H. Keating 3d, still face an array of fraud and racketeering charges brought against them in a 77-count Federal indictment issued last year. Their trial is scheduled for August in Federal District Court here. Mr. Keating was convicted last year on separate fraud counts in a California state court and is serving a 10-year prison sentence. Bad Loans to a Hotel
The guilty plea today was from Robert M. Wurzelbacher Jr., who had been a senior vice president of Lincoln's parent company, the American Continental Corporation of Phoenix, and the chief executive of an investment firm owned by Lincoln Savings. Mr. Wurzelbacher, who is 38 years old, is married to the former Elizabeth Keating, one of Mr. Keating's daughters.

[pavyracer]

picantel,

You might be onto something. This can't be a coincidence. Very unusual name. The plot thickens guys.

Samuel J. Wurzelbacher (Joe the Plumber)
Robert M. Wurzelbacher Jr.

[Thor4140]

Looks like McCain was hooking his whole campaign to Joe "the dead beat" Plumber

[daggerkobe]

Punk'd.....

[Tchocky]

This guy is a total fraud. Only question is did he act alone or was he solicited by the McCain campaign to ambush Barack.

[picantel]

This guy is a total fraud. Only question is did he act alone or was he solicited by the McCain campaign to ambush Barack.

I would bet my life savings it was a setup. Republicans are gonna resort to every dirty trick in the book to win or steal(florida deja vu) the election. It would not surprise me one bit if 1 day before the election Bush declared marshall law and then himself supreme dictator of the united states.

[crisp]

total shocker. joe the fraud.

[Jacey]

I want to know how many plumbers make 250k

The average salary is 40k+

[pavyracer]

I want to know how many plumbers make 250k

The average salary is 40k+

Have you ever heard of plumber chippendale dancers?

[ms61853]

Never mind that the story isn't about "Joe the Plumber;" it's about Hussein Osama's answer to the question demonstrating he is a Marxist at heart.

And I am quite sure the lefty media will now attempt to trash him. And they are really grasping at straws to do so. He is LEGALLY working as a plumber because his boss is licensed. (I believe the reason he doesn't have a license is you have to work for years in the trade before you can apply for a license.) And a relative of his knows Charles Keating? What does that have to do with anything?

This proves the MSM is in the tank for Hussein Osama. They try and trash a NOBODY simply because Hussein Osama is too stupid to answer a simple question without revealing himself as a Marxist. Why don't they spend this much time going after Obama over Rezko, Ayers, ACORN, Wright, and his birth certificate? Will that team of lawyers Obama sent into Alaska to dig dirt up on Palin now be sent to do what they can to trash "Joe" because Hussein Osama is too stupid to answer his question?

Frankly, they are not helping Hussein Osama by doing this. All it's doing is keeping the issue in the news.

[ms61853]

Across the blogosphere, we have news that Joe the Plumber, single father, American working guy, aspiring business owner, is about to be shut down and put out of work, to the great glee of Obama supporters.

-snip-

1. HotAir reports that "Toledo Moves to Shut Down Joe the Plumber".

2. NBC affiliate reports that even Joe's boss is not licensed: "If the boss of a company has valid documentation employees are covered. However, NBC-24 learned neither Joe, nor his boss Al Newell, are authorized to do work in Lucas County."

3. MSNBC repeats what I'll shortly show you is incorrect, that boss Newell is not licensed: "And the county Wurzelbacher and Newell live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses, but neither is licensed there, said Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations, which handles plumber licenses in parts of the county outside Toledo."

And so on. Now let me tell you that many news outlets are getting the story right, that Joe's boss, Mr. Newell (in business since 1974, God bless you sir, I'm sure you could never have imagined all this happening to you in America), is in fact licensed in Lucas County. How do I know? Because the State of Ohio's computers told me so, and they would tell the media the same if they looked…like I did.

Mr. Newell is licensed. He is licensed in Lucas County. His license number starts with the digits 329 and then has two more digits. I don't see any need to post more identifying information about innocent people. Search here, plug in the right paramaters, and you can download the list of all licensed plumbers in Lucas County, Ohio. It is not difficult, though you have to provide information about yourself as the requester of the information.

So I got this list of licensees.

Mr. Newell is on that list. And if I read the rules of apprenticeship correctly (I am not an Ohio attorney, and yes I could be reading it wrong), the reported date of November 2003 as the date of filing of Joe's apprenticeship papers seems to be just fine. According to this,

-snip-

So here's the point. Many news outlets have gotten it correct, but some have not and that needs to be corrected. Mr. Newell is licensed, and Joe the Plumber is just short of his five years before he can apply for licensure, but as supervised by Newell, he's o.k..

You can look at screen captures of the entire list of Lucas County licensed plumbers here (part 1) and here (part 2).

[pavyracer]

So what? The Associated Press is now left media and the is the unbiased news.

What a waste of talent you are ms61853.

[BadNina]

You gentlemen are doing what you accuse MS of doing. Taking part of a story and ignoring the rest.

Joe does not make 250,000. He and his boss have discussed his buying the business which would make that amount or more whic would then be eliglible for the tax increase. Polls showed that most people were not comfortable with Obama's answer of spreading the wealth around which is why Joe is now being scrutinized beyond belief and held up to ridicule. The clip of Obama and Joe talking was played long before McCain ever said a word about it.

[ms61853]

So what? The Associated Press is now left media and the is the unbiased news.

What a waste of talent you are ms61853.

Again, why are they trying to even trash "Joe"? He could be the return of Ted Bundy and it doesn't matter. The issue is Obama is too damn stupid to answer a simple question without revealing himself as the Marxist he is.

And so now, the one who dare reveal the messiah's feet of clay must be destroyed. It should show just how evil Obama and his accomplices in the media are, but I doubt it will.

[thejrichshow85]

ms your an idiot, please just shut up already...go post your shit @ your kkk forum.

[ms61853]

ms your an idiot, please just shut up already...go post your shit @ your kkk forum.

Oh, the irony.

[thejrichshow85]

lol is this nerd pointing out mistakes in my sentences...99% of sbr knows i cant spell or write a proper sentence.

so let my nutz go you KkK clown.

[ms61853]

l99% of sbr knows i cant spell or write a proper sentence.

Yet, you have the chutzpah to call other people idiots?

[Sforz]

so he owes back taxes.. like he's alone

[pavyracer]

You gentlemen are doing what you accuse MS of doing. Taking part of a story and ignoring the rest.

Joe does not make 250,000. He and his boss have discussed his buying the business which would make that amount or more whic would then be eliglible for the tax increase. Polls showed that most people were not comfortable with Obama's answer of spreading the wealth around which is why Joe is now being scrutinized beyond belief and held up to ridicule. The clip of Obama and Joe talking was played long before McCain ever said a word about it.

Nina,

You missed the original point of my post (the bold highlighted sentence). “Joe the Plumber” is not licensed. As a licensed PE I find this unacceptable. Anyone can claim they are a plumber, cook, electrician, engineer, accountant, etc. If you are not licensed it is bad for the consumer and bad for business.

Secondly, “Joe the Plumber” owes back taxes. What kind of a message does this give to American voters when the flagship of McCain’s campaign is a deadbeat tax evater?

[thejrichshow85]

ms people like you see a black person and run , tuck your chain in , hide your watch or tighten the grip on your wallet ...it's idiot's like you who don't give a **** who's running as long as the "*****" don't win your happy ! well its clear obama is our next president so

[ms61853]

ms people like you see a black person and run , tuck your chain in , hide your watch or tighten the grip on your wallet

Maybe. It depends on the circumstances. I am, after all, a pragmatic person:

http://columbiatribune.com/2007/Aug/20070829Comm004.asp

[picantel]

You gentlemen are doing what you accuse MS of doing. Taking part of a story and ignoring the rest.

Joe does not make 250,000. He and his boss have discussed his buying the business which would make that amount or more whic would then be eliglible for the tax increase. Polls showed that most people were not comfortable with Obama's answer of spreading the wealth around which is why Joe is now being scrutinized beyond belief and held up to ridicule. The clip of Obama and Joe talking was played long before McCain ever said a word about it.

He and his boss are not discussing buying the business. Come on Nina what is up with you lately. You are talking about stuff without actually looking it up. Joe the Fraud said in an interview with his own words that he was not buying the business he just 'wanted to know'. The guy is a registered republican who tried to set up Obama and now the facts of his fraud are coming out. When they asked him on air who he was voting for he said it was private and could not tell. What a ****ing joke. The guy is a plant and a liar. I smell Rove all over this.

[ms61853]

Nina,

You missed the original point of my post (the bold highlighted sentence). “Joe the Plumber” is not licensed. As a licensed PE I find this unacceptable. Anyone can claim they are a plumber, cook, electrician, engineer, accountant, etc. If you are not licensed it is bad for the consumer and bad for business.

Secondly, “Joe the Plumber” owes back taxes. What kind of a message does this give to American voters when the flagship of McCain’s campaign is a deadbeat tax evater?

The whole statement by these Toldeo bureaucrats is misleading. Joe can’t be licensed until he has 5 years experience. Which according to them he doesn’t have yet. So it would be illiegal for him to be licensed.

LICENSE QUALIFICATION PROCESS

The Ohio Construction Industry Licensing Board (O.C.I.L.B.), Department of Commerce, Division of Industrial Compliance, issues state commercial licenses to the following contractors: electrical, HVAC, hydronics, plumbing, and refrigeration. To receive a state license, an applicant must meet the following requirements: 1) be at least 18 years of age; 2) be a United States citizen or a legal alien-must provide proof of being a legal alien; 3) either have been a tradesperson in the type of licensed trade for which the application is filed for not less than five years immediately prior to the date the application is filed, currently be a registered engineer in this state with three years of business experience in the construction industry in the trade for which the engineer is applying to take the examination, or have other experience acceptable to the appropriate section of the board; 4) not have been convicted of or plead guilty to a misdemeanor involving moral turpitude or of any felony; 5) pass the examination in the trade; 6) carry minimum $500,000 contractor liability coverage; 7) pay the applicable fees.

Also… Toledo has no legal standing concerning licensing as far as the rest of the county is concerned. Outside Toledo, state or county regulation controls. Joe and his employer are not based in Toledo. And Joe lives in Lucas county.

The Toledo board folks are complaining he hasn’t brought his apprencticeship to a close. But it doesn’t look like he’s passed the time limit. Of course he could just pay off the union and get it.. but then that would be illegal.

As far as his taxes, anybody could end up owing back taxes simply because you interpret the rules differently than the IRS (and the IRS workers are idiots who don't even know their own rules). I've owed back taxes before and simply worked out a payment arrangement with the IRS. We don't know the circumstances behind why "Joe" owes them.

[ms61853]

He and his boss are not discussing buying the business. Come on Nina what is up with you lately. You are talking about stuff without actually looking it up. Joe the Fraud said in an interview with his own words that he was not buying the business he just 'wanted to know'. The guy is a registered republican who tried to set up Obama and now the facts of his fraud are coming out. When they asked him on air who he was voting for he said it was private and could not tell. What a ****ing joke. The guy is a plant and a liar. I smell Rove all over this.

This is all a distraction from the real issue -- Obama is too damn stupid to answer a simple question on taxes without revealing his true Marxist nature.

[pavyracer]

Will you hire someone to fix your plumbing that is not licensed and has less than 5 years experience? I wouldn't and neither 90% of Americans.

Will you give a loan of $250,000 to someone to start a plumbing business that is not licensed and has less than 5 years experience? I wouldn't and neither 90% of the US Banks. Maybe a loan shark at 50% interest rate after they take your family as hostages.

[ms61853]

Will you hire someone to fix your plumbing that is not licensed and has less than 5 years experience? I wouldn't and neither 90% of Americans.

He is an apprentice under the supervision of a licensed plumber. He will be eligible to apply for a license next month.

You mentioned you were a PE. You have to have 4 years experience before you can apply to become one. Did you not know engineering before you became certified?

Will you give a loan of $250,000 to someone to start a plumbing business that is not licensed and has less than 5 years experience? I wouldn't and neither 90% of the US Banks. Maybe a loan shark at 50% interest rate after they take your family as hostages.

He will soon be eligible to be licensed.

[picantel]

This is all a distraction from the real issue -- Obama is too damn stupid to answer a simple question on taxes without revealing his true Marxist nature.

A distraction right? So far you have blamed Obama for Kenya, the stock market, gas prices, mortgage crisis, and who knows what else. A first term senator is responsible for all of this and not our joke of a president? The problem with stupid people is they think everyone else is even dumber than they are. The republicans planting a scumbag who lied repeatedly and then was caught is a problem. The so called right wing moral authority has repeatedly gone a bit short on morals themselves.

[daggerkobe]

Working as a plumber without a license is both immoral and ILLEGAL.

I hope this guy goes to jail.

[BadNina]

This issue has nothing to do with Joe. Obama knocked on his door. It was Obama's answer that should be the issue.

[JC]

You know what is a distraction?

All of the Ayers nonsense, that's a distraction.

As for Joe the plumber, this is the last act of a desperate campaign, and they are now scrambling because their plant got outed.

F Joe the plumber! He's not so innocent here.

[pavyracer]

He is an apprentice under the supervision of a licensed plumber. He will be eligible to apply for a license next month.

You mentioned you were a PE. You have to have 4 years experience before you can apply to become one. Did you not know engineering before you became certified?



He will soon be eligible to be licensed.

I never claimed to be licensed or endagered public safety while I was in training and neither I aspired to be a consultant before I was licensed.

Without passing the plumbing license exam "Joe the fake Plumber" is as good as an underage driver without a license.